EPTFeds cracking down on online poker..? - Page 20
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Pokerstars is an online poker site. Pokerstrategy is an educational training site. They are not the same site. The TSL3 is sponsored by pokerstrategy.com. | ||
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Go0g3n
Russian Federation410 Posts
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Jibba
United States22883 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:30 GeeseHoward wrote: Wait, what? I thought only the conspirators are getting put in jail. Are you saying actual players are being jailed? I thought you meant it as a metaphor for having their money frozen.I never said they were jailed. Merely saying United States is jailing a lot of people arugable illegally. Sorry if you find it confusing but I just want to stress that they may be innocent and we should wait till all the facts are out before condemning them. | ||
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andiCR
Costa Rica2273 Posts
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GeeseHoward
United States78 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:33 Jibba wrote: Wait, what? I thought only the conspirators are getting put in jail. Are you saying actual players are being jailed? I thought you meant it as a metaphor for having their money frozen. No, nevermind. I'm personally going wait till all the facts are release before saying their business was dirty. | ||
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Phonics
114 Posts
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NoobSkills
United States1601 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:35 never_toss wrote: wait. what about pokerstrategy? Is it being affected too? how about tsl's prizemoney? Lol no. They're shutting down the "big" guys from operating. | ||
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cujo2k
Canada1044 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:35 never_toss wrote: wait. what about pokerstrategy? Is it being affected too? how about tsl's prizemoney? Depending on what happens, I could see this affecting pokerstrategy's potential sponsorship of TSL 4. But I'm guessing that TSL3 will go on as planned. | ||
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j0k3r
United States577 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:35 never_toss wrote: wait. what about pokerstrategy? Is it being affected too? how about tsl's prizemoney? AFAIK from what was said before in the thread, pokerstrategy is merely a gateway to sites where you can actually gamble from, and does not in and of itself provide any services beyond coaching, discussion of poker strategy, forums etc. As an entity, I don't think they have any legal risk of lawsuit or criminal complaint. However, they are partnered with many of the targeted sites and I would assume that this means a form of revenue is going to be cut off. How big is anyone's guess. I have no qualification to presume what would happen to TSL prize money. | ||
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blizzind
United States642 Posts
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Ephex
United States10 Posts
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Zurles
United Kingdom1659 Posts
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SkytoM
Austria1137 Posts
This is an extremly highly technical and legal issue, not something a normal-guy would ever understand, I know that some players here have much money in their bankrolls but reading through this thead I don't get the feeling that except maybe Travis, the legal dude, Jibba and Sonovbob have any good arguments at all. You think the US are freezing your money for their depts? Don't overestimate your business just because guys can live from it (some even very good). The Pokersites did nothing immoral and illegal? Immoral is subjective and as someone stated more than 50% in the US think they do. That's called democracy, YOU have to follow majority (history should tell you why). That they did something illegal to bypass a law is, so I think, proven or about to be proven. Then there's nothing more to say. Accounts get frozen, that's standard procedure. You can't just go there and say "that law is stupid" and I'm pretty sure that deep down in your heart you know why and that that is a good thing. Because every law is stupid to somebody sometimes. Instead of getting pissed at the US gov, you should get pissed at the sites themselves to be so stupid to do this. By trusting these sites you gambled your money away. And now it's lost most probably. In times like these, where the world gets faster every day, People are so fast to call something immoral and unjust. But in most cases, people did things they "assumed" were legal and so on. If you don't understand something in its full extent, DONT DO IT. You would'nt drive a car, if you didn't know how, would you? It was the same with the financial crisis.. A LOT of people lost a LOT of money, because they put their money into things they didn't understand at all. I feel a lot for these people, but their ignorance can't just be put aside. The same case I think can be argued here. In a grey area, many people just made assumptions about legal things. But you don't make legal assumptions, that's why big companies have hordes of lawyers, because legal uncertainty in these times is the greatest danger to everything.(as a TLer, a quick look to Blizz vs OGN/MBC should enhance this argument.) And also, at the end of the day, the legal system is (and was never, except maybe in murder cases etc) about justice. It is about the balance of interests. Never forget that please, most people here are looking at the case and looking for their lost money because it was theirs and it should belong to them. That's not how the legal system works (to explain you why, I am not good enough in writing, also it would maybe need like 200pages at least). What I also noticed is that nobody is questioning the "how" of the pokersites. To fool that many banks, or even worse blackmail them, there has to be an extreme amount of criminal energy behind that. I don't think it is that easy to fake dozens of transactions. Especially with that range of money (some withdraws with only 10-100$ some with over 5-10k). the last thing i want to mention, that in any legal system money (like real money) is not handled the same way as online-money (i don't know the proper legal term in the US, i'm sorry). The sites just have a dept to you, and if a site get's bankrupt depts have a certain order to be paid ( usually with a "cut", you get only a certain percentage). so legally, that money is NOT yours. Please ensure to read that sentence often enough to really grasp it. you have no case at all if you're going to the court and demand "your money" back. The only thing you can demand is that they pay your debt. But their bankrupt now, so they can't pay it back. and that is why you're screwed. Also there is a lot to the argument that maybe you should be screwed. Why didn't you know about this legal uncertainties and issues? Why didn't you know how money in the legal system is accounted for? Why didn't you ask yourself how the sites run so smooth in US despite this law? Somebody has to pay now, because some people screwed up. Usually, as in this case, the people with the least clue and information basis are these screwed people. As in the financial crisis. I can't stress it enough, DON'T DO THINGS WITH YOUR MONEY YOU DON'T FULLY UNDERSTAND: My post are just some brain teasers. I hope you can do something with it, if not now in the state of emotions, maybe later. good day, i hope for everyone to get their money back. Also not every opinion i stated in this post is necessarily my own, just wanted to give a more wide picture. | ||
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PhilGood2DaY
Germany7424 Posts
in russia as well as in usa lol | ||
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Xursian
Canada94 Posts
A: PokerStars is proud that, under special banking arrangements, an amount covering the total of all players' account balances is held in segregated accounts, not used for any operational expenses. These segregated accounts are managed by one of Europe's leading financial services groups. These arrangements ensure that PokerStars can at all times fulfil its obligations towards its players, and provides further reassurance that players' funds are always secure with PokerStars. Be at ease Americans... | ||
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GoTuNk!
Chile4591 Posts
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benefluence
United States158 Posts
On April 16 2011 07:36 Modafinil wrote: Ok, let's try this one step at a time, since you couldn't handle it all at once. Q1. What state do you live in? Washington DC =) But seriously, thank you for providing an informed voice of reason on this thread. Keep up the good work. With regard to legal contention over whether poker counts as gambling, historically, the answer has been yes. There have been a few arguments otherwise recently, but nothing serious enough to affect the proceedings here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominant_Factor_Test http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_of_Pennsylvania_vs_Walter_Watkins If poker is gambling, then online poker is unlicensed gambling, and therefore illegal. | ||
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tarath
United States377 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:46 Zurles wrote: Glad i'm not from the "land of the free". 9th most free and falling lol: http://www.heritage.org/index/ | ||
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Seide
United States831 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:46 Zurles wrote: Glad i'm not from the "land of the free". How are you enjoying the gov't sponsored CCTV over there? | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
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TrANCE,
301 Posts
On April 16 2011 08:53 Seide wrote: How are you enjoying the gov't sponsored CCTV over there? Every democracy has its flaws, Personally being from the UK i'd rather not be able to gamble online rather that having CCTV watching every move i make | ||
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