EPTIraq & Syrian Civil Wars - Page 259
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Please guys, stay on topic. This thread is about the situation in Iraq and Syria. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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pls no ty
86 Posts
On November 09 2014 07:58 Sub40APM wrote: US has been training the Iraqi army for the last 10 years now. What are these extra trainers going to accomplish "When you see a couple of jeeps full of jihadists, dont drop your weapons and run away" 101? There must be some other relevant issues Americans may be having hard times while training them, including language problems? On the other hand, i think it is a matter of declaring a political position, tightening relations etc. for trainers. [considering Turks training FSA - and letting Kurdish army pass Turkish soil, lately] | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/n1VZB0d.jpg) Today's weapons and ammo seized by YPG in eastern Kobane. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 09 2014 07:58 Sub40APM wrote: US has been training the Iraqi army for the last 10 years now. What are these extra trainers going to accomplish "When you see a couple of jeeps full of jihadists, dont drop your weapons and run away" 101? With all due respect, are you joking mate? Let me give you a brief history of the last few years in case you're out of the loop. While the Iraqi military in 2011 was far less organized, equipped, and effective than the old Baath military, it was still in decent shape. However, Maliki removed many of the commanders, especially if they were Sunni, and put in his own loyalists who, to put it bluntly, weren't exactly officers and certainly were not competent by any means. Do you even know what happened in June? ISIS came in, and Maliki's goons left and told all the soldiers under their command to leave as well. That's what happened. However, the second ISIS hit a division not run by Maliki's deserting goon "officers", they were stopped. Do you know what happened since late August? Lots of military reforms. Abadi purges the military of Maliki's buddies, including the Iraqi equivalent of the US Chief of Staff of the Army. He pushed reforms, brought back officers removed by Maliki, even brought back old Baath guys who were banned since 2003. Obeidi was appointed Defense Minister and carried on with the same actions. Having been a senior air force officer, he's the least happiest guy about the northern divisions in June. The Iraqi military in October/November has practically liberated two major provinces, and is currently in a huge offensive in Saladin that has liberated Baiji and parts of Tikrit. There is no "running from a couple of jeeps." Just 1,000s of dead terrorists. Even US generals are commending them, like John Kirby and Lloyd Austin. In all of this, the Iraqi Golden Division (special forces) has been exhibiting some of the best COIN we've seen. So no, there's no need for " "When you see a couple of jeeps full of jihadists, dont drop your weapons and run away" 101. " The Iraqi military already took care of that themselves. | ||
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pls no ty
86 Posts
I can still remember his haste to execute Saddam in the first day of main Sunni religious holiday. And those sectarian shouts: "Muqtada!" | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On November 09 2014 10:18 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: With all due respect, are you joking mate? Let me give you a brief history of the last few years in case you're out of the loop. While the Iraqi military in 2011 was far less organized, equipped, and effective than the old Baath military, it was still in decent shape. However, Maliki removed many of the commanders, especially if they were Sunni, and put in his own loyalists who, to put it bluntly, weren't exactly officers and certainly were not competent by any means. Do you even know what happened in June? ISIS came in, and Maliki's goons left and told all the soldiers under their command to leave as well. That's what happened. However, the second ISIS hit a division not run by Maliki's deserting goon "officers", they were stopped. Do you know what happened since late August? Lots of military reforms. Abadi purges the military of Maliki's buddies, including the Iraqi equivalent of the US Chief of Staff of the Army. He pushed reforms, brought back officers removed by Maliki, even brought back old Baath guys who were banned since 2003. Obeidi was appointed Defense Minister and carried on with the same actions. Having been a senior air force officer, he's the least happiest guy about the northern divisions in June. The Iraqi military in October/November has practically liberated two major provinces, and is currently in a huge offensive in Saladin that has liberated Baiji and parts of Tikrit. There is no "running from a couple of jeeps." Just 1,000s of dead terrorists. Even US generals are commending them, like John Kirby and Lloyd Austin. In all of this, the Iraqi Golden Division (special forces) has been exhibiting some of the best COIN we've seen. So no, there's no need for " "When you see a couple of jeeps full of jihadists, dont drop your weapons and run away" 101. " The Iraqi military already took care of that themselves. Nothing in your post disproves my point. The Americans have wasted billions training and arming the Iraqi army, then in comes in a generic representative of an Arab politician, guts 8 years of American work and voila, useless rabble, only capable of offensive operations after the return of active combat elements of a functioning Army -- whether Iranians or the Americans, you can pick. So once again, America is going to pour down the same black hole some more money, some more equipment and in another year or two when the Shiites are no longer terrified theyll once again purge the Sunnis and back to square one. A patronage distribution system masquerading itself as an army will always depend on foreigners in the face of a dedicated foe, even if the foe in military terms is suicidal and retarded. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 09 2014 12:55 Sub40APM wrote: Nothing in your post disproves my point. The Americans have wasted billions training and arming the Iraqi army, then in comes in a generic representative of an Arab politician, guts 8 years of American work and voila, useless rabble, only capable of offensive operations after the return of active combat elements of a functioning Army -- whether Iranians or the Americans, you can pick. So once again, America is going to pour down the same black hole some more money, some more equipment and in another year or two when the Shiites are no longer terrified theyll once again purge the Sunnis and back to square one. A patronage distribution system masquerading itself as an army will always depend on foreigners in the face of a dedicated foe, even if the foe in military terms is suicidal and retarded. Actually, everything in my post disproved your point. Maliki is gone. He's not calling any shots anymore. His actions that made the military what it was in June have already been dealt with and reversed, with lots more reforms to come as well. Maliki was truly one of a kind. This isn't a "gonna happen again in 1-2 years". The fact you're completely ignoring how Maliki's polices are responsible for everything, such as the evisceration of the military command and the sectarianist policies against Sunni Arabs and Kurds, which is necessary to consider in order to look at the matter correctly. Because how you're making it sound, the US did a shitty job at training the new Iraqi army, that it would be 100x worse than the old one. However, that's simply not the case. As long as you ignore Maliki, you won't understand anything regarding this matter. And trust me, I can for sure tell you that US training isn't bad. The Iraqi army we left in 2011 was lacking for equipment but was a pretty solid force. Then Maliki got to doing terrible, terrible things some mentioned in my last post. The US pretty much put Maliki in power anyways after Jafaari was forced out in 2006. Don't put a sectarianist dictator like Maliki in power to screw up every facet of a country, and you'll have one of the best functioning militaries in Asia. Maliki's gone, so the US won't be wasting money anymore as you say we will. But when you think about, the US carries the blame and responsibility at the end of the day. It was the US that disbanded a highly effective fighting force back in 2003. Basically, for both direct (disbanding the military) and indirect reasons (putting the greatest sectarianist in Iraqi history in power), the US is largely to blame. As Colin Powell said to Bush, "You break it, you own it." And the US sure as hell did a lotttt of breaking. Fortunately, the Iraqis themselves have been dramatically improving their military on their own since Maliki's removal. It just goes to show how terrible Maliki was, that so much improvement could already be made. Fortunately, with a Westernized PhD engineer as PM and former Baath senior military officer as Defense Minister, we are already seeing that the Iraqi military is in the best shape it's been in since 2003. That's saying a lot. Please, there's no need for nay-saying and insulting other countries that WE are responsible for fucking over. A patronage distribution system masquerading itself as an army will always depend on foreigners in the face of a dedicated foe, even if the foe in military terms is suicidal and retarded. Except the part where almost the entirety of the success has been due to the ISF, not foreigners, so this is a null point. And actually, ISIS makes every Islamic insurgent group combined look like a bunch of amateurs. I'd hardly call them "retarded" in military terms. On November 09 2014 12:50 pls no ty wrote: That Maliki guy. Wish i could put him in a same room with resurrected Saddam. With many aspects, i think he is the one who is responsible for civil war in Iraq, and no different than Saddam himself. I can still remember his haste to execute Saddam in the first day of main Sunni religious holiday. And those sectarian shouts: "Muqtada!" At least saddam knew how to run a country XD Even after the Iran-Iraq War, Iraq was among the top of the developing world in terms of HDI and other things before the embargo. Maliki was so bad, that even with infinite investment, he managed to turn Iraq into top 5 most corrupt in the world and unable to provide basic services. lol. Give that infinite investment to Saddam's government, and they would have made Iraq the 4th or 5th best country in Asia. He was a terrible guy, but he ran a tight ship and had a very effective government. Of course he himself was a stupid village idiot (literally), but the rest of the government was full of competent officials and technocrats. Ah, Muqtada's yet another crazy guy. He can join them and make a trio. | ||
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On November 09 2014 07:03 pls no ty wrote: Why dont you ask that to your beloved presidente, dear portuguese. I dont want to be bothered with your bullying replies whenever i post something, if you hate turks this much, go join PKK. xD don't be mad bro xD What does my president have to do with any of that? You should ask those questions to your president, its important for your country to clarify what they want of the region because the future of millions of people will depend on that. If you don't like the replies you can always ignore instead of replying.  You leave vague comments saying that PKK is worse than IS but don't care to explain or give any reason why. Most of your posts are bashing the Kurds and not commenting the topic at hand. You say i'm a hater but i'm just pointing the irony on that, News: Iraqi military forces have reached the center of the northern city of Baiji in an attempt to break an Islamic State siege of the country's biggest refinery nearby, an army colonel and a witness say US official confirms airstrikes targeted gathering of Islamic State leaders near Mosul, Iraq Editor's note: A U.S. Pentagon official has confirmed that airstrikes targeted Islamic State leaders meeting near Mosul, Iraq, yesterday, but it is unclear whether the group's preeminent figure, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, was present. We will update with any confirmed information. - Aaron Update: Iraqi government forces have seized large areas of the town of Baiji, home to Iraq's biggest oil refinery, from Islamic State fighters, officials say - @BBCNews | ||
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URfavHO
United States514 Posts
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pls no ty
86 Posts
If western media have focused on what PKK had done till now, for one day, you would be carrying the same hate that you have for ISIS. But of course, as long as its out of interest (!) western media (including some of ours) just dont care about the things they really really really care when those are ISIS related, [like mass killing, ethnic cleansing (pkk/kurdish) tribe wars etc etc. Vice News sucks hard because of this. 20 to 30 ISIS kurdish ISS supporters (told you about hezbollah in Turkey supports ISIS somehow) or lets say directly Kurdish Hezbollah members have been killed by PKK in Turkey, when curfew declared in 5 kurdish provinces. Those 20-30 members were mostly civilians and 1 was beheaded. Have we seen anything on media? Nope. This todays ally, tomorrows enemy tactic sickens me after Iraq. Arms provided by states like USA, TURKEY or whatever, somehow now in the hands of ISIS, we have seen this movie enough times, yet we say there is no other option anymore. No one is eager to send troops inside Syria, except Turkey with a selfish condition. Sometimes i think, what would happen if US did not enter Iraq, or Afghanistan.. http://rt.com/uk/203651-uk-suicide-bomber-isis/ | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
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Disregard
China10252 Posts
On November 09 2014 10:18 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: + Show Spoiler + Today's weapons and ammo seized by YPG in eastern Kobane. https://twitter.com/archicivilians/status/531174834747625472 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL2rsOL5hDc Why is that National Insurance card or whatever highlighted? | ||
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pls no ty
86 Posts
On November 10 2014 09:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: You are worried about PKK? Peshmerga is refusing Arabs to return to their homes in the far north of Iraq. The peshmerga is becoming as sectarian as ISIS. This is only going to make matters worse.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZXwt8CqizM Throughout the history, Kurds were always sectarians. Even in the mid-late Ottoman eras, while other racial minorities were living together peacefully, Sultans gave Kurds their Kurdistan and called them to arms when war-time only. This is fact. Do they have reasons? Were they always tyrannized? Not always, but yes. I think this is the main reason of their passive aggressive behavior. However, they were no different than Arabs, Iranians or Turks when they come to the power. They also massacred (1923, 1947, 1959 and in 1979 ) many Turks (turkmens) for converting purposes in Kirkuk. See: http://www.turkmen.nl/1A_Others/ali-kerkuklu.12-2011.pdf There is a strong kurdish nationalist movement that we will suffer in the close future, and their China rooted left mind is hilarious.(maoism) In TV's in Turkey, political part of PKK-YPG members briefly say US and other Imperialist powers armed ISIS. And when journalists question them about American help they received recently, they dont give any answers. Its like Game of Thrones with lower budget. xD We need to give them a nation or they will, you know... | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 10 2014 11:32 oneofthem wrote: same goes with any other minority groups. they need some good stomping. Nah, not really. Assyrians were pretty peaceful Christians who minded their own business and were victims of genocide by the Ottomans and Kurds (yes, the Kurds). Same goes for the Armenians and Pontic Greeks. But yeah, the point is 1) there were minority groups that didn't commit to insurgency and terrorism who were thoroughly "stomped", and 2) the Kurds were complicit in 3 major genocides. They were hardly "good guys". On November 10 2014 11:06 pls no ty wrote: Throughout the history, Kurds were always sectarians. Even in the mid-late Ottoman eras, while other racial minorities were living together peacefully, Sultans gave Kurds their Kurdistan and called them to arms when war-time only. This is fact. Do they have reasons? Were they always tyrannized? Not always, but yes. I think this is the main reason of their passive aggressive behavior. However, they were no different than Arabs, Iranians or Turks when they come to the power. They also massacred (1923, 1947, 1959 and in 1979 ) many Turks (turkmens) for converting purposes in Kirkuk. See: http://www.turkmen.nl/1A_Others/ali-kerkuklu.12-2011.pdf There is a strong kurdish nationalist movement that we will suffer in the close future, and their China rooted left mind is hilarious.(maoism) In TV's in Turkey, political part of PKK-YPG members briefly say US and other Imperialist powers armed ISIS. And when journalists question them about American help they received recently, they dont give any answers. Its like Game of Thrones with lower budget. xD We need to give them a nation or they will, you know... I know the history, but I'd prefer to look at current events in relation to the ISIS war. If they want sectarianism, this isn't a wise decision as they're almost unanimously opposed. Iraq is backed by Iran, USA, Russia, and some Arab and European countries. Turkey is backed by NATO. There is absolutely no wisdom in doing what they're doing. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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KwarK
United States44398 Posts
On November 10 2014 10:59 Disregard wrote: Why is that National Insurance card or whatever highlighted? It's a UK social security thing. Only the British carry them. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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ImFromPortugal
Portugal1368 Posts
On November 10 2014 09:37 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: You are worried about PKK? Peshmerga is refusing Arabs to return to their homes in the far north of Iraq. The peshmerga is becoming as sectarian as ISIS. This is only going to make matters worse.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZXwt8CqizM Sry if i missed anything but the only person i seen in that video that said he didn't want the Arabs that helped ISIS back was a random resident, and i don't think he is peshmerga but if you have any articles talking about that i would like to read. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On November 10 2014 18:00 ImFromPortugal wrote: Sry if i missed anything but the only person i seen in that video that said he didn't want the Arabs that helped ISIS back was a random resident, and i don't think he is peshmerga but if you have any articles talking about that i would like to read. You do realize, as far as Peshmerga and Kurdish nationalists (which includes Rudaw, which is very nationalistic media and very anti-Arab) are concerned, the Arabs are ALL complicit with ISIS? Contrary to common myths, Kurdish nationalists are pretty bigoted people. They had riots in August supporting to purge the Arabs from the Kurdistan region. KRG doesn't like to release census ethnic breakdown results, so there's no exact figure, but good luck removing 100,000s of people. Then again, before the US media started glorifying them in the 1990s to oppose and snub Saddam, no one even knew what a Kurd was. lol They've been banning Arabs from entering Kurdish controlled towns. So it makes perfect sense that they wouldn't allow Arabs refugees or returning people to enter. Here's one article about Kurdish banning entrance to Arabs. They don't allow any Arabs in because in nationalistic logic, Arab = ISIS. http://www.latimes.com/world/middleeast/la-fg-iraq-arabs-20141020-story.html Considering many of the people in the Kurdistan Region aren't even Kurds, and many are Arab, you can see how their policies are rather counter-productive and pretty sectarian. | ||
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