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Tibbles
United States21 Posts
Smoking is a personal choice, and I'm fairly certain everyone knows about the health risks, but it's their choice to make, regardless of how you feel about it. People supporting it in this thread seem to be doing so on the basis of "it's irritating.". Most smokers are quite considerate of non-smokers, considering the world we live in. If they happen to be smoking next to you, a simple "could you please not do that here" will likely get them to move. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:39 jaydubz wrote: We have rules in place to prevent cars from driving on sidewalks. actually you're so used to car and industrial pollution that your brain doesnt register it anymore. its still there, and its incredibly potent. take a country child to somewhere like london city and they will start coughing and gagging and feel ill constantly, because they are not used to the fumes. i know this because it happened to me and i remember it | ||
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zasda
381 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:37 Ghostcom wrote: Are you also pro banning all cars in New York? They harm you a lot more than walking behind a person who smokes... you probably dont mind a person walking in front of you throwing coffee or shooting cum on you either? | ||
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Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:37 Ghostcom wrote: Are you also pro banning all cars in New York? They harm you a lot more than walking behind a person who smokes... Yeah totally for it. However that change will probably take longer to implement for obvious reasons. Cars are are a huge trouble for the planet in more ways then one and I really hope they get replaced one day in the future. cigarettes already have plenty of viable replacements that won't harm others while being used. For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snus | ||
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jaydubz
21 Posts
actually you're so used to car and industrial pollution that your brain doesnt register it anymore. its still there, and its incredibly potent. take a country child to somewhere like london city and they will start coughing and gagging and feel ill constantly, because they are not used to the fumes. i know this because it happened to me and i remember it Actually my point is that we have designated driving areas. If you don't want to inhale exhaust smoke, you can simply choose not to stand behind cars in the street. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:45 jaydubz wrote: Actually my point is that we have designated driving areas. If you don't want to inhale exhaust smoke, you can simply choose not to stand behind cars in the street. are you trolling? the fumes from cars and buildings cover the entire city. ![[image loading]](http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/12/29/world/29china.650.2.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/smog-in-new-york-city_100182222_l.jpg) these are just pictures of course. most fumes are not noticeable to the naked eye. did you know that? | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Cyba
Romania221 Posts
If they baned all non electric cars now that would have actually helped overall health. | ||
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Musclecore
Sweden103 Posts
PS. I smoke. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:37 BroodjeBaller wrote: I never argued it not being harmful. I argued the effects of it are so completely abyssmal and neglible that it is not an argument that holds water to ban something which removes the privileges of people. There is a difference. It is harmful, but how harmful? Harmful in the way that it actually makes a difference? I doubt it, cosidering how much more dangerous pollution is in general. SHS outdoors has not been shown or proven by anything of what people are linking, they are not even mentioned. first paragraph "When non-smokers are exposed to secondhand smoke it is called involuntary smoking or passive smoking. Non-smokers who breathe in secondhand smoke take in nicotine and other toxic chemicals just like smokers do. The more secondhand smoke you are exposed to, the higher the level of these harmful chemicals in your body." You have to be quite ignorant to be believe that when you smoke outdoors its suddenly not harmful. It might be less harmful than smoking indoors because the concentration of cancer-causing agents is lower, but its still harmful. Its not a matter of opinion. Its all just one big probability calculation whether or not these agents damage your DNA and cause cancer. Besides this, when you think about it there isnt even a good reason for smoking to exist in the first place. Its useless and doesnt have any benefits. The only reason it still exists is because of the taxes. So no I am not ignorant, I've read through almost every "evidence" people link here, and refuted how they use them to support their argument. Seeing how I've backed all my views by logic and shown several times what a poor argument SHS outdoors is for a ban for smoking in parks, you calling me ignorant either makes me think you haven't read all my posts or haven't read up on this yourself. You can have your opinion, that any smoke should not go to other people and that is fine, but I draw the line of when things should be banned another place. TLDR; I am not arguing against SHS being harmful. I'm arguing that using SHS outdoors as an argument to support the ban really holds no water, because it has not been proved or showed that outdoors SHS affects other people in any bad way that is noticable. Then it is of my opinion that it is not enough of a reason to remove others privileges because of it. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:56 Musclecore wrote: I think it's kind of silly, and that they should out right just illegalize smoking tobacco right away, since that seems to be the long term goal anyway. The attacks and the stigmatizing way of doing it right now is far too fascistic and inhumane for my likings. Keeping it legal at this point is basically a kick in the face of all that smoke. PS. I smoke. except that the people in positions of power are the ones profiting from it, so its never ever going to change. but you knew that, im not being condescending | ||
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jaydubz
21 Posts
Would I support the ban of all tobacco smoking? No. Comparing the automotive industry to the cigarette industry is a bad argument anyway. One actually brings benefits to society. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
So is ice cream. It feels good, infinitely more so when you are addicted to nicotine. I would compare it to the feeling you get chugging a tall glass of water when you are extremely thirsty. But you can get it every couple hours. Manages stress and helps kill time. Get more breaks at work ;p. Negatives? Yeah kills you, bad breath, yellow teeth aging quicker... But go eat another cheese burger ill have a king size stick of cancer and endorphins. And we might both get hit by a car tomorrow. Should people be subjected to second hand smoke? No. A university campus is crowded and full of sensitive young people who can hardly remember their mothers lighting up in pizza hut after the buffet. Perhaps their bodies are more susceptible to these few parts per million in passing breaths than those people of the centuries past where there were no laws. But these sensitive people do not enjoy the smell. My university imposed a 10m from any entrance law that is reasonable and generally unobserved. I am a courteous smoker, i smoke in smoking areas and avoid walking and smoking down busy pathways. People should be courteous but they are not and thus implementing rules to make them so is reasonable. Smoking in your car is taking the initiative to isolate yourself from those that may be offended and banning such is excessive and unnecessary. Rules for smoking in public are reasonable. This set of rules is to strict. | ||
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DatBoiRijad
100 Posts
On May 24 2011 14:14 VIB wrote: Yes, a country where people are free to walk in the park free of cigarette butts and without having to smell others smoking. Yeah, and everyone is screaming LEGALIZE MARIJUANA! And when the argument is made that people will be smoking that outside more and more, the stoners say "suck it up." I hate hypocrites. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
On May 25 2011 00:00 jaydubz wrote: While the automotive industry probably causes more harm than second hand smoke, it is heavily regulated and the movement to cleaner energy sources is being made. Would I support the ban of all gasoline powered automobiles? No. Would I support the ban of all tobacco smoking? No. Comparing the automotive industry to the cigarette industry is a bad argument anyway. One actually brings benefits to society. you just compared them by saying one brings benefits... if you ask a smoker if giving them a cigarette would be beneficial to them, most would say "give me that damn ciggy, i wanna smoke it!" all we're saying is that cig smoke is negligable compared to other fumes, and not to be deluded that the "smell" of ciggies when you walk behind someone in the street is particular significant compared to the "smell" of thousands of tonnes of smoke coming out of everything else that your brain has gotten used to oh and you know what, if someone is smoking at the bus stop and you feel disgusted by it, then you should say "excuse me get that fucking cigarette out of my face". they will move. you dont need damn law for this shit people, its pathetic | ||
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Clearout
Norway1060 Posts
On May 25 2011 00:04 ComaDose wrote: You have a very decent middle ground standing, which I wholesomely approve of. Life of lively to live to life of full life thx to cigarettes? To people saying smoking is useless: So is ice cream. It feels good, infinitely more so when you are addicted to nicotine. I would compare it to the feeling you get chugging a tall glass of water when you are extremely thirsty. But you can get it every couple hours. Manages stress and helps kill time. Get more breaks at work ;p. Negatives? Yeah kills you, bad breath, yellow teeth aging quicker... But go eat another cheese burger ill have a king size stick of cancer and endorphins. And we might both get hit by a car tomorrow. Should people be subjected to second hand smoke? No. A university campus is crowded and full of sensitive young people who can hardly remember their mothers lighting up in pizza hut after the buffet. Perhaps their bodies are more susceptible to these few parts per million in passing breaths than those people of the centuries past where there were no laws. But these sensitive people do not enjoy the smell. My university imposed a 10m from any entrance law that is reasonable and generally unobserved. I am a courteous smoker, i smoke in smoking areas and avoid walking and smoking down busy pathways. People should be courteous but they are not and thus implementing rules to make them so is reasonable. Smoking in your car is taking the initiative to isolate yourself from those that may be offended and banning such is excessive and unnecessary. Rules for smoking in public are reasonable. This set of rules is to strict.  | ||
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Walls
United States172 Posts
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kochujang
Germany1226 Posts
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Musclecore
Sweden103 Posts
On May 24 2011 23:59 FFGenerations wrote: except that the people in positions of power are the ones profiting from it, so its never ever going to change. but you knew that, im not being condescending True that. But still, the whole movement against smoking got some water on their wheels in these times. Also, I guess I'm not as fatalistic as you are when it comes to overthrowing powers though. As far as I know, many companies have started manufacturing and selling snus instead of smoking tobacco. At least I've heard they do over in the USA. (And they can't in Europe/EU because it's illegal for some arbitrary reason) Anyway, getting too far from the point, so I'll digress. My point was that once the zeitgeist have declared that we shouldn't smoke, it won't matter if people in power profit from it. If you have a democratic political system worth the name, it will get illegalized. | ||
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