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Keep it civil guys.
Alright I am sick of warning people: Trolling, flame baiting, and derailing will result in insta bans.
The same goes for conspiracy theorists and stupidity generally.
Confirmation was as follows
- On-site DNA test which came back as 99% positive.
- photos of face sent to CIA and confirmed with photo analysis
- confirmed by 20 year old wife who live in pakistan.
This thread is specifically dedicated to the details surrounding the raid/his death. |
On May 03 2011 02:42 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:25 BlackFlag wrote:On May 03 2011 02:22 thebigdonkey wrote:On May 03 2011 02:20 BlackFlag wrote:On May 03 2011 02:09 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 02:00 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:58 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. You can't win a thread, nor can you win at politics without bludgeoning the opposing viewpoint to death. Which is, incidentally, how matters were generally dealt with in the last 5,000 years of human history and even to this day in some parts of the world. The fact that we can doubt, debate, argue, accuse, say our piece and generally be a bunch of assholes to one another without resorting to violence means we've come a long way. I didn't literally mean "win" a thread, the point is you reading through the posts so many people have unrealistic points of view its not worth arguing it. Absolutely. That some people are quicker to claim a conspiracy, rather than join in the closure and excitement everyone is feeling after the first piece of genuinely good news any administration has announced since the fall of the Berlin wall is quite sad, but that's their choice. The way I see it, Obama took a huge gamble. It could have been a political disaster if it turned out the intel was wrong. If Bin Laden was there, but wasn't killed, he could gloat once more. If they announced his death without near 100% certainty, we'd already be seeing videos of the guy announcing his continued existence. Not only is the world rid of a mass murderer, its greatly weakened the guy's hand-built network. Apparently nobody in Al Qaeda makes a pact with a cause - they made a personal pact with Osama. With him out of the picture, where does that leave the rest of Al Qaeda? The war is far from over, but the side of Peace just won a great battle. If someone prefers to wallow in continued misery and doubt after the fact, just let them. are you for real?! I'm not some anti-american ass, but you call the american mitlitary, the side of peace? are you for fuckin real? two wars, with no reason, where millions died. the terrorists coudn't even do this in the next 10 years. Umm millions? I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration. go look it up. K I did, and you're wrong. In Afghanistan: 14,000-34,000 approx. civilian deaths 11,758 deaths for the NATO-Afghani Security coalition ~38,000 killed or captured Insurgents Total in Afghanistan: 63,000-83,000In Iraq: Coalition of Countries including: United States Iraq Peshmerga Awakening Councils Withdrawn forces: United Kingdom (2003–09) Australia (2003–09) Romania (2003–09) Poland (2003–08) South Korea (2003–08) Italy (2003–06) Georgia (2003–08) Ukraine (2003–08) Netherlands (2003–05) Spain (2003–04) Denmark (2003–07) Casualties: 24,111 Insurgents and Iraq under Saddam Hussein's casualties: 38,778-70,278 Total in Iraq: 62,889-94389Total over the two wars: 125,889-177,389
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
Estimated 1 million violent deaths as a result of the conflict. Including 105,000 documented civilian deaths.
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On May 03 2011 02:42 mikyaJ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:25 BlackFlag wrote:On May 03 2011 02:22 thebigdonkey wrote:On May 03 2011 02:20 BlackFlag wrote:On May 03 2011 02:09 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 02:00 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:58 Bibdy wrote:On May 03 2011 01:54 uSnAmplified wrote:On May 03 2011 01:51 CurLy[] wrote:
Are people seriously mad that he was killed?
Seriously?
Like for real?
Fuck you guys man... he killed THOUSANDS of people. Rot in pieces osama. Honestly people are so lost in their anti america hate that they will believe anything america does is wrong, you cannot win in a TL thread that has anything to do with politics and america. You can't win a thread, nor can you win at politics without bludgeoning the opposing viewpoint to death. Which is, incidentally, how matters were generally dealt with in the last 5,000 years of human history and even to this day in some parts of the world. The fact that we can doubt, debate, argue, accuse, say our piece and generally be a bunch of assholes to one another without resorting to violence means we've come a long way. I didn't literally mean "win" a thread, the point is you reading through the posts so many people have unrealistic points of view its not worth arguing it. Absolutely. That some people are quicker to claim a conspiracy, rather than join in the closure and excitement everyone is feeling after the first piece of genuinely good news any administration has announced since the fall of the Berlin wall is quite sad, but that's their choice. The way I see it, Obama took a huge gamble. It could have been a political disaster if it turned out the intel was wrong. If Bin Laden was there, but wasn't killed, he could gloat once more. If they announced his death without near 100% certainty, we'd already be seeing videos of the guy announcing his continued existence. Not only is the world rid of a mass murderer, its greatly weakened the guy's hand-built network. Apparently nobody in Al Qaeda makes a pact with a cause - they made a personal pact with Osama. With him out of the picture, where does that leave the rest of Al Qaeda? The war is far from over, but the side of Peace just won a great battle. If someone prefers to wallow in continued misery and doubt after the fact, just let them. are you for real?! I'm not some anti-american ass, but you call the american mitlitary, the side of peace? are you for fuckin real? two wars, with no reason, where millions died. the terrorists coudn't even do this in the next 10 years. Umm millions? I think that might be a bit of an exaggeration. go look it up. K I did, and you're wrong. In Afghanistan: 14,000-34,000 approx. civilian deaths 11,758 deaths for the NATO-Afghani Security coalition ~38,000 killed or captured Insurgents Total in Afghanistan: 63,000-83,000In Iraq: Coalition of Countries including: United States Iraq Peshmerga Awakening Councils Withdrawn forces: United Kingdom (2003–09) Australia (2003–09) Romania (2003–09) Poland (2003–08) South Korea (2003–08) Italy (2003–06) Georgia (2003–08) Ukraine (2003–08) Netherlands (2003–05) Spain (2003–04) Denmark (2003–07) Casualties: 24,111 Insurgents and Iraq under Saddam Hussein's casualties: 38,778-70,278 Total in Iraq: 62,889-94389Total over the two wars: 125,889-177,389
Good job quoting the lowest source, so in response to your black and white unneccecity I'll reply equally.
Opinion Research Business survey 1,033,000 deaths as a result of the conflict March 2003 to August 2007
Taliban and Insurgents
Killed or captured: 38,000+
Wounded: unknown
Afghan Security Forces:
7,500+ killed [12][13][14]
Afghan Northern Alliance:
200 Killed[15][16][17][18]
Coalition:
Killed: 2,355 (US: 1,482, UK: 361, Canada: 155, Others: 357)[19]
Wounded: 16,000+ (US: 10,944,[20] UK: 4,091,[21][22] Canada: 1200+,[23] Germany: 245 Australia: 162,[24] Poland: 100 [25]
Contractors: Killed: 1,764*[26][27]
Wounded & injured: 59,465*[26][27]
Total Killed 11,758
Civilian deaths: 14,000-34,000 approx.
*Casualty numbers from the US Dept. of Labor for Contractors are combined for Iraq and Afghanistan.
Afghani is american numbers so you can atleast doubble them.
So there we are, up at like 1.2 million and counting.
Don't do the black and white game and post partial truth or false statistics, at the very least do like I do and have the guts to mention you're quoting the extreme that fits you.
EDIT: Why the fuck would you guys whine about 3000 deaths and not even have the balls to show empathy towards Iraqi's whose at the very least died ten times asmuch, if not twenty, a hundred or even three hundred more? No offence but I just get angry at that blatant selectism of the terms justice and freedom. It's like you're only counting white people here... notice how 90% of the anti-antiamericans are mentioning "he declerad war on the west" and "he killed so and so many americans" yes it's a fucking tragedy, it's shit and it's a horrid world where it happens. But does that even remotely begin to justify the deaths of all those Iraqi?
If you say yes you're playing god, weighing some people worth more than others... doing the exact same thing you hated Osama bin lading for.
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Maybe we should get a mod to change the thread title to "What is your opinion of US foreign policy?"
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Stop with the fucking numbers - they have nothing to do with his death...
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Why are the mods letting everyone argue and blast America, you want to fucking bash America? Start a new thread and post in there.
Back on topic.. glad he's dead, wish he was tortured to death but whatever =D.
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He's dead and I'm happy for it. It was a long time coming and well deserved.
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On May 03 2011 02:28 gundream wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:27 hmunkey wrote:
Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. absolutely agree
Same here. This whole retribution thing is bullshit and doesn't bring anything good.
On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:Show nested quote +If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums.
Same here. It's funny though how people believe their country gos to war for ideals, freedom, democracy and human rights, and then completely forget all their "values" when it's time to deal with the enemy.
Did anybody raise the fact that assassination is not supposed to be legal in international politics?
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So what exactly should America have done after the towers fell? Cast a magic spell that turned all the terrorists into unicorns that we could ride around on rainbows while high fiving each other because of how humane and civilized we are? Are you basically saying that any course of action that has any negative consequences should've been scrapped? I don't get it. How do you propose we deal with terrorists hell bent on destroying our entire way of life? Especially when they hide in various countries and completely change the face of warfare as we know it.
This isn't World War II. There isn't some grand, obvious enemy from a specific country. It's a group of people with many nationalities hiding out among multiple countries. What should we have done? Seriously? I hear so many people trying to make us feel guilty, but I'm not sure what your alternative plans would've been.
And as far as a trial goes... I mean have you ever seen any of his vidoes? Where he outright confesses to murdering innocent civilians and even talks about plans to do it again? Have you seen those videos? Cause they're everywhere, check em out. But nah, let's have a mock trial, that makes sense, let's waste more time and money on this asshole.
Seems like people are just using this as an excuse to bash America. And if that's the case knock yourself out. You're free to be a pathetic peice of shit. You're all welcome for once again having America rid the world of a monster.
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On May 03 2011 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:28 gundream wrote:On May 03 2011 02:27 hmunkey wrote:
Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. absolutely agree Same here. This whole retribution thing is bullshit and doesn't bring anything good. Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums. Same here. It's funny though how people believe their country gos to war for ideals, freedom, democracy and human rights, and then completely forget all their "values" when it's time to deal with the enemy. Did anybody raise the fact that assassination is not supposed to be legal in international politics?
the assassination of heads of state is not legal, bin laden wasn't a head of state.
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On May 03 2011 02:54 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:51 Megatronn wrote:
Back on topic.. glad he's dead, wish he was tortured to death but whatever =D. Statements like these make me lose faith in humanity. And I'll say already yes im glad he's dead too. But tortured to death? are you god damn serious?
If your faith in humanity excluded natural human instincts including the desire for retribution or revenge then your faith was clearly misplaced to begin with.
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I guess I'll apologize ahead of time for my American arrogance, but are we expected as a nation to sit back and allow known terrorist groups to take pot shots at our nation while we have the most nationally funded military in the world? I doubt the path of destruction was necessary but there comes a point where flexing your muscles becomes a very viable option.
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On May 03 2011 02:55 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:54 zeru wrote:On May 03 2011 02:51 Megatronn wrote:
Back on topic.. glad he's dead, wish he was tortured to death but whatever =D. Statements like these make me lose faith in humanity. And I'll say already yes im glad he's dead too. But tortured to death? are you god damn serious? If your faith in humanity excluded natural human instincts including the desire for retribution or revenge then your faith was clearly misplaced to begin with.
So basically you are justifiying vengeance? Which is pretty much what anyone who seeks to avenge Osama will be after?
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On May 03 2011 02:55 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:54 zeru wrote:On May 03 2011 02:51 Megatronn wrote:
Back on topic.. glad he's dead, wish he was tortured to death but whatever =D. Statements like these make me lose faith in humanity. And I'll say already yes im glad he's dead too. But tortured to death? are you god damn serious? If your faith in humanity excluded natural human instincts including the desire for retribution or revenge then your faith was clearly misplaced to begin with.
Procreation is a basic human instinct. By your logic everyone should go around raping people because it's natural.
Part of being human is being able to control your instincts. In fact, I'd argue that self-control is a large part of what separates us from animals.
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On May 03 2011 02:55 jdseemoreglass wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:54 zeru wrote:On May 03 2011 02:51 Megatronn wrote:
Back on topic.. glad he's dead, wish he was tortured to death but whatever =D. Statements like these make me lose faith in humanity. And I'll say already yes im glad he's dead too. But tortured to death? are you god damn serious? If your faith in humanity excluded natural human instincts including the desire for retribution or revenge then your faith was clearly misplaced to begin with.
And what separates us from animals is that we control these urges lest we destroy eachother.
An eye for an eye will leave the whole world blind, and I refuse to believe in any system that would trade murder for murder, torture for torture.
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On May 03 2011 02:40 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:38 Silvanel wrote:On May 03 2011 02:25 Kennigit wrote:On May 03 2011 02:23 Rflcrx wrote:On May 03 2011 02:20 Kennigit wrote:
I reworded the warning. yeah, though I think you meant osama and not obama. And it is still disappointing. Did i type Obama again? fml. People seem to think America is the world police and that they need to smack hands and teach people lessons...they aren't. It's a war. You kill leaders in war. Also im not modding this thread anymore because i'm way too mad and super biased. Pardon me if i am mistaken, but wasnt both Iraq and Afghanistan operation labeled "police operations" rather than wars? So that captivities are denied Geneva convention rights-ie. not treated as enemy soldiers but rather hostile fighters. At least thats what i recall from early days of said oparations, maybe the retoric has changed since then. Ps. I am not saying Osama should be spared or even attempted to be taken alive. Ps2.I feel much better after You reworded the warning, previous version was kinda disturbing, thank You. actually they are labeled police actions because the president doesn't have to go before congress and request that they declare war.
Well maybe i oversimplfied it (common trend during internet discussion), obviously there is more than one reason to not call it war in legal sense. Anyway its kinda schizophrenic to call it differently depending on what aspect of those opartions we are disscussing. Dont You think?
I guess the question i am asking is: How do You Americans feels is it war? Is it police action? Do you realy care?
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Press briefing with questions live right now.
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On May 03 2011 02:53 polysciguy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 03 2011 02:52 Biff The Understudy wrote:On May 03 2011 02:28 gundream wrote:On May 03 2011 02:27 hmunkey wrote:
Someday I hope we never have a reason to celebrate the death of another human. Let's be happy he can never kill another person, but let's not celebrate his death. Hate is toxic. absolutely agree Same here. This whole retribution thing is bullshit and doesn't bring anything good. On May 03 2011 02:16 hifriend wrote:If you have outrageous liberal opinions about treating Bin Laden with respect, human dignity etc keep them to yourself. Wow, I expected a whole lot more from TL mod's than this. How is the principle of human rights so foreign to many people in this thread? This discussion on torture is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read on these forums. Same here. It's funny though how people believe their country gos to war for ideals, freedom, democracy and human rights, and then completely forget all their "values" when it's time to deal with the enemy. Did anybody raise the fact that assassination is not supposed to be legal in international politics? the assassination of heads of state is not legal, bin laden wasn't a head of state.
Nevertheless it was a military operation on the soil of a non-US country whose government didnt have a clue about the operation (according to german TV). That is a dangerous precedent and killing someone - even if he is a terrorist - without a trial is not the right way to become more popular in the muslim world. "Meddling with those countries" is one of the reasons why there are so many terrorists and why the USA isnt liked there ...
Obviously no government will say they are angry about it, but the way it was done will create resentment.
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On May 03 2011 03:00 Thrill wrote:
Press briefing with questions live right now.
Link please 
EDIT: If any?
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EPT
