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On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless.
This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills.
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On April 09 2011 10:52 fishball232 wrote:you are adding a one more term, you get 1 or 0. essentially it'd the difference between the number of terms you have. this is a geometric series where r=-1 so it diverges. no answer so 0=/1 calculate this 1+1/2+1/4+1/8+1/16.....
Nope, you can have the exact same terms
1+1-1+1-1=1
(1+1)-(1+1)-1=-1
Completely subjective.
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It's only unclear if you don't follow the rules. Some people write 1/2x with a long division bar so it's "obvious" the 2x is under the bar but that's only because writing brackets everywhere can get tedious. It's still wrong.
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On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills.
Its written to throw off people with lesser math skills, and lazy people with good math skills. I posed this question to one of my friends who is normally quite good at math, and he just snap answered 2, when i told him he was wrong he started arguing with me until he said OHHH...
It just goes to prove that you really need to pay attention when doing math.
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On April 09 2011 10:46 quiggy wrote:
1-1+1-1+1-1 . . .=0
1-1+1-1+1-1 . . . =1
0=1
/this thread
=0 not 1 If you're gonna write "..." that's meaningless unless you define it. If it's infinite it doesn't converge.
On April 09 2011 10:58 quiggy wrote:
Nope, you can have the exact same terms
1+1-1+1-1=1
(1+1)-(1+1)-1=-1
Completely subjective.
No, you can't put brackets anywhere you want.
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On April 09 2011 10:03 gerundium wrote:
i like this thread. The math expression is just an ambiguous one that you can only answer from a certain assumption about the implied rules. Both sides are right / wrong until the mathematics community decides on a verdict for this...
The problem is that the two sides here are not the ones voting for 288 and the ones voting for 2, but the ones who can only conceive there is one way of doing things and don't acknowledge any other possibilities (and incidentally, mostly vote on 288) and the ones who realize the ambiguity in the original expression and consider both interpretations.
From that point on and because the whole discussion is based on convention, it's just a religious argument as the first side is just fixed on their position and won't accept any other arguments (even references to the AMS). PEMDAS is just a symptom, as many people seem to stick to that no matter what. But I guess if someone's convinced the way they were taught is the only right way, it's gonna be hard to change their mind. It doesn't help that math is often taught as a subject where everything is black or white, although happily that trend has changed what with Goedel and all that stuff.
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On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. You can phrase math poorly, just like you can code poorly. The program might work, but if its messy its hard for anyone other than its writer to work on. Just like this eqn, there may be only one way to solve it, but it is written poorly.
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lol I misread the 9+3 and thought it was 9+2 I'm like well this doesn't make sense, i guess I'll vote 2.
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On April 09 2011 10:18 L3gendary wrote:
I'm quite saddened 44% of people actually think it's 2.
it saddens me that there are people who think like this 
if i was a math teacher and student wrote this as an answer, i'd ask him what he meant.
simple as that.
to say there is no ambiguity(or confusion) is wrong, since there obviously is, 90+ page thread is proof itself.
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On April 09 2011 11:19 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:18 L3gendary wrote:
I'm quite saddened 44% of people actually think it's 2. to say there is no ambiguity(or confusion) is wrong, since there obviously is, 90+ page thread is proof itself.
Or 90 pages filled with people who don't know Math and others trying to explain their errors (and others mocking those who picked 2).
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On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills.
I'll tell that to my math TA the next time he says I wasn't clear enough in my explanation.
There are absolutely poor choices to make when writing math, in the same way a sentence can be grammatical without being something you'd actually want to say. The ambiguity that this equation is based on has been shown to me before, so I knew what the answer was, but I certainly don't like it. It's not written to throw off people with lesser math skills, it's written to throw off people who don't work it through step by step, or haven't seen the trick before.
And that's all there is to it.
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On April 09 2011 11:25 eluv wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. or haven't seen the trick before. And that's all there is to it.
And that trick is the order of operations? What a devilish trick!
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I didn't read the thread and I was also scared to post this but I'm pretty sure that "1/2x" question reads as (1/2)x. Mainly nervous cuz so many people voted 1/(2x). What's the correct answer?
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On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills.
I voted 288 because the convention I have always used is left associative when the operators have the same precedence. However, it is clear there are people that have never been exposed to this convention. The problem is much more deeply rooted in philosophy than you think. Even if there were an international standard, the problem would have to state: 'use the international standard to resolve ambiguities' to allow for any notion of correctness.
Your assumption that the most popular convention is the only acceptable way to evaluate an expression is fundamentally wrong. You can not argue for correctness based on a convention, but that is exactly what you are doing. Your statements about people having lesser math skills if they don't use that convention (due to never being introduced to it) is ironic.
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On April 09 2011 11:27 MaRiNe23 wrote:
I didn't read the thread and I was also scared to post this but I'm pretty sure that "1/2x" question reads as (1/2)x. Mainly nervous cuz so many people voted 1/(2x). What's the correct answer?
It can be either, don't listen to the "ezpz pedmas" people
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On April 09 2011 11:30 Sluggy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. I voted 288 because the convention I have always used is left associative when the operators have the same precedence. However, it is clear there are people that have never been exposed to this convention. The problem is much more deeply rooted in philosophy than you think. Even if there were an international standard, the problem would have to state: 'use the international standard to resolve ambiguities' to allow for any notion of correctness. Your assumption that the most popular convention is the only acceptable way to evaluate an expression is fundamentally wrong. You can not argue for correctness based on a convention, but that is exactly what you are doing. Your statements about people having lesser math skills if they don't use that convention (due to never being introduced to it) is ironic.
What the hell does this have to do with conventions? There is one correct answer to this, if your "university" teaches a short cut or some other "convention" that really doesn't matter. There is one correct answer, 288. If you put 2, you are wrong. HOW is this 90 pages haha.
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It has everything to do with convention. Left associativity is a convention, and you're using it.
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On April 09 2011 11:33 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 11:30 Sluggy wrote:On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. I voted 288 because the convention I have always used is left associative when the operators have the same precedence. However, it is clear there are people that have never been exposed to this convention. The problem is much more deeply rooted in philosophy than you think. Even if there were an international standard, the problem would have to state: 'use the international standard to resolve ambiguities' to allow for any notion of correctness. Your assumption that the most popular convention is the only acceptable way to evaluate an expression is fundamentally wrong. You can not argue for correctness based on a convention, but that is exactly what you are doing. Your statements about people having lesser math skills if they don't use that convention (due to never being introduced to it) is ironic. What the hell does this have to do with conventions? There is one correct answer to this, if your "university" teaches a short cut or some other "convention" that really doesn't matter. There is one correct answer, 288. If you put 2, you are wrong. HOW is this 90 pages haha.
I'm curious. Who told you that there is only one way to interpret this?
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On April 09 2011 11:33 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 11:30 Sluggy wrote:On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. I voted 288 because the convention I have always used is left associative when the operators have the same precedence. However, it is clear there are people that have never been exposed to this convention. The problem is much more deeply rooted in philosophy than you think. Even if there were an international standard, the problem would have to state: 'use the international standard to resolve ambiguities' to allow for any notion of correctness. Your assumption that the most popular convention is the only acceptable way to evaluate an expression is fundamentally wrong. You can not argue for correctness based on a convention, but that is exactly what you are doing. Your statements about people having lesser math skills if they don't use that convention (due to never being introduced to it) is ironic. What the hell does this have to do with conventions? There is one correct answer to this, if your "university" teaches a short cut or some other "convention" that really doesn't matter. There is one correct answer, 288. If you put 2, you are wrong. HOW is this 90 pages haha.
So anything said in another language is wrong because it's not the one you speak?
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On April 09 2011 11:33 Pufftrees wrote:Show nested quote +On April 09 2011 11:30 Sluggy wrote:On April 09 2011 10:53 Pufftrees wrote:On April 09 2011 10:07 gerundium wrote:On April 09 2011 10:04 FindMeInKenya wrote:
Again, read that long post on page 62, which basically explains why there's no priorities for real numbers. Maybe your Uni and work has some rules for the sake of simplification, but for a theoretical mathematician, 288 is the only agreeable answer. how about no. A mathematician would see that the question is phrased poorly and whoever did it has failed to make his intentions clear, therefor arguing any side is pointless. This "mathematician" you speak of is actually an English major who thinks he's good at Math or something? You can't phrase math poorly, there is one way to interpret this correctly, every other way is wrong. 2 is wrong, if you voted for 2 (all 800+ of you), you do not understand basic mathematical conventions... even though it's obviously written to throw off people with lesser Math skills. I voted 288 because the convention I have always used is left associative when the operators have the same precedence. However, it is clear there are people that have never been exposed to this convention. The problem is much more deeply rooted in philosophy than you think. Even if there were an international standard, the problem would have to state: 'use the international standard to resolve ambiguities' to allow for any notion of correctness. Your assumption that the most popular convention is the only acceptable way to evaluate an expression is fundamentally wrong. You can not argue for correctness based on a convention, but that is exactly what you are doing. Your statements about people having lesser math skills if they don't use that convention (due to never being introduced to it) is ironic. What the hell does this have to do with conventions? There is one correct answer to this, if your "university" teaches a short cut or some other "convention" that really doesn't matter. There is one correct answer, 288. If you put 2, you are wrong. HOW is this 90 pages haha.
This thread is 90 pages long because of ignorant people, such as yourself. Please read through the thread first, before you continue to post.
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EPT
