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On April 14 2011 13:48 B00ts wrote:
You can't fault Harper for policies he kept in from prior to him taking office. What would you have him do? Remove them only to throw them back up so they can be his? huh?
Also, the balancing of the budget that Paul Martin did, was needed because his own government that was in power for 12 years had gone crazy in the first term (ish).
As for the housing crash, yes Canada's HOUSING market didn't crash as hard as the US's, however Canada did, as every other major economic power, experience a recession. Canada has come out stronger than any other nation.... A fact his opponents do not disagree with.
No, I'm saying that Harper should NOT be credited with doing such an amazing job with the economic state Canada is currently in (which is still nothing to write home about, recession and all) while you clearly thought he was ahead of the curve in your first post.
And now that Harper has created the largest deficit in Canada's history, he... will be balancing the budget by?? Spending billions on underperforming untendered contract F-35s? Lowering the corporate tax rate to 15% (ridiculously low compared to other G8/G20 nations?)?? Throwing 1.2 billion dollars of tax payer's money into the G8/20 summits? Misappropriating those funds and lavishing them on prominent Conservative ridings like Tony Clements'?
Im not saying Canada wouldn't have experienced a recession if Harper hadn't been voted in, yes it happened, yes we aren't as screwed as other countries, but it is only a matter of being slightly less screwed.
edit:
On April 14 2011 13:56 Gnial wrote:
I open that link "shitharperdid.ca", and the first and only thing that shows up on the page is some one-liner that "harper doesn't know the difference between natives and Indians."
Thats such garbage. It may shock some of you, but aboriginal legal status in Canada is as "Indians". They are protected under our constitution as "Indians" and under the "Indian Act". The main front page of the site claims that Harper is ignorant of the difference between aboriginals and Indians...but if you are 1/2 informed you'd be able to figure out that whoever manages the site is just a moron.
I'm not leaning one way or the other politically - but one thing I am against is people who use this kind of trash to decide whom to vote for. Why on earth would you present a site as a source for your political position which bases its arguments on bullshit semantics?
Educate yourselves, and stop spreading filth.
I couldn't find that particular one you posted since it doesn't cycle through them in order, but each blurb references an actual article at the bottom there, so although I can't verify your outrage, try some of the other ones on for size (you can check the references too, if you'd like). Honestly, it's a funny way to present information, but it isn't wrong.
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On April 14 2011 13:56 Gnial wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 12:53 Krytha wrote:Exactly. I'm looking at all these replies saying no one knows what is wrong with our current conservatives. Does no one follow the news? The conservatives have been completely undemocratic and secretive and just THROWING money around like they were swimming in a pool of it like Scrooge McDuck. Somebody had a link to statscan about the current state of our economy and it shows that the total amount of jobs has decreased, there were losses in health jobs and an increase in food service jobs. Woowoo Stephen Harpers economy will let you get a job at Mcdonalds! Bet you can put away 10k in 5 years into that nice tax free savings account that Harper promised with a job like that. And now the Bank of Canada is saying that their expectations for economic growth have decreased... again... Freaking bang up job right there. As far as internet rights go, Im going to let the courts settle that one for now, I dont think any one party has a political platform really geared towards that stuff. I open that link "shitharperdid.ca", and the first and only thing that shows up on the page is some one-liner that "harper doesn't know the difference between natives and Indians." Thats such garbage. It may shock some of you, but aboriginal legal status in Canada is as "Indians". They are protected under our constitution as "Indians" and under the "Indian Act". The main front page of the site claims that Harper is ignorant of the difference between aboriginals and Indians...but if you are 1/2 informed you'd be able to figure out that whoever manages the site is just a moron. I'm not leaning one way or the other politically - but one thing I am against is people who use this kind of trash to decide whom to vote for. Why on earth would you present a site as a source for your political position which bases its arguments on bullshit semantics? Educate yourselves, and stop spreading filth.
I believe it's a reference to an event where Harper wished Native Americans a Happy Indian Republic Day when its a holiday in India and not for Native "Indians".
Source
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On April 14 2011 14:24 SpookCell wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:56 Gnial wrote:On April 14 2011 12:53 Krytha wrote:Exactly. I'm looking at all these replies saying no one knows what is wrong with our current conservatives. Does no one follow the news? The conservatives have been completely undemocratic and secretive and just THROWING money around like they were swimming in a pool of it like Scrooge McDuck. Somebody had a link to statscan about the current state of our economy and it shows that the total amount of jobs has decreased, there were losses in health jobs and an increase in food service jobs. Woowoo Stephen Harpers economy will let you get a job at Mcdonalds! Bet you can put away 10k in 5 years into that nice tax free savings account that Harper promised with a job like that. And now the Bank of Canada is saying that their expectations for economic growth have decreased... again... Freaking bang up job right there. As far as internet rights go, Im going to let the courts settle that one for now, I dont think any one party has a political platform really geared towards that stuff. I open that link "shitharperdid.ca", and the first and only thing that shows up on the page is some one-liner that "harper doesn't know the difference between natives and Indians." Thats such garbage. It may shock some of you, but aboriginal legal status in Canada is as "Indians". They are protected under our constitution as "Indians" and under the "Indian Act". The main front page of the site claims that Harper is ignorant of the difference between aboriginals and Indians...but if you are 1/2 informed you'd be able to figure out that whoever manages the site is just a moron. I'm not leaning one way or the other politically - but one thing I am against is people who use this kind of trash to decide whom to vote for. Why on earth would you present a site as a source for your political position which bases its arguments on bullshit semantics? Educate yourselves, and stop spreading filth. I believe it's a reference to an event where Harper wished Native Americans a Happy Indian Republic Day when its a holiday in India and not for Native "Indians". Source
Rofl, if thats what that one liner was referring to, thats pretty terrible.
Edit. Can't someone provide a better source for harper shit than that site though? Its freaking terrible. The one liners take things out of context.
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Anyone in Canada today resemble Sir Wilfrid Laurier? You guys used to have a decent libertarian movement.
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On April 14 2011 14:09 Krytha wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:48 B00ts wrote:
You can't fault Harper for policies he kept in from prior to him taking office. What would you have him do? Remove them only to throw them back up so they can be his? huh?
Also, the balancing of the budget that Paul Martin did, was needed because his own government that was in power for 12 years had gone crazy in the first term (ish).
As for the housing crash, yes Canada's HOUSING market didn't crash as hard as the US's, however Canada did, as every other major economic power, experience a recession. Canada has come out stronger than any other nation.... A fact his opponents do not disagree with.
No, I'm saying that Harper should NOT be credited with doing such an amazing job with the economic state Canada is currently in (which is still nothing to write home about, recession and all) while you clearly thought he was ahead of the curve in your first post. And now that Harper has created the largest deficit in Canada's history, he... will be balancing the budget by?? Spending billions on underperforming untendered contract F-35s? Lowering the corporate tax rate to 15% (ridiculously low compared to other G8/G20 nations?)?? Throwing 1.2 billion dollars of tax payer's money into the G8/20 summits? Misappropriating those funds and lavishing them on prominent Conservative ridings like Tony Clements'? Im not saying Canada wouldn't have experienced a recession if Harper hadn't been voted in, yes it happened, yes we aren't as screwed as other countries, but it is only a matter of being slightly less screwed. edit: Show nested quote +On April 14 2011 13:56 Gnial wrote:
I open that link "shitharperdid.ca", and the first and only thing that shows up on the page is some one-liner that "harper doesn't know the difference between natives and Indians."
Thats such garbage. It may shock some of you, but aboriginal legal status in Canada is as "Indians". They are protected under our constitution as "Indians" and under the "Indian Act". The main front page of the site claims that Harper is ignorant of the difference between aboriginals and Indians...but if you are 1/2 informed you'd be able to figure out that whoever manages the site is just a moron.
I'm not leaning one way or the other politically - but one thing I am against is people who use this kind of trash to decide whom to vote for. Why on earth would you present a site as a source for your political position which bases its arguments on bullshit semantics?
Educate yourselves, and stop spreading filth. I couldn't find that particular one you posted since it doesn't cycle through them in order, but each blurb references an actual article at the bottom there, so although I can't verify your outrage, try some of the other ones on for size (you can check the references too, if you'd like). Honestly, it's a funny way to present information, but it isn't wrong.
First of all, every government has to run a deficit sometimes. To think otherwise is to be misinformed.
Shit happens, war happens, recessions happen (and bailouts are needed). How do you think EVERY company in the world operates? By only spending profit and cash on hand? Never going into debt? No organization would ever generate growth or jobs that way. The same goes for nations. You cannot get anything done without debt. This is why pretty every major economist in the US is saying the banks need to start lending again.
Yes our economy is something to write home about. Everything is relative.
The point that the F-35's are underperforming is based off one test of a pre-mass produced version. Its like saying no one should ever buy the next Windows OS because the alpha version is sooo bugggyyy gawwwd.
Should we not upgrade our military equipment so we're not easier shot down in theatres of war? Whether you think Canada should play a role in peacekeeping is of course of to you, however if you are, I don't see how anyone could make an argument against these planes. By saying they are too much you put a price on our troops lives.
Lower tax rates invite investors and companies to do business in canada, causing larger tax revenue. Not only that, but they create jobs. I mean, the liberal government had a balanced budget because they taxed so much, and that shitharpersaid website would have you believe they didn't spend like the conservatives do. Like I said. Epic Troll.
And why is having a lower tax rate than other G8 countries so bad? (we dont really btw, because you have to include provincial taxes, and when you do, we are above the US's tax rate). We are doing better in this recovery than all of them...... So you want to be like them?... what???
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Canada11575 Posts
On April 14 2011 11:39 Lanaia wrote:
I would have watched the entire debate, but I have a 20 page essay due in a couple days. Sorry!
People on Facebook are talking about voting. One status in particular bothered me:
"Dear everyone else who goes to VIU and bitched endlessly about the strike: If, in the upcoming election, you a) don't vote b) vote conservative, I will cut you. That is all."
Is there something super-wrong with the Conservatives that I've been missing? Personally, I don't think they're doing anything wrong, so why should we change it (except to obtain a majority for some party)?
What? That doesn't even make sense given that the VIU strike was between faculty and admin after the provincial government was giving less money. What does the federal Conservatives have anything to do with that?
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First sentence...
labour-oriented Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Labour oriented.
Labour oriented.
You mean Labourer's and Unions have something bad to say about corporations? You dont say.... And it was a statistical study based on an unknown $6 billion. Which 6 billion? Maybe that was a selective $6 billion. You gotta take these things with a grain of salt.
Its not like there are dozens of top Universities throughout NA that believe tax cuts bring investment and jobs. ... oh wait
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On April 14 2011 15:00 B00ts wrote:
First of all, every government has to run a deficit sometimes. To think otherwise is to be misinformed.
Shit happens, war happens, recessions happen (and bailouts are needed). How do you think EVERY company in the world operates? By only spending profit and cash on hand? Never going into debt? No organization would ever generate growth or jobs that way. The same goes for nations. You cannot get anything done without debt. This is why pretty every major economist in the US is saying the banks need to start lending again.
Yes our economy is something to write home about. Everything is relative.
The point that the F-35's are underperforming is based off one test of a pre-mass produced version. Its like saying no one should ever buy the next Windows OS because the alpha version is sooo bugggyyy gawwwd.
Should we not upgrade our military equipment so we're not easier shot down in theatres of war? Whether you think Canada should play a role in peacekeeping is of course of to you, however if you are, I don't see how anyone could make an argument against these planes. By saying they are too much you put a price on our troops lives.
Lower tax rates invite investors and companies to do business in canada, causing larger tax revenue. Not only that, but they create jobs. I mean, the liberal government had a balanced budget because they taxed so much, and that shitharpersaid website would have you believe they didn't spend like the conservatives do. Like I said. Epic Troll.
And why is having a lower tax rate than other G8 countries so bad? (we dont really btw, because you have to include provincial taxes, and when you do, we are above the US's tax rate). We are doing better in this recovery than all of them...... So you want to be like them?... what???
Hey there, nice strawman arguments. Don't go anywhere though, I'll be back to chat after my exams tomorrow.
edit:
On April 14 2011 15:09 B00ts wrote:
First sentence...
labour-oriented Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives
Labour oriented.
Labour oriented.
You mean Labourer's and Unions have something bad to say about corporations? You dont say.... And it was a statistical study based on an unknown $6 billion. Which 6 billion? Maybe that was a selective $6 billion. You gotta take these things with a grain of salt.
Its not like there are dozens of top Universities throughout NA that believe tax cuts bring investment and jobs. ... oh wait
and you didn't even read the article did you? You saw labour-oriented and then just jumped to conclusions even though that could mean many different things. They looked at how "historic trends show businesses' fixed capital spending has declined as a share of GDP and as a share of corporate cash flow since the early 1980s, despite a series of federal and provincial corporate tax cuts." What are they just making the numbers up? All they are saying is that historically, corporations don't reinvest the money on the same scale as the savings they get in this country. It didn't happen then, and what makes you think it's going to happen now? Record profits, and some nice bonuses for executives, yes. A significant increase in jobs? I sincerely doubt it. As for the 6 billion which you have no clue about, that is the 6 billion dollars in taxes the corporations WOULD be paying if they didn't get those nice tax breaks. I honestly don't know why you couldn't just find that yourself in the article.
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Can anyone help point at articles about the parties opinions on ubb. Ultimately this is what my vote will come down to. Much thanks.
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This debate was horrible. No questions were answered because it was just the other 3 leaders attacking Harper, with ridiculous accusations at that... I don't know how anyone can vote for Liberal or Bloc after watching this, or NDP after they voted against the budget after they got what they wanted in it, they were going to call this election BS regardless of what was in the budget. This election is a waste of time, and I sure hope Conservatives get their majority so we don't have this again 3 years from now.
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This "election BS" happened because our elected Members of Parliament are doing their jobs. They're keeping the party that formed government in check so they don't continue to get away with the tricks they pull, like using the Senate to override legislature. Or sending money to ridings, have the ridings send them back, only to doctor invoices as though they had spent that money (and get a 60% return on that non-spent money they claim they spent). Or the jets that no one can provide a comprehensive cost analysis for. Or the increase in prison spending when it's been shown that crime rates have been dropping in the past 10 years.
I don't know how anyone can continue to support a government that lost power due to a non-confidence motion passed based on them withholding information from Parliament after that government was elected based on promises of transparency. It doesn't make any sense to me.
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My thoughts exactly Albrithe.
Your comments Figgy are as useful as the debate itself. The only thing we can take away is you bleed Blue and White (not the blue and white disease plaguing the Toronto Maple Leafs, but the other one!).
I can understand why they would want to knock on Harper, but yes enough is enough. Many Canadians already have a negative view of his character and platform just like the rest of them. That is why he will NEVER win a majority ever. The Tories need new leadership just like every other party in Canada. This shit will go on and on until the parties re-think their strategies and get better leadership.
While I agree everyone should focus less on the personal attacks (even though every party's ad campaign seems to be banking on it -- just watch every Tory, Bloc, NDP, Liberal commercial and you'll know what I'm talking about). Enter the debates. Same shit. Less focus on what others are doing and put more focus on a platform Canadians will buy into.
Fucking politics. If they wanted to bash each other have a roast or take it to Yuk Yuk's.
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We absolutely need less personal attacks in Canadian politics. That's why in my post I didn't explicitly state "The Conservative Government" or "The Harper Government" or whatever. It's not about who is in the Prime Minister's Office, it's about what they're doing in it. The current government wasn't acting in the best interest of Canadians and the Members of Parliament in the opposition realized that, and acted on it appropriately. Anyone who says otherwise doesn't realize the hard times that a lot of Canadians are facing.
One big thing going on in Nova Scotia is hospital and family doctor wait times. Whenever I need to consult my physician, I book for an appointment in 3-5 months. My brother was put on a half year waiting list for surgery in his sinuses after already waiting a year to see the specialist that recommended the surgery! There has been an NDP incumbent in my riding for the better part of two decades because of these exact reasons. But I don't vote for Jack Layton, I vote for my local MP. A lot of people in Canada that I've talked politics with don't seem to understand that concept.
EDIT: I also agree about the current political leaders. Can you imagine how different the Conservatives would seem (regardless if there was any change) if someone like Peter MacKay was the leader?
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Gonna vote for the first time in this election. I have no idea who though  In Oakville if that makes a difference
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I'm spending my first vote to a party that won't win. My riding is 100% bloc quebecois, but NDP gets my vote anyway. I just hope the young adults come out and vote, could change the election drastically.
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I really wish I could vote for the Bloc but unfortunately I'm in Alberta and for some reason they don't run here...
I've always felt the Bloc actually has the most balanced and well thought out stances on almost every election issue pretty much every election, they could probably get into office with a name change and people running outside of Quebec.
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Well for the time being, voting for the party you want even if you know they won't win contributes a small amount to their coffers at the very least. The conservatives are against this sort of government funding though, so if they get in, I don't know if it will still be in effect the next time an election rolls around. Something that desperately needs revision is the first past the post election method. It's broken beyond belief in our current situation. Disappointingly, when mixed member proportional representation was trying to get passed in Ontario, nobody showed up to vote and the FPP system won in a landslide leaving us with the system we have and loathe today. So even if you think your vote changes nothing in your particular riding, do it anyway because who knows, you could be the difference between the status quo and meaningful change.
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You bring up a good point Krytha, however if you're a Canadian that is sick of the current government abusing its power, and you have a Conservative incumbent in your riding, you need to do research into the results of last election and vote for the person who had the second highest amount of votes. Yes, it's good to vote for who you want to support the most, but if they don't have a chance in hell based on last years turn out I'd advise caution. The only way to remove a government from power in our system is to not vote in their MP's.
For example:
On April 15 2011 01:33 BandonBanshee wrote:Gonna vote for the first time in this election. I have no idea who though In Oakville if that makes a difference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_federal_election_results_in_Brampton,_Mississauga_and_Oakville
This shows that last election the Conservatives received approximately 26000 votes, whereas the liberals received 20000, and the Green Party and NDP received 4000 each. If you're a person like I've described above, it would be in your best interest to vote Liberal in the Oakville riding because they have the best chance at removing the Conservative incumbent.
edit: if you click on that link and scroll to the bottom they actually have comparisons for almost every riding (excluding yukon, NWT and nunavut probably from lack of easily attainable reliable information) for the last election (and more). I'd almost suggest reading through these just to see the status of your own riding. Hypothetically, if you're a liberal supporter with an NDP incumbent, but conservatives were second place in your riding during the last election, I would seriously consider voting NDP (even just this once) to ensure they don't lose to the conservative candidate. Also keep in mind that plenty of MP candidates get switched around so the people in your riding may not be the same as in the 2008 election.
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I think I've made it very clear in my posts that I cannot abide another conservative government, minority or (lawd have mercy) majority. They are straight up criminals on a level that has never been seen before in the history of this country and I will do what little I can to A) remove them from my riding B) spread the news even if it means arguing uselessly with conbots online. I feel terrible about having voter apathy in the past because when you're young it's "not your problem". Suddenly you're older and are basically complicit in the crimes of government because you stood by idly while they helped themselves to canadian tax dollars.
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EPT
