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Thread is about the various issues surrounding Japan in the aftermath of the recent earthquake. Don't bring the shit side of the internet to the thread, and post with the realization that this thread is very important, and very real, to your fellow members.
Do not post speculative and unconfirmed news you saw on TV or anywhere else. Generally the more dramatic it sounds the less likely it's true. |
On March 15 2011 20:05 Dimagus wrote:CPM? You're going to make heads explode in this thread now.
A Geiger counter tells you how many radiation particles passes through the counter, but that is all it tells you. The other unit that people are throwing around, Sievert, is a measurement of how much damage you are taking from the radiation. That value depends not only on how many particles you absorb (which is what the Geiger counter tells you), but the energy of the particles and the type of particles.
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On March 15 2011 20:09 Maggeus wrote:
CPM = counts per minute.
CPM can't be converted to Curie if you don't know what type of radiation it is. Meaning it's totally meaningless to use it when you don't know what source of radioactivity it is.
Meaning it's not interesting at all, apart from the fact you could see some variations, but you wouldn't know what that mean. :/
Well if they've found caesium around the first reactor, couldn't we use that to determine the source. As for the isotope, it's probably caesium-137. Granted, I don't know the reliability of this site, but it declares:
For those who prefer to use Sieverts, 108 CPM is about 1 uSv/hr for C060, and for Cs137 it is around 120 CPM per 1 uSv/hr.
Which would be pretty close to ~0.32 uSv/hr?... or is it not possible to convert this way?
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Germany may have its own nuclear power agenda, but people forget that the only reason this situation occurred is because it was a two-fold disaster (earthquake + tsunami) that took out the backups.
The earthquake forced an auto-shutdown of the reactors, removing the primary power, and then the tsunami (which hit land less than 20 minutes later) damaged the backup diesel generators. After that there was only emergency batteries that would last for 8 hours, and they weren't enough to operate cooling systems for 3 reactors. More batteries and mobile generators reached the plant 13 hours later, but they couldn't connect the generators because the switching equipment was in the basement, which was flooded by the tsunami.
Insufficient power led to insufficient cooling which led to a heat and pressure buildup and the current situation.
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On March 15 2011 20:19 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:05 Dimagus wrote:CPM? You're going to make heads explode in this thread now. A Geiger counter tells you how many radiation particles passes through the counter, but that is all it tells you. The other unit that people are throwing around, Sievert, is a measurement of how much damage you are taking from the radiation. That value depends not only on how many particles you absorb (which is what the Geiger counter tells you), but the energy of the particles and the type of particles.
Okay, so that stream is totally useless then. He has it on by his window, which I presume is closed as per government instructions...
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Is there any donation ? something like last time 10 dollars ? I would love to help brothers ninjas in bad times.
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On March 15 2011 20:23 Dimagus wrote:
Germany may have its own nuclear power agenda, but people forget that the only reason this situation occurred is because it was a two-fold disaster (earthquake + tsunami) that took out the backups.
The earthquake forced an auto-shutdown of the reactors, removing the primary power, and then the tsunami (which hit land less than 20 minutes later) damaged the backup diesel generators. After that there was only emergency batteries that would last for 8 hours, and they weren't enough to operate cooling systems for 3 reactors. More batteries and mobile generators reached the plant 13 hours later, but they couldn't connect the generators because the switching equipment was in the basement, which was flooded by the tsunami.
Insufficient power led to insufficient cooling which led to a heat and pressure buildup and the current situation.
That was pretty interesting, I didn't know their switching equipment was flooded. Orignally I thought it was pretty big fail that they bought in generator with completely different plug/spec.
These are valuable expereinces for the whole world to learn.
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On March 15 2011 20:11 dump wrote:I hate to get political here, but if you look back at some of the older posts, it's clear that there's a reason there's so much fear mongering coming from Germany: there's a lot of lobbying going back and forth. On issues where we have no credible and understandable scientific information, we're probably going to have to resort to the simple assumption that the doomsday scenarios are likely politicized.
This.
But be sure that we know this fact here. Its hard to distinguish yellow press from serious facts, even if you read "Der Spiegel" or "Die Zeit" (name any news media).
Thats one reason I turned off my TV and try to get 1st hand information on the situation.
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On March 15 2011 20:09 Fenrax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:01 Manifesto7 wrote:On March 15 2011 19:49 VabuDeltaKaiser wrote:
Lets get to worst case: Meltdown reaches a critical mass, critical temperature, you can have an actual nuclear bomb like explosion. The chances are low, still this is the worst case. Mostly because it yet didnt happen, it is unlikely.
resul: you know hiroshima http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12732015Could there be a nuclear explosion? No. A nuclear bomb and a nuclear reactor are different things. Shut the fuck up. Stop fear mongering. But they win. Germany powers down seven Nuclear plants and very probably withdraws from Nuclear Power technology very soon completely. Important regional elections are soon and arguments (like ... that there are no Earthquakes in Germany) won't win these elections.
You totaly mix two different topics.
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On March 15 2011 20:27 NIIINO wrote:
Is there any donation ? something like last time 10 dollars ? I would love to help brothers ninjas in bad times.
Probably the easiest and safest way (as far as not being scammed) that I can find for someone outside the US would be through the British Red Cross.
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Osaka27151 Posts
On March 15 2011 20:27 NIIINO wrote:
Is there any donation ? something like last time 10 dollars ? I would love to help brothers ninjas in bad times.
http://members.canpan.info/kikin/
Read about anything you donate to first.
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On March 15 2011 20:23 Dimagus wrote:
The earthquake forced an auto-shutdown of the reactors, removing the primary power, and then the tsunami (which hit land less than 20 minutes later) damaged the backup diesel generators. After that there was only emergency batteries that would last for 8 hours, and they weren't enough to operate cooling systems for 3 reactors. More batteries and mobile generators reached the plant 13 hours later, but they couldn't connect the generators because the switching equipment was in the basement, which was flooded by the tsunami.
Insufficient power led to insufficient cooling which led to a heat and pressure buildup and the current situation.
Thanks, this has to be the most well-written summary of the cause.
On March 15 2011 20:27 NIIINO wrote:
Is there any donation ? something like last time 10 dollars ? I would love to help brothers ninjas in bad times.
We're discussing a fundraising tournament in another thread. Would very much appreciate any and all kinds of help.
On March 15 2011 20:30 naim wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:11 dump wrote:I hate to get political here, but if you look back at some of the older posts, it's clear that there's a reason there's so much fear mongering coming from Germany: there's a lot of lobbying going back and forth. On issues where we have no credible and understandable scientific information, we're probably going to have to resort to the simple assumption that the doomsday scenarios are likely politicized. This. But be sure that we know this fact here. Its hard to distinguish yellow press from serious facts, even if you read "Der Spiegel" or "Die Zeit" (name any news media). Thats one reason I turned off my TV and try to get 1st hand information on the situation.
Yeah, it's a shame. Being in the media industry myself I'd normally tell people to watch as much news as possible, left right and center, to try to figure out what people's motives are and deduce and infer the truth, but nuclear physics is just way over my head and probably most others'...
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On March 15 2011 19:57 dump wrote:
A little bit off-topic, but reading the twitter feed on NHK is really disappointing.
We've always been notoriously xenophobic, but right now it's in full swing with people seeming to believe that the Japanese are the only people in Asia capable of compassion.
The exceptionalism needs to stop.
Yeah, it's really sad that in the year 2011 so many still seem to believe there are big differences between inhabitants of countries. We're all human, we're all the same. We're all good inside because anything but being good is against evolution, which is impossible. When will people learn to understand that? I fucking don't get it. We all go to school and read about it.
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On March 15 2011 20:30 furymonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:23 Dimagus wrote:
Germany may have its own nuclear power agenda, but people forget that the only reason this situation occurred is because it was a two-fold disaster (earthquake + tsunami) that took out the backups.
The earthquake forced an auto-shutdown of the reactors, removing the primary power, and then the tsunami (which hit land less than 20 minutes later) damaged the backup diesel generators. After that there was only emergency batteries that would last for 8 hours, and they weren't enough to operate cooling systems for 3 reactors. More batteries and mobile generators reached the plant 13 hours later, but they couldn't connect the generators because the switching equipment was in the basement, which was flooded by the tsunami.
Insufficient power led to insufficient cooling which led to a heat and pressure buildup and the current situation. That was pretty interesting, I didn't know their switching equipment was flooded. Orignally I thought it was pretty big fail that they bought in generator with completely different plug/spec. These are valuable expereinces for the whole world to learn.
Actually if that is what occurred I find it really troubling. A two-fold disaster? A tsunami and an earth quake of that magnitude, which naturally go hand in hand, were to be expected in Japan at one time or another. Switching equipment in the basement sounds like a horrible idea. I guess some heads must role after that event.
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I am not sure if this link have been posted before: http://mitnse.com/
Quite easy to understand explanation about what happened in the nuclear plant and what damage can be done by it. As far as i understand the whole thing is maintained by people that understand what are they talking about.
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On March 15 2011 20:23 Sky wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:09 Maggeus wrote:
CPM = counts per minute.
CPM can't be converted to Curie if you don't know what type of radiation it is. Meaning it's totally meaningless to use it when you don't know what source of radioactivity it is.
Meaning it's not interesting at all, apart from the fact you could see some variations, but you wouldn't know what that mean. :/ Well if they've found caesium around the first reactor, couldn't we use that to determine the source. As for the isotope, it's probably caesium-137. Granted, I don't know the reliability of this site, but it declares: Show nested quote +For those who prefer to use Sieverts, 108 CPM is about 1 uSv/hr for C060, and for Cs137 it is around 120 CPM per 1 uSv/hr. Which would be pretty close to ~0.32 uSv/hr?... or is it not possible to convert this way?
The release from the reactor will contain a huge mess of different substances. Cs-137 is probably mentioned because it's a long term threat (and was the main source of long term radioactivity in Chernobyl). Short term other substances dominate the radiation emission, so the number of counts in your Geiger counter will mostly be from substances other than Cs-137.
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On March 15 2011 19:57 dump wrote:
A little bit off-topic, but reading the twitter feed on NHK is really disappointing.
We've always been notoriously xenophobic, but right now it's in full swing with people seeming to believe that the Japanese are the only people in Asia capable of compassion.
The exceptionalism needs to stop.
Call me racist if you will but aside from Japan, and maybe Korea and Switzerland, I don't see any other country doing this. Look at the US or Europe, when something like this happens you have panic and looting. In order for a nation to react the way Japan does there needs to be a high standard of living and education, which, sadly, is only present in a very few countries.
OT: I find all the info too confusing. No one seems to be able to provide any digestible information about the reactor.
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Reading other forum. someone said:
"Radiation too high for TEPCO personnel to stay in Fukushima nuke plant control rooms "
Any confirm on that? from news sites?
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On March 15 2011 20:56 Grettin wrote:
"Radiation too high for TEPCO personnel to stay in Fukushima nuke plant control rooms "
Kyodo news put that information too, so it seems.
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^^I've read the same but I have no credible sources.
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On March 15 2011 20:50 hugman wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2011 20:23 Sky wrote:On March 15 2011 20:09 Maggeus wrote:
CPM = counts per minute.
CPM can't be converted to Curie if you don't know what type of radiation it is. Meaning it's totally meaningless to use it when you don't know what source of radioactivity it is.
Meaning it's not interesting at all, apart from the fact you could see some variations, but you wouldn't know what that mean. :/ Well if they've found caesium around the first reactor, couldn't we use that to determine the source. As for the isotope, it's probably caesium-137. Granted, I don't know the reliability of this site, but it declares: For those who prefer to use Sieverts, 108 CPM is about 1 uSv/hr for C060, and for Cs137 it is around 120 CPM per 1 uSv/hr. Which would be pretty close to ~0.32 uSv/hr?... or is it not possible to convert this way? The release from the reactor will contain a huge mess of different substances. Cs-137 is probably mentioned because it's a long term threat (and was the main source of long term radioactivity in Chernobyl). Short term other substances dominate the radiation emission, so the number of counts in your Geiger counter will mostly be from substances other than Cs-137.
It depends on the exact composition of the fallout, but Iodine will certainly dominate over Caesium at this time.
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EPT
