EPTLibyan Uprising - Page 69
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Off topic discussion and argumentative back and forth will not be tolerated. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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DorN
Germany90 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:03 Bleak wrote: Haha, so much for Obama's press confererence. Where was US and UN (honestly is there any difference?) in Rwanda and Bosnia? Like always, after everything has happened they show up to clear their conscience and try to show that they actually "care about humanity". UN intentionally lowered the amount of peacekeeping personnel in Rwanda after the genocide started. They tried to stop the French general who tried to help people getting slaughtered there. Dutch UN peacekeepers in Bosnia didn't do shit while 7000-8000 Bosnian Man were slaughtered and woman raped. In 100 days 800,000 people died in Rwanda, French was suspicious of the genocide and did nothing (oh I forgot, they supplied Hutus with artillery to kill Tutsis), UN and US didn't give a shit back then. So, right now they are all angels with halos over their head, fighting to stop human rights violations? Bullshit.. All I see is hypocrisy and lies. So what is you point ? | ||
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Mofisto
United Kingdom585 Posts
The Libyan leader said he would arm civilians to defend the country from what he called "colonial, crusader" aggression by Western forces. "We call on the peoples and citizens of the Arab and Islamic nations, Latin America, Asia and Africa to stand by the heroic Libyan people to confront this aggression, which will only increase the Libyan people's strength, firmness and unity," he added Al-Jazeera TV reports that Libyan authorities have detained four of its journalists, one of them British, in western Libya. The other correspondents are Tunisian, Mauritanian and Norwegian. The team were reporting from Libya for several days, the network said. Spain has sent four F-18 fighter jets and a refueling aircraft to Italy to take part in the operation over Libya from Sunday, reports AFP Col Gaddafi's air defences have been "severely disabled" by a barrage of missile strikes, reports Reuters quoting an anonymous US national security official. "Gaddafi's air defense systems have been severely disabled. It's too soon to predict what he and his ground forces may do in response to today's strikes," said the source The AFP news agency reports that the Libyan government has demanded an urgent meeting of the UN Security Council. Tomahawk missile being fire earlier tonight: ![[image loading]](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01852/tomahawk-firing_1852717c.jpg) | ||
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ManyCookies
1164 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:03 Bleak wrote: Haha, so much for Obama's press confererence. Where was US and UN (honestly is there any difference?) in Rwanda and Bosnia? Like always, after everything has happened they show up to clear their conscience and try to show that they actually "care about humanity". UN intentionally lowered the amount of peacekeeping personnel in Rwanda after the genocide started. They tried to stop the French general who tried to help people getting slaughtered there. Dutch UN peacekeepers in Bosnia didn't do shit while 7000-8000 Bosnian Man were slaughtered and woman raped. In 100 days 800,000 people died in Rwanda, French was suspicious of the genocide and did nothing (oh I forgot, they supplied Hutus with artillery to kill Tutsis), UN and US didn't give a shit back then. So, right now they are all angels with halos over their head, fighting to stop human rights violations? Bullshit.. All I see is hypocrisy and lies. I know it sucks, but that's kind of how the world works. As Iraq showed, it is damn expensive supporting and defending a country after an invasion, both economically and politically (prestige, credibility, patriotism, etc.). We had to sustain a large presense in Japan for ages after winning WWII (although that paid back in the long run). The French/UN didn't exactly approve of the genocide, but Rwanda was a lot more unstable and divided (tribal conflicts) than Libya currently is. The best they could do was basically set up a safe zone for refugees. We just can't do everything simply by throwing enough troops/peace corps/aid/Rambo at a problem and make it vanish. We have to pick our battles, and so we pick the ones that are most likely to have some sort of positive outcome. Which is selfish, yes, but also the best we can do. | ||
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Bleak
Turkey3059 Posts
The point is that UN is a big lie if you want to talk about world peace, human rights etc etc...It just serves the superpowers' benefits. The concept of humanitarian intervention is not an accepted principle in international law. It is very vague and dangerous, open to interpretation. This move on Libya is nothing but simply, aggression, humanity is just there to cover the lies. The real point of that post was to show that if UN and USA cared so much about humanity, then what happened in Rwanda and Bosnia should not have happened. So much for their "super" powers... | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:18 Bleak wrote: The point is that UN is a big lie if you want to talk about world peace, human rights etc etc...It just serves the superpowers' benefits. The concept of humanitarian intervention is not an accepted principle in international law. It is very vague and dangerous, open to interpretation. This move on Libya is nothing but simply, aggression, humanity is just there to cover the lies. The real point of that post was to show that if UN and USA cared so much about humanity, then what happened in Rwanda and Bosnia should not have happened. So much for their "super" powers... The only legitimate lines of criticism is either that it makes things worse or that it is against the wishes of the Libian people as a whole. If you think either of these is true, argue on those grounds. If you think it's not, please chose a better example of hypocrisy in foreign policy. It's not like they're exactly hard to find. | ||
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BeJe77
United States377 Posts
This is a bit off topic, but I just can't stand it, it pisses me off when people do this because of the western media....The Bosnia vs Serbia vs Croatia conflict...I love it how people always mention just the Bosnian people who were hurt or killed, but nobody EVER mentions the Serbians who were massacred/raped/had their houses burned and pillaged who lived in Bosnia, we can repeat this by the thousands.....My family is Serbian and were victims in the war because they lived in Bosnia, on the first night of the war, Bosnian troops came to our home town, rounded up the men and took them to jail, executed family members in front of us but hey nobody mentions this and why???? Because Serbia was supported by Russia while Bosnia was supported by the West....but whatever HYPOCRITICAL West as always.....Sure there were bad guys on Serbian side who actually did bad shit, but there were equally number of bad people on the Bosnian side as well as Croatian...But it's Serbia who get's brunt of the blame because we are Russian backed.... But to stay on topic and not take this away from Libya: The U.N./NATO/ or whatever organizations you call them are WORTHLESS. They are nothing but a bureaucratic organization that just hampers themselves. It's always a single country that makes effort to do something and then later all the other ones follow in line. FOR U.N./NATO to move this quickly was a damn miracle... If you want a ORGANIZATION that actually polices the world against genocide, crimes and war then what you need is a lean machine with the man power and financial resources to do it as well as independence to make their decisions on the move...In their current form, NATO/U.N. is worthless except to just argue and talk. | ||
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Jerax
Canada189 Posts
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Derez
Netherlands6068 Posts
- UAE contributing 24 fighters, Qatar between 4 and 6. | ||
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Mofisto
United Kingdom585 Posts
Libya suspends cooperation with Europe in the fight against illegal immigration, reports the AFP news agency. Libyan state television says the "crusader enemy" has hit a hospital in Tripoli and fuel storage tanks that supplied the third city of Misrata. Sites in Sirte, Zuwara and Benghazi were also reportedly hit. Residents of Misrata told the Reuters news agency that the air and missile strikes had targeted a military air base. Libyans in Benghazi, effectively the capital of the rebellion, tell Reuters they welcome the air and missile strikes against the forces of their ruler. Khalid al-Ghurfaly, 38, a civil servant, says: "We salute, France, Britain, the United States and the Arab countries for standing with Libya. But we think Gaddafi will take out his anger on civilians. So the West has to hit him hard." | ||
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sigma_x
Australia285 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:03 Bleak wrote: Haha, so much for Obama's press confererence. Where was US and UN (honestly is there any difference?) in Rwanda and Bosnia? Like always, after everything has happened they show up to clear their conscience and try to show that they actually "care about humanity". No doubt this is true. However, the events that happened in Rwanda and Bosnia both are lessons learnt on why the UN must act in the Libyan crisis. The doctrine, "Responsibility to protect", on which the current UN resolution is predicated, is one born from precisely the UN's failure to act on genocide in Rwanda. Essentially, the doctrine says that States have as a last resort, the power to use military action to prevent genocide/crimes against humanity. It is not a perfect situation, and it opens itself to the criticism of selective aggression. But as the common response goes, "better than nothing". | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On March 20 2011 05:14 ComusLoM wrote: Wonder if they'll try to assassinate Gadaffi. It seems like the cheap and dirty way to (hopefully) stop this with minimum cost. It's probably the cleanest way to end this messy affair, but I'm sure Gadaffi knows that as well. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On March 20 2011 08:18 Bleak wrote: The point is that UN is a big lie if you want to talk about world peace, human rights etc etc...It just serves the superpowers' benefits. The concept of humanitarian intervention is not an accepted principle in international law. It is very vague and dangerous, open to interpretation. This move on Libya is nothing but simply, aggression, humanity is just there to cover the lies. The real point of that post was to show that if UN and USA cared so much about humanity, then what happened in Rwanda and Bosnia should not have happened. So much for their "super" powers... Well that was kind of a given. I don't get what people like you want to achieve with your cynicism. So until every politician in the world truly acts out of benign charity you're just going to whine about it on the internet? Yes, the world is self-interested. Chances are, so are you and 90% of the posters on this site. So stow the self righteousness. | ||
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:00 sigma_x wrote: No doubt this is true. However, the events that happened in Rwanda and Bosnia both are lessons learnt on why the UN must act in the Libyan crisis. The doctrine, "Responsibility to protect", on which the current UN resolution is predicated, is one born from precisely the UN's failure to act on genocide in Rwanda. Essentially, the doctrine says that States have as a last resort, the power to use military action to prevent genocide/crimes against humanity. It is not a perfect situation, and it opens itself to the criticism of selective aggression. But as the common response goes, "better than nothing". I feel a little ambivalent about posting this as I don't know enough about the issue to be authoritative. All of this comes from Jarred Diamond's book Collapse. He gives pre-genocide Rwanda as an example of a Malthusian catastrophe. He quotes data on average farm sizes that were decreasing (as it was divided between the sons) and were reaching levels where they didn't provide enough to survive on any more. In his view the majority of population was facing famine in the long term and knew it. It's a chilling picture and if accurate, really puts things in perspective. How do you stop people from killing each other, if killing their neighbour and taking his land is the only way they can ensure they'll have enough to eat next year? I know it's a little off topic, but maybe not completely. Not all atrocities are equally easy to stop. | ||
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Zerokaiser
Canada885 Posts
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Grettin
42394 Posts
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jello_biafra
United Kingdom6641 Posts
On March 20 2011 09:36 Zerokaiser wrote: Aye. Canada is officially at war with Gaddafi now. Looks like we're entering another dozen years of bombing the east and strangling progress in the west. The situation should be resolved within a matter of months, Gaddafi will be deposed and probably hanged and some kind of new government will be installed. This is a war against a maniacal despot not the Arab world. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
RAF Tornado's have flown a 3000 mile mission to bomb targets in #Libya, longest bombing mission since the Falkland war. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4412 Posts
Thats not including the number killed or injured through the USAs use of depleted uranium shells. Where are the sanctions against the USA and others who participated in the illegal Iraq war? The reason givewn for attacking Iraq was to find the WMDs even though Hans Blix and his team could not find anything. Where are the sanctions against Israel for invading Lebanon a couple years back? UN and NATO are just arms of western imperialism , the world would be a better place without them. User was warned for this post | ||
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kamikami
France1057 Posts
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