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LazyMacro
976 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:47 hifriend wrote: Got a dental bill at $500 last month, made me realize just how awesome free healthcare is. u_u I'm sorry, but it's this attitude that drives me nuts. It's not free! Do you think that dentist will do $500 of work for free because it's "free healthcare"? No, of course not. I'm paying for it. You're paying for it. Everyone else is, too. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:54 goiflin wrote: Actually, you have car insurance to pay Tom Hanks 200,000 dollars if you t-bone his brand new car. Many states make it illegal to drive without insurance even if you completely own your car and have the money to pay for liability in case of accidents. For some people, the most compelling reason to have insurance is not to have car towed or going to jail. The same is true for Massachusetts and health insurance. People are forced into buying affordable health insurance in Massachusetts or face paying an equally daunting fine. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:51 goiflin wrote: Not every country has free dental, even if they have free healthcare. Canada doesn't. Unless it's life threatening dental-infection, I'd imagine. Then we'd get it for free. Pulling teeth, though? Not covered. Any europeans want to tell us about their dental situations? How about optical? It's not free here  I have free health care, but not dental. As is commonly the case in Europe. Wasn't really trying to make a point or anything. ^^ On January 26 2011 04:25 LazyMacro wrote: I'm glad the Republicans did this. The Obamacare bill needs to go away. It's not right for the government to tell me I have to buy a product or service. It's just plain wrong. And it's not cheap, and it's not free. I'm sorry, but it's this attitude that drives me nuts. It's not free! Do you think that dentist will do $500 of work for free because it's "free healthcare"? No, of course not. I'm paying for it. You're paying for it. Everyone else is, too. Government funded health care is financed through taxes? Mind = blown. | ||
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BroodjeBaller
125 Posts
Some people are so simple, selfish and short minded. | ||
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Rasva_Pallo
Finland126 Posts
Second, there is no free healthcare instead of individuals paying for their own healthcare every1 pays for every1s healthcare this is the way in Finland too. I think it is good when some1 injures in accident, but it also discourages people to take care of their own health because they don't need worry about the hospital bills. | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:25 LazyMacro wrote: I'm glad the Republicans did this. The Obamacare bill needs to go away. It's not right for the government to tell me I have to buy a product or service. It's just plain wrong. And it's not cheap, and it's not free. I'm sorry, but it's this attitude that drives me nuts. It's not free! Do you think that dentist will do $500 of work for free because it's "free healthcare"? No, of course not. I'm paying for it. You're paying for it. Everyone else is, too. The government forces you to buy the service of education does not it? Roads aren't free. Do you think the government would have have you not pay taxes in exchange for promising never to use their roads? This health care is 'unconstitutional' argument is pretty tenuous. | ||
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Apexplayer
United States406 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:25 LazyMacro wrote: I'm glad the Republicans did this. The Obamacare bill needs to go away. It's not right for the government to tell me I have to buy a product or service. It's just plain wrong. And it's not cheap, and it's not free. I'm sorry, but it's this attitude that drives me nuts. It's not free! Do you think that dentist will do $500 of work for free because it's "free healthcare"? No, of course not. I'm paying for it. You're paying for it. Everyone else is, too. It's not the "Obama care bill" this is the recent changes. Basically stuff like updating insurance policies, increasing medicare aid. And stopping insurance companies from increasing premiums without warning or valid reason.... .... | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:32 Consolidate wrote: The government forces you to buy the service of education does not it? Roads aren't free. Do you think the government would have have you not pay taxes in exchange for promising never to use their roads? This health care is 'unconstitutional' argument is pretty tenuous. Tenuous? There's a big difference between the government taxing you and providing services with that tax money and the government forcing you to buy a product from a private company. What if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to go buy a gun or face imprisonment or a fine." Better yet, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to guy a gun from Smith & Wesson." If you don't like the gun example, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you to go buy a car from GM every 5 years or face fines." Do you see the problem yet? | ||
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Electric.Jesus
Germany755 Posts
On January 26 2011 03:48 xDaunt wrote: Here's an excerpt from a paper that I wrote on the subject: Err, should I laugh or cry at this? Of course the §expensive patients" cause more costs. That's why they are called "expensive", in the first place. This is like a car insurance company saying: "Those idiots that have accidents cost us much more than people who dont't". Go figure. The whole idea of health insurance is that you pay money into a big pool because you can then afford treatment that is expensive. You risk paying more than you get out, at the same time, if you are lucky enough not to suffer from serious illness. The solution is not to kick out the poeple who cost too much, obviously, because that would make the whole idea pointless. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:37 xDaunt wrote: Tenuous? There's a big difference between the government taxing you and providing services with that tax money and the government forcing you to buy a product from a private company. What if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to go buy a gun or face imprisonment or a fine." Better yet, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to guy a gun from Smith & Wesson." If you don't like the gun example, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you to go buy a car from GM every 5 years or face fines." Do you see the problem yet? This would only have a valid point if the healthcare companies didn't have to change any of their own policies. Heathcare companies are also forced to provide certain people with healthcare at reasonable prices. It's not nearly as simple as the government saying "You have to buy health insurance." Sorry, the issue is actually more complicated than that. | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
Health care mandate is unconstitutional. The federal government has no such power in the Constitution, but I don't think the federal government feels at all constrained by the Constitution. I'd put some effort into arguing constitutionality if I felt that it was going to be respect at all. | ||
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Electric.Jesus
Germany755 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:25 LazyMacro wrote: I'm glad the Republicans did this. The Obamacare bill needs to go away. It's not right for the government to tell me I have to buy a product or service. It's just plain wrong. And it's not cheap, and it's not free. I'm sorry, but it's this attitude that drives me nuts. It's not free! Do you think that dentist will do $500 of work for free because it's "free healthcare"? No, of course not. I'm paying for it. You're paying for it. Everyone else is, too. Yes, please listen to what this guy says. Healthcare is never free. It is merely the question who pays for it and whether everyone pays the same amount ot whether you pay according to your income. | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:37 xDaunt wrote: Tenuous? There's a big difference between the government taxing you and providing services with that tax money and the government forcing you to buy a product from a private company. What if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to go buy a gun or face imprisonment or a fine." Better yet, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you have to guy a gun from Smith & Wesson." If you don't like the gun example, what if the government said, "Hey, all of you to go buy a car from GM every 5 years or face fines." Do you see the problem yet? Where in the bill does the government force you to buy private health insurance? | ||
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LazyMacro
976 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:43 Electric.Jesus wrote: Yes, please listen to what this guy says. Healthcare is never free. It is merely the question who pays for it and whether everyone pays the same amount ot whether you pay according to your income. This is one of the largest moral hazard in UK, Canada, Sweden, and France. It's a huge moral hazard in any other government sponsored health care plan. Care to spell out how these government plans deal with people not having to pay for the health care they elect to receive? | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:43 DoubleReed wrote: This would only have a valid point if the healthcare companies didn't have to change any of their own policies. Heathcare companies are also forced to provide certain people with healthcare at reasonable prices. It's not nearly as simple as the government saying "You have to buy health insurance." Sorry, the issue is actually more complicated than that. I thought liberals were more concerned about personal liberties than how laws affect corporations? Obamacare FORCES people to buy products from private companies or face fines and imprisonment. It's not like car insurance where you can choose not to drive. Are you democrats/liberals so blind from partisanship that you don't understand the significance of what the government has done? | ||
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LazyMacro
976 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:32 Apexplayer wrote: It's not the "Obama care bill" this is the recent changes. Basically stuff like updating insurance policies, increasing medicare aid. And stopping insurance companies from increasing premiums without warning or valid reason.... .... o.o Sorry, I got confused. I haven't been following this much, and someone was telling me last night the Obamacare thing was being challenged, so I just assumed... T_T My mistake. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:40 Electric.Jesus wrote: Err, should I laugh or cry at this? Of course the §expensive patients" cause more costs. That's why they are called "expensive", in the first place. This is like a car insurance company saying: "Those idiots that have accidents cost us much more than people who dont't". Go figure. The whole idea of health insurance is that you pay money into a big pool because you can then afford treatment that is expensive. You risk paying more than you get out, at the same time, if you are lucky enough not to suffer from serious illness. The solution is not to kick out the poeple who cost too much, obviously, because that would make the whole idea pointless. Yea I don't understand the point either. Of course there are way more sick people than healthy people. There BETTER be, or else the whole insurance thing wouldn't work at all. The "cheap" patients are healthy people who probably don't even cost the insurance company any money. It's supposed to be like that. And really, that has nothing to do with how incredibly expensive healthcare is. For those 1%, you better hope that they have healthcare. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On January 26 2011 04:44 Consolidate wrote: Where in the bill does the government force you to buy private health insurance? So wait, why are you even arguing about this bill when you don't even know that this provision is in there? | ||
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Consolidate
United States829 Posts
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