EPTAlso, if the school went ahead with the graduation prayer anyway, is there any grounds to prosecute the school for unconstitutional acts? It would allow any Jewish, Islamic, Atheist etc. people in other areas to have a previous case to refer to if this occurs in a different area - I would fully understand if the kid did not want to have anything further to do with this 'shitstorm' as he worded it.
Student gets ostracized for refusing to pray - Page 42
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Robellicose
England245 Posts
Also, if the school went ahead with the graduation prayer anyway, is there any grounds to prosecute the school for unconstitutional acts? It would allow any Jewish, Islamic, Atheist etc. people in other areas to have a previous case to refer to if this occurs in a different area - I would fully understand if the kid did not want to have anything further to do with this 'shitstorm' as he worded it. | ||
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mdma-_-
Nauru1213 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:38 Robellicose wrote: WOW I feel sorry for how this escalated for the kid, especially because he's only following American law. I'm shocked that the Christian community in the area has reacted in such an un-Christian way to the guy. What happened to turn the other cheek? Also, if the school went ahead with the graduation prayer anyway, is there any grounds to prosecute the school for unconstitutional acts? It would allow any Jewish, Islamic, Atheist etc. people in other areas to have a previous case to refer to if this occurs in a different area - I would fully understand if the kid did not want to have anything further to do with this 'shitstorm' as he worded it. its a very christian way to react tbh | ||
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Jayjay54
Germany2296 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:26 Olinim wrote: "Once it is understood that atheism is merely the absence of belief in any gods, it becomes evident that agnosticism is not, as many assume, a “third way” between atheism and theism. The presence of a belief in a god and the absence of a belief in a god exhaust all of the possibilities" actually, it is a third position. agnoticism does not judge the likeliness of a god nor refuses god or other higher instances. they just say that they don't know. did u ever see a poll? the answers are usually "Yes", "No" and "I don't know" (or similar). Three distinct positions. I consider myself an agnostic. and not at all an atheist. Meaning of Life and Life itself is pretty hard to explain. Where does everything come from? Why am I here? etc. All question not answered by scientist. Even the Big Bang does not explain why everything is as it is. Why particles behave as they do. Gravitrons, Higgs Bosons or whatever. Where do the rules come from? And if you can point that out, I'll probably answer with " and why is that?" and you would have the next task. Physics does a decent job of explaining rules. but not where they come from. So whenever somebody asks me about all this I just say I don't freakin know, how can I? and this position is absolutely distinct from there can't be a god. Cause there can be one. or two. or we're just an experiment. or this is a pretty cool video game of the future and you wake up when u die. And if they ask me what I think is the most possible solution is, I'll answer with " I DON'T FREAKIN KNOW" and get me a beer. e: added stuff | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:35 Agathon wrote: A majority did it 70 years ago and there are many graveyards full of young americans in my country prooving that a bigger majority won, again. The majority allows, or forbid. That's why i'm afraid one day, what append in Europe last century appens again, somewhere. Soon or lately. What? I'm talking about America, not Europe. Which actually a valid point, because that's the whole point of making the distinction of Majority Rules vs Minority Rights. We didn't have that before all that shit happened, and we realized we needed it. As in: The Majority doesn't rule in America, not when Minority Rights are at stake. That's what the ACLU does. Upholds the rights of people that the majority want silenced, whether it be gays, atheists, or nazis. | ||
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.Sic.
Korea (South)497 Posts
On the other hand, if you are of a different religion and praying to a Christian God offends you, then that would be a problem. In the end though, maybe he finds it problematic that religion plays such a big role in the lives of people round him and he wanted to make a statement by opposing the prayer. | ||
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CatNzHat
United States1599 Posts
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
What the fuck is wrong with people. I mean.. what's it matter? Really, what does a prayer change? That said the reaction from the community is even more mind boggling. Tards on both sides of the fence. | ||
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Olinim
4044 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:40 Jayjay54 wrote: actually, it is a third position. agnoticism does not judge the likeliness of a god nor refuses god or other higher instances. they just say that they don't know. did u ever see a poll? the answers are usually "Yes", "No" and "I don't know" (or similar). I consider myself an agnostic. and not an atheist. Meaning of Life and Life itself is pretty hard to explain. Where does everything come from? Why am I here? etc. All question not answered by scientist. Even the Big Bang does not explain why everything is as it is. Why particles behave as they do. Gravitrons, Higgs Bosons or whatever. Where do the rules come from? And if you can point that out, I'll probably answer with and why is that and you would have the next task. So whenever somebody asks me about all this I just say I don't freakin know, how can I? and this position is absolutely distinct from there can't be a god. Cause there can be one. or two. or we're just an experiment. or this is a pretty cool video game of the future and you wake up when u die. And if they ask me what I think is the most possible solution is, I'll answer with " I DON'T FREAKIN KNOW" and get me a beer 'I don't know" Isn't a position, you either hold a belief or you have an absence of one, whether you refuse to acknowledge this is irrelevant. Atheism doesn't claim to know either, it's merely "I have an absence of a belief in God, but it is not certain that one does not exist" You sound to me like an agnostic atheist. You obviously have a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism, what with the quote"there can not be a God", that's not what it is. "distinct from the position there can't be a god" Like I've repeated several times, not atheism. | ||
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Tony Campolo
New Zealand364 Posts
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:44 Tony Campolo wrote: It's actually shocking how many people on TL are Christians and proud of it, and argue in these religious threads claiming that these are only cases of 'extreme' fundamentalists. Anyone who is a true Christian shouldn't be playing Starcraft but instead spending their lives trying to save souls. Imagine this, that if you truly believe that someone who doesn't believe in God is going to go to Hell for all eternity, then it's actually grossly irresponsible and callous to be spending your life playing computer games when all these people are going to Hell if you don't somehow manage to convince them to give their lives to God. All it shows is that they don't truly realise the extent of the horrificacy of what they claim to believe. You really should read up on Christianity, I don't think you have a good grasp of what it means to be Christian in the 21st century. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:41 .Sic. wrote: Just to be a devil's advocate, a traditional prayer should mean nothing more than any other traditional ceremonies they have at graduation to an atheist. Think about it, wearing a cap and gown is just another tradition that isn't necessary, and since an atheist merely believes there is no god, a prayer would be just another silly unnecessary activity. On the other hand, if you are of a different religion and praying to a Christian God offends you, then that would be a problem. In the end though, maybe he finds it problematic that religion plays such a big role in the lives of people round him and he wanted to make a statement by opposing the prayer. It's not about fighting tradition, its about the first amendment. Wearing a cap or gown isn't representative of any particular religion is therefore shrugged off. Saying a prayer, and therefore being a governmental institution giving particular favour to a specific religion, is. Since you can't cover all religions during these ceremonies (should we get a reading from the people to believe in Jedi, too?), you shouldn't favour any. | ||
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Vore210
Ireland256 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:45 vyyye wrote: You really should read up on Christianity, I don't think you have a good grasp of what it means to be Christian in the 21st century. Oh we all know what it means to be christian in the 21st century. It's to call yourself christian but not act like one. Christian-LITE. All of the privileges, none of the responsibility. Just another cult. A spoiled club. | ||
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deepfield1
United States373 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:40 Jayjay54 wrote: actually, it is a third position. agnoticism does not judge the likeliness of a god nor refuses god or other higher instances. they just say that they don't know. did u ever see a poll? the answers are usually "Yes", "No" and "I don't know" (or similar). Three distinct positions. I consider myself an agnostic. and not at all an atheist. Wow, you managed to completely not understand the post you were replying to :| Do you believe in god? If yes, you are theist. If no, you are atheist = lack of belief. It's nothing to do with likeliness or the possibility of the supernatural. | ||
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zedi
165 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:43 vyyye wrote: If I was him I'd go and pretend I was praying instead of trying to act like a little douchebag. Jesus Christ, some people. I haven't been Christian in any part of my life but I didn't whine when I was asked to participate in Christian traditions. What the fuck is wrong with people. I mean.. what's it matter? Really, what does a prayer change? That said the reaction from the community is even more mind boggling. Tards on both sides of the fence. Acting against illegality and immorality is acting like a douchebag? Guess I'd rather be a douchebag then. | ||
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RoosterSamurai
Japan2108 Posts
This applies only to Louisiana. | ||
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scatmango2
United States408 Posts
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:44 Tony Campolo wrote: It's actually shocking how many people on TL are Christians and proud of it, and argue in these religious threads claiming that these are only cases of 'extreme' fundamentalists. Anyone who is a true Christian shouldn't be playing Starcraft but instead spending their lives trying to save souls. Imagine this, that if you truly believe that someone who doesn't believe in God is going to go to Hell for all eternity, then it's actually grossly irresponsible and callous to be spending your life playing computer games when all these people are going to Hell if you don't somehow manage to convince them to give their lives to God. All it shows is that they don't truly realise the extent of the horrificacy of what they claim to believe. Oh please with the 1600 religious image, that shit isn't how it is nowadays, only nutters would treat religion that way. As for the whole incident, religious people tend to act in those fucked up ways pretty often, i doubt any1 would have given him trouble if he just didn't pray stead of the "i'm gona report you to w/e" thing. When you step on many people's toes expect them to step back, it won't be as harmless for you the more they are. At any rate the school/parents acted waaaay out of balance and so did the kid, furthermore i'd bet even though he's beeing victimised now he must've had a very anoying way of "standing up for his beliefs" to manage to piss off everybody like that. Doubt an entire functioning comunity would go balistic like that one somebody for no reason, even when provoked. | ||
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Bibdy
United States3481 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:44 Olinim wrote: 'I don't know" Isn't a position, you either hold a belief or you have an absence of one, whether you refuse to acknowledge this is irrelevant. Atheism doesn't claim to know either, it's merely "I have an absence of a belief in God, but it is not certain that one does not exist" You sound to me like an agnostic atheist. You obviously have a fundamental misunderstanding of atheism, what with the quote"there can not be a God", that's not what it is. "distinct from the position there can't be a god" Like I've repeated several times, not atheism. Of course its a position. It's just not a belief, stemmed from faith. It is, in effect, the absence of faith. So, does that mean that atheists are a step above agnostics in the eyes of religion, because they also believe in something without evidence? To clarify Theist: Steadfast belief in God, without any evidence to show for it. Atheist: Steadfast belief there is no higher power, without any evidence to show for it. Agnostic: Does not choose either path, due to lack of evidence in either direction. Or do I have that wrong? That's my current understanding. | ||
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vyyye
Sweden3917 Posts
On May 28 2011 00:49 zedi wrote: Acting against illegality and immorality is acting like a douchebag? Guess I'd rather be a douchebag then. If the kid didn't have to become a real party pooper there would never have been an issue. Do you really think he gave two fucks about upholding the law? I can see his anger considering how retarded the community around him seems to be, but come on, he knew nothing good would come out of it. Teens love to be rebellious for the sake of being rebellious. | ||
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