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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:24 Pika Chu wrote: Excuse me but when i said americans i was thinking of US government not the american citizens. I know, I know, I was being playful. I almost put a  at the end of the sentence. Probably should have. | ||
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:29 Clare wrote: I don't understand what's going on really. The US is attacking Libya now? What? Yes. Enforcing a no-fly zone (Which is part of the UN resolution that was passed two days ago) is pretty much an act of war. | ||
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Hans-Titan
Denmark1711 Posts
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Aurocaido
Canada288 Posts
I don't know there are a number of reasons that might not be a possible course of action. Edit: This thread moves along quickly, this is a response to cookies. | ||
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progeny
Sweden43 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:18 zizou21 wrote: Meanwhile, in Bahrain... Same thing happens in Yemen, snipers killing 52 demonstrators yesterday. I just have this feeling that the west saw the oppertunity to get rid of Ghadaffi and are trying to take it. Trying to cover up the somewhat dirty past they have with him by trying to force him away. | ||
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
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xarthaz
1704 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:26 Nightfall.589 wrote: Fear (And lies) are a good way to keep people in line. The guy's also off his rocker. You can find some pretty conclusive evidence for that in this thread. Direct quotes of him, no less. Fear is ineffective. Slaves work way more efficiently when they dont know they are slaves. Hence the employment of religion(divine right) and nationalism(democracy, fascism) as an ideological justification for state action. This has all been done for thousands of years now, Gaddafi being an experienced dictator would seem absurd to break the mold of what works more efficiently. | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:31 Aurocaido wrote: Because there is no need for the contract? Because a state said no to foreign contracts in the first place? Because the population of the donating state said no? I don't know there are a number of reasons that might not be a possible course of action. But there's so many other countries to choose from, I hardly think they'd have to be agressive with it (foreign investment is generally a good thing). Again, the cost to the government sustaining the war is probably a lot more than what the companies recieve from contracts (paid by the government). I'll pray to god I'm not misusing this phrase for once (I'm 1-4 so far) and say Occam's Razor; yes, they could be using the war as a cover-up to transfer funds to greedy corporate contracters exploiting the common good of man, but every country called a bluff to the scheme, so now the corrupt politicians pushed for a war so they could satisfy their corporate masters etc etc....or it could just be we suspected WMDs/wanted Oil/ wanted to liberate Iraq/whatever reason a military intervention would be plausible. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:38 xarthaz wrote: Fear is ineffective. Slaves work way more efficiently when they dont know they are slaves. Hence the employment of religion(divine right) and nationalism(democracy, fascism) as an ideological justification for state action. This has all been done for thousands of years now, Gaddafi being an experienced dictator would seem absurd to break the mold of what works more efficiently. Yea, because in the history of the world no dictator has ever killed a significant portion of their own population. Oh, wait... The fact that Ghadaffi has been resorting to force is all the more reason to believe that he is on the verge of loosing control and that the uprising against him is in fact a popular movement. If it really was 3 rebels high on drugs given to them by Al-Quaida there'd be no need to deploy an army against them. When a dictator is using violence on a large scale, it is either to retalliate against a part of the population that is treathening his power, or to take vengeance on those that tried. Next to that listing democracy as a form of nationalism is plainly ignorant. | ||
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Kukaracha
France1954 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:15 Pika Chu wrote: I told that and will keep telling. They aren't going to stand up for Gaddafi, they are going to stand up for Libya. That's what happens when you find your country at war with foreign forces. Huh... at war with foreign forces? I don't get it, so the rebels just disappeared and now it's Libya versus the UN? Or was it ironic? I don't think the UN will send troops, they'll mist likely rely on tactical strikes while supplying the rebels with weapons... it's still an act of war but hardly an invasion. People in the west of Libya celebrated UN involvment and I guess cities like Misrata must see some kind of relief in this. | ||
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DarkGeneral
Canada328 Posts
Gaddafi? Rebel? UK/FR/etc? | ||
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DrGreen
Poland708 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:53 DarkGeneral wrote: Anyone figure out who's jet was it that got shot down? Gaddafi? Rebel? UK/FR/etc? Libyan TV claims it was French jet. French government does not confirm that. | ||
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Aurocaido
Canada288 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:41 ManyCookies wrote: But there's so many other countries to choose from, I hardly think they'd have to be agressive with it (foreign investment is generally a good). Again, the cost to the government sustaining the war is probably a lot more than what the companies recieve from contracts (paid by the government). I'll pray to god I'm not misusing this phrase for once (I'm 1-4 so far) and say Occam's Razor; yes, they could be using the war as a cover-up to transfer funds to greedy corporate contracters exploiting the common good of man, but every country called a bluff to the scheme, so now the corrupt politicians pushed for a war so they could satisfy their corporate masters etc etc....or it could just be we suspected WMDs/wanted Oil/ wanted to liberate Iraq/whatever reason a military intervention would be plausible. Lol I think you are now 2-5 with that expression. We are starting to digress from the thread a little bit so I will say my peace on the subject and leave it at that. I don't think Occam's Razor is the correct way of looking at the Iraq situation. The invasion being based simply on WMDs/ Democracy seems way to simplistic. To not take into account outside/corporate influences I think is a mistake. | ||
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
On March 20 2011 07:53 DarkGeneral wrote: Anyone figure out who's jet was it that got shot down? Gaddafi? Rebel? UK/FR/etc? If you're talking about the one shot down over benghazi earlier today, it was a rebel airplane shot down by the rebels themselves, according to both Al-Jazeera and Le Monde. Turns out they can actually hit something. The libyans have stated that they shot down a french aircraft, but the french report that all planes have been accounted for. I call BS on that statement from the libyans too. Next to that: US government spokesperson claiming that Libyan anti-air capabilities have been (largely) destroyed. | ||
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DrGreen
Poland708 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Wow! @ShababLibya just reported that ALL Gaddafi troops in Zintan have joined the revolution! #Libya | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
Is Zintan a major city? | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
Where was US and UN (honestly is there any difference?) in Rwanda and Bosnia? Like always, after everything has happened they show up to clear their conscience and try to show that they actually "care about humanity". | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
@Auro, I'll leave it at in the context of the discussion, you implied that it was one of the primary reasons of the U.S.A invading Iraq, comparing it to invading a country to install a puppet leader. Obviously, once the foothold was established and it was clear the effort would need contracters, then it's certainly possible U.S contracters recieved preference over local workers. But as a reason for invading the country in the first place, it's just far too inefficient for me to believe. | ||
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Grettin
42393 Posts
Good choice. Could be hard to fight against European and US forces. | ||
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