EPTIndiana bans abortion past 20th week - Page 31
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jungsu
United States279 Posts
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Kinetik_Inferno
United States1431 Posts
On April 29 2011 09:41 Alzadar wrote: The baby holds no responsibility for the crimes of its father, and should not be punished for them. No, the mother doesn't want to carry a baby that (she) a) Didn't plan to carry b) Didn't have with her husband, male friend, sperm donor, boyfriend, or partner c) A stranger (rapist) forced upon her and the traumatic events of which may make her guilty. | ||
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Stratos_speAr
United States6959 Posts
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Owarida
United States333 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:21 funnybananaman wrote: Fact for any realists in the thread: percentage wise, abortion is more common it countries where it is illegal than countries where it is legal. I am not morally against abortion but even if you are, there is indisputable evidence and logic behind the fact that making it illegal would be a horrible idea. source This post is not directed at the law posted in the OP Going to go easy on you bud, but your "indisputable evidence and logic" is wrong. ~40-45million abortions world wide per year, China has 13 million a year. Its legal in China. So about 25% of the abortions world wide are coming out of one country, where it is legal. K, indisputable. Stop posting please. | ||
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vetinari
Australia602 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:27 Owarida wrote: Going to go easy on you bud, but your "indisputable evidence and logic" is wrong. ~40-45million abortions world wide per year, China has 13 million a year. Its legal in China. So about 25% of the abortions world wide are coming out of one country, where it is legal. K, indisputable. Stop posting please. when will people stop using statistical outliers to support their argument? China is the only country on earth with FORCED abortions. Stop posting please. | ||
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Rfaulker
United States53 Posts
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AyeH
United States534 Posts
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Owarida
United States333 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:41 vetinari wrote: when will people stop using statistical outliers to support their argument? China is the only country on earth with FORCED abortions. Stop posting please. Bravo sir! You are getting at what I am trying to say. Pulling out random statistics without consideration as to A) What the stat is saying B) The bias of the stat/study C) The implications of it, makes the arguments made using that stat pointless and irrelevant. | ||
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Signet
United States1718 Posts
On April 29 2011 12:27 Owarida wrote: Going to go easy on you bud, but your "indisputable evidence and logic" is wrong. ~40-45million abortions world wide per year, China has 13 million a year. Its legal in China. So about 25% of the abortions world wide are coming out of one country, where it is legal. K, indisputable. Stop posting please. China also has 1.3 billion people. Obviously China is going to have more abortions per year than, say, Iceland, regardless of what laws are in place in those nations. For a relevant comparison, you'd compare rates (abortions per capita) among nations where it is legal versus rates among nations where it is illegal. So smart move going easy  | ||
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GetSome
United States35 Posts
On April 28 2011 11:28 Imres wrote: So you don't see the difference between an human being and an human... and you think that a women hasn't the right to control her body, congrats! At what point am is anyone telling a women what to do with her body when it comes to abortion? Let me guess, endure 9 months of being pregnant and then birth the baby? Does that pretty much sum it up? I don't know about you but where I come from its called taking responsibility for your actions. Now I am not talking about rape or insest. That is where the issue gets gray for me. I am talking about a women who doesn't take the necessary precautions to prevent getting pregnant and then gets upset when she does get pregnant... Take responsibility for your actions people. And don't bring up breaking condoms and non-effective birth control either...those are to be considered as part of the risks of sex IMO...besides they, along with rape and insest, make up a small percentage of the abortions taking place and I am referring to the majority. And another thing...It is SO silly to me that people are actually debating if the fetus is alive or not...People if we consider single-celled organisms, bacteria, fungus, mold, yeast, etc....hell even a fucking tree to be living, than I am pretty sure we can safely say that the little human shaped fetus with a beating heart it is also living too regardless of its complete dependency on its mother. Is it any less dependent after it is born? Nope, it is still 100% dependent on mom after it is born too and nobody would be willing to kill it then... Sorry people but it IS alive and it IS human so to me it IS murder. | ||
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Godzilla
Canada23 Posts
On April 29 2011 11:57 Stratos_speAr wrote: 20 weeks is legit and the precedent around most of the country anyway. It's somewhere between week 20 and 24 that the fetus develops even the slightest chance of surviving outside of the womb, so this law makes sense. However, requiring doctors to say those things to patients is absolutely ridiculous. This country just sickens me with the bullshit that goes on in politics. Requiring a doctor to say what is the truth is ridiculous? Would you rather your doctor not to tell you what is true about any conditions you have, maybe they'll lie to you about your cancer or heart condition to make you feel better. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:36 GetSome wrote: At what point am is anyone telling a women what to do with her body when it comes to abortion? Let me guess, endure 9 months of being pregnant and then birth the baby? Does that pretty much sum it up? I don't know about you but where I come from its called taking responsibility for your actions. Now I am not talking about rape or insest. That is where the issue gets gray for me. I am talking about a women who doesn't take the necessary precautions to prevent getting pregnant and then gets upset when she does get pregnant... Take responsibility for your actions people. And don't bring up breaking condoms and non-effective birth control either...those are to be considered as part of the risks of sex IMO...besides they, along with rape and insest, make up a small percentage of the abortions taking place and I am referring to the majority. And another thing...It is SO silly to me that people are actually debating if the fetus is alive or not...People if we consider single-celled organisms, bacteria, fungus, mold, yeast, etc....hell even a fucking tree to be living, than I am pretty sure we can safely say that the little human shaped fetus with a beating heart it is also living too regardless of its complete dependency on its mother. Is it any less dependent after it is born? Nope, it is still 100% dependent on mom after it is born too and nobody would be willing to kill it then... Sorry people but it IS alive and it IS human so to me it IS murder. Unfortunately we can't piss around with this issue. Its either entirely allowed or entirely banned. Theres no inbetween. So really it comes down to can you overlook your point of women irresponsibly getting pregnant or do you basically say screw it and make it illegal for all women seeking an abortion regardless of the circumstance. Referring to the fetus being alive part, it really can't survive without the woman. True, a newborn baby can't really survive, but it can sure as hell breathe on its own. | ||
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GetSome
United States35 Posts
Referring to the fetus being alive part, it really can't survive without the woman. True, a newborn baby can't really survive, but it can sure as hell breathe on its own. [/QUOTE] Mr Cloud I agree there is no pissing around on the issue. I believe we all know what side of the fence I am on. Unfortunately I don't believe in letting people get away with acting irresponsibility at such a high level. Because I believe it is murder (just my opinion) I believe it is very very serious. I would not agree to people getting away with drinking and driving or ignoring necessary safety precautions on the job either. When your choices can negatively effect someone else I believe you must be held accountable...especially if there is someones life on the line. And I would agree with you again that the fetus might not be able to breathe on its own either...but I certainly don't consider THAT a logical reason to make it a candidate for abortion...Breathing is about the only thing a newborn can do... | ||
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Essentia
1150 Posts
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GetSome
United States35 Posts
On April 29 2011 14:28 Essentia wrote: Every civilization from the beginning has performed some kind of child sacrifice, this is just the modern form of it and how we do it in our society. sorry but I consider this the stupidest thing I have read in a long time...was this a joke? Is there a REASON for this "child sacrifice"? Is it necessary? Because some hooting superstitious clan of ignorants decides to knife a child 1000 years ago, that suddenly that makes it okay to do it now? From this perspective our race is pretty shallow and disgusting... | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4781 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:41 Godzilla wrote: Requiring a doctor to say what is the truth is ridiculous? Would you rather your doctor not to tell you what is true about any conditions you have, maybe they'll lie to you about your cancer or heart condition to make you feel better. Seeing as it is not the truth it is ridiculous yeah.... It hasn't been established at what point the fetus is able to feel and react to outer stimuli... | ||
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Danjoh
Sweden405 Posts
On April 29 2011 13:41 Godzilla wrote: Requiring a doctor to say what is the truth is ridiculous? Would you rather your doctor not to tell you what is true about any conditions you have, maybe they'll lie to you about your cancer or heart condition to make you feel better. Fetal awareness of noxious stimuli requires functional thalamocortical connections. Thalamocortical fibers begin appearing between 23 to 30 weeks’ gestational age, while electroencephalography suggests the capacity for functional pain perception in preterm neonates probably does not exist before 29 or 30 weeks. According to http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/294/8/947.full And they are now forced to say that they can feel pain prior to 20 weeks, even tho evidence suggests otherwise, how is that close to the truth? | ||
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On April 28 2011 19:41 MozzarellaL wrote: No form of birth control is 100% effective, you need to stop talking. Nobody has ever said that people have a property right in their own body. That isn't stated anywhere in the constitution and no Supreme Court decision has ever come close to ruling to that effect (Not in Roe v. Wade, and fyi you don't even have property rights to your own genes or other body parts, see Moore v. Regents of Uni of California, which expressly rejected the concept of property rights to body). I don't even know where you're trying to go with your argument. The error youre making is using the concept of state law as description of justifiability. It isnt, because state law is arbitrary, not universal. You see, the whole concept of justice is meaningless without universality, because if it isnt universal, it is just actions with arbitrary value judgements. And the reason propertarianism MUST be used as a premise of justice is because it is the only universal premise of justice that can conceivably exist. | ||
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Essentia
1150 Posts
On April 29 2011 14:37 GetSome wrote: sorry but I consider this the stupidest thing I have read in a long time...was this a joke? Is there a REASON for this "child sacrifice"? Is it necessary? Because some hooting superstitious clan of ignorants decides to knife a child 1000 years ago, that suddenly that makes it okay to do it now? From this perspective our race is pretty shallow and disgusting... No I'm not for sacrificing innocent children, I was merely making a reference to history that this has been going. on since the beginning. | ||
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Shrewmy
Australia199 Posts
If we continue at the current birth rate we're going to see a very, very serious die off in our species once we realise that we can't sustain it. | ||
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