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Cambium
United States16368 Posts
Often, students are escorted by police, especially if students don't think they will arrive at the test centre on time. Since the test is almost a life-or-death exam for students, the preparation for it is so secure and strict that since its beginning from 1993, Suneung questions were never leaked. Questions are made by chosen professors and teachers, who are locked in a hotel with blacked windows, no communication and a full library of questions until the end of Suneung. This is hardcore | ||
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Nothingtosay
United States875 Posts
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:26 dreamsmasher wrote: on average yes, when you compare the top with the top no. in fact i would argue at the top, westerners shine a bit more. thats probably true, but i feel like having lots of good students is more important to the german government than having as many toplevel students as possible our final secondary-school examinations always get easier so that more people pass them and everyone has the possibility to go to university. i think its too easy nowadays. everyone is able to do it without making a real effort. | ||
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AutomatonOmega
United States706 Posts
I'm glad they're doing something about it, I just hope it's not too late. | ||
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Kamais_Ookin
Canada4218 Posts
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OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:24 Irrational_Animal wrote: @ imperator: does the Korean sýstem produce better students (at academic level)? Personally I`m not really convinced. Hard to objectively measure what country produces "better students," but tests like these provide some light into international comparison of education systems. Korea has always been ranked around the top ever since these were conducted. http://ourtimes.wordpress.com/pisa/ | ||
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Irrational_Animal
Germany1059 Posts
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Antisocialmunky
United States5913 Posts
Its almost as hard as working under Kespa. *On Topic* A lot has been talked about or proposed but its a cultural thing that expresses itself in these sorts of expectations so its a difficult if not impossible thing to change. :\ | ||
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mattenno
United States26 Posts
does the family shame them and disown them? | ||
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Zooper31
United States5713 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:15 isM wrote: 3 elementary school kids is pretty sickening. Also the system of having to pay more for tuition for each hundredth of a point below 3.0 is awfully ridiculous. Agreed the part where 3 elementary kids committed suicide is what shocked me. The oldest kids in elementary school are what like 12? How can someone that young be so depressed to even think about killing themselves? Let alone know what/how to go about doing it. | ||
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UFO
582 Posts
Its just my opinion but I think this culture is very aritificial. Its like a mummy that is surrounded by the bandages of all those alleged achievements and succeses but if you strip it away and see where it comes from and what is behind it - you will see the frail, decayed skin beneath. This heartless, sensless competition instead of benevolent cooperation and support. The very foundation of this culture is fear and judgement. Most of it`s values, in my opinion, are artificial and unauthentic - for example, not rarely the "humility" or the desire to do good, or the desire to contribute comes out of fear of being judged - not from love and wisdom. In my opinion, this is a slavery or almost a slavery, though well hidden behind the veils of alleged succes, achievements and cultural justification. Of course this is a generalization, maybe a vast one but nontheless a relevant one. | ||
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FinestHour
United States18466 Posts
Under the so-called punitive tuition program, a bad semester could cost a student’s family thousands of dollars. This seems so brutal, I can't imagine what would happen if a system like that were put into effect here in the US. No one knows what real pressure is like until they go to a school there I guess. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:45 Irrational_Animal wrote: @ Dreamasher: I think there might be a small difference between american asians and the typical Korean student though. From what I´ve seen, it`s very hard to enter a top notch Korean university but once you are in (given that you pay the tuition fees^^) it`s hard to drop out. So most Korean students neglect their hard working attitude and laissez faire takes over. At least until they reach their final year where they have to absolve language certificates for future jobs. What`s more importnt is that you are good at networking. Also critical thinking or good essay writing skills are not really required in the Korean system. what i'm saying that though is that yes as an asian american i probably only went through a fraction of what an actual asian goes through but the attitude and culture is still the same. on average our parents are more strict and it really takes a lot of effort in order to have a 'balanced' life. i don't want to overgeneralize too much, but on average i would say white parents are more supportive of their children's interests and believe a bit more in 'innate' potential, whereas asians (at least immigrants) generally don't believe those things matter. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:25 dreamsmasher wrote: suicide is also one of the (most? not exactly sure but top 2) leading causes deaths amongst asian americans, males in particular. I'm going to guess you meant asian americans below a certain age (I hope?) | ||
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:26 dreamsmasher wrote: on average yes, when you compare the top with the top no. in fact i would argue at the top, westerners shine a bit more. asians take a very different stance on education from westerners at it reflects. asian americans have higher median income than whites, statistically score higher on standardized tests, and we have an overwhelming presence at any top school, this all within ONE generation. i'm not going to list the negatives, there are many that I can list but I would go into them too much here. i would say 95% of my friends who were asian who i grew up with went to either top state universities or ivy league caliber schools. but i would say most of my white (er non asian) friends who were also strong academically were much stronger all around. NO. Don't confuse the Korean Academic system with Korean culture. Korean universities and Asian universities in general are bad compared to the top US/European university. We all know it. That is why Asians study so hard to get there and why the OP puts such emphasis on students getting into the top 3 universities. The top 3 are nowhere near as good as Americas top 3 but top 3 in Korea is still better than average korean universities that dont even have an international presence. If you are asking as to whether children raised that way are better academically then I wouldnt know. University's prove their strength by the research they have done and we know that the best universities arent from Korea. I don't know the ethnicity of the people that have done the research and even if they were all asian I wouldnt make a link to one race or culture being superior cos those Asians may have grown up in the country that they study. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:22 T0fuuu wrote: And wow at Suhs program... it doesnt work because students are graded with the bell curve. So you are punishing the majority of students no matter what you do. Great scheme for making money though. If you run a scheme like that you shouldn't mark to a bell curve. It is possible and in many cases preferable to mark based on absolute rather than relative attainment. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:48 UFO wrote: So what of all this that comes out of this studying, hard work, all those achievements, all of it, if there is no love ? Its just my opinion but I think this culture is very aritificial. Its like a mummy that is surrounded by the bandages of all those alleged achievements and succeses but if you strip it away and see where it comes from and what is behind it - you will see the frail, decayed skin beneath. This heartless, sensless competition instead of benevolent cooperation and support. The very foundation of this culture is fear and judgement. Most of it`s values, in my opinion, are artificial and unauthentic - for example, most often the "humility" or the desire to do 'good' or the desire to "contribute" comes out of fear of being judged - not from love and wisdom. In my opinion, this is a slavery or almost a slavery, though well hidden behind the veils of alleged succes, achievements and cultural justification. Of course this is a generalization but a relevant one. i think you are being too harsh here. it is certainly more complicated than that, i never felt UNLOVED by my parents, but i grew to understand that people are deterministic in many ways, it is indeed extremely difficult to see above your culture and make the choices that are actually best for you. you cannot just openly judge a culture and say its fundamental principles are wrong just because you don't understand them. there are positives and negatives of both cultures, most of my asian friends are pretty well adjusted -- but at the same time if you asked me if i were to raise my kids in the EXACT same manner? the answer would be no. | ||
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dreamsmasher
816 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:51 T0fuuu wrote: NO. Don't confuse the Korean Academic system with Korean culture. Korean universities and Asian universities in general are bad compared to the top US/European university. We all know it. That is why Asians study so hard to get there and why the OP puts such emphasis on students getting into the top 3 universities. The top 3 are nowhere near as good as Americas top 3 but top 3 in Korea is still better than average korean universities that dont even have an international presence. If you are asking as to whether children raised that way are better academically then I wouldnt know. University's prove their strength by the research they have done and we know that the best universities arent from Korea. I don't know the ethnicity of the people that have done the research and even if they were all asian I wouldnt make a link to one race or culture being superior cos those Asians may have grown up in the country that they study. your comments don't really reflect what i was saying at all. | ||
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Z3kk
4099 Posts
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Dali.
New Zealand689 Posts
On May 24 2011 08:44 OneOther wrote: Hard to objectively measure what country produces "better students," but tests like these provide some light into international comparison of education systems. Korea has always been ranked around the top ever since these were conducted. http://ourtimes.wordpress.com/pisa/ Firstly yay for New Zealand. What's curious is our secondary school system is pretty god awful. From my experience (going to two high schools, one of which was probably top 5 in the country) we got very little homework and were hardly penalised if we didn't complete it. The system of assessment is widely disliked and teachers are vocal about its shortcomings. There is hardly a sense of urgency to get good marks, most are happy coasting on "achieved" which is essentially a 50%-65% mark. Hell, I even failed my final year of high school simply because I had already had university entrance. Looking back that was pretty stupid, but it does demonstrate the sense of disregard New Zealand has for secondary school education. Curious to see such a contrast be relatively insignificant in raw results. Maybe there's a better explanation. | ||
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