EPTNASA and the Private Sector - Page 101
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17191 Posts
On September 11 2016 11:20 LegalLord wrote: Building a base on the moon first would be a much more sane idea. The optics aren't as great - we've already been there so it's not as "cool" a mission - but from the perspective of tackling realistic goals that could be performed quickly and yield useful results, it's a good one. its been 40+ years since a human was 500+ miles off the earth's surface. we still do not know how the circulatory system, inner ear, and lymphatic system will react when the force of gravity is very low for an extended period of time. a mission with goals such as this will be make for a great research platform to answer these questions. another big concern occurs when gravity is pulling fairly equally in 2 different directions at the same time for an extended time period. how does that impact the heart's function? the lymphatic system etc. there could be dozens of other processes in living organisms that rely on a single source of gravitational pull close to the earth's force of gravity. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17191 Posts
On September 14 2016 03:13 LegalLord wrote: But we should focus on landing on an asteroid instead because of reasons. i'm thinking of starting my own initiative. its called "JupiterOne". our corporate slogan is "Fuck Mars". We'll land on Jupiter in 2065. I'll begin lobbying governments for money and accepting charitable donations with a kickstarter tomorrow. As , CEO and "Head of Ideas", i of course draw a pay equal to 40% of all incoming revenue. joking aside, i think companies confident in their ability to perform will warm up to projects with a time line under 10 years. i think companies that are just fishing for free government money are attracted to projects with timelilnes so long and project goals so grandiose that the execs signing these deals will never be held accountable for any failures; they'll be long gone before the rubber ever hits the road. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 03:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its been 40+ years since a human was 500+ miles off the earth's surface. we still do not know how the circulatory system, inner ear, and lymphatic system will react when the force of gravity is very low for an extended period of time. a mission with goals such as this will be make for a great research platform to answer these questions. another big concern occurs when gravity is pulling fairly equally in 2 different directions at the same time for an extended time period. how does that impact the heart's function? the lymphatic system etc. there could be dozens of other processes in living organisms that rely on a single source of gravitational pull close to the earth's force of gravity. Oh its "general relativity is wrong - says guy on the internet"-time again. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:07 LegalLord wrote: Evidently concerns about long-term effects of tidal forces and reduced-but-not-micro gravity on human biology are opposing general relativity. His post directly denies the equivalence principle, the core of general relativity. Its like saying "i can go faster than light by just running very fast in a train that moves slightly below lightspeed". He might believe it, but it is a good indicator to ignore his opinion, as he clearly has no clue about the last 120 years of physics. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:15 LegalLord wrote: Going to have to ask you to be more specific, since his post mostly seems to be addressing the effect of being under a different environment (Moon, Mars, asteroid) on human biological functions. Ok, he did this some months ago in this thread already. The argument goes: ISS is no test of weightlessness as it is too close to earth (thats why he harps on the 500miles again and again), and one can distinguish a free falling observer near a gravitating body from a free falling observer far from a gravitating body by a local experiment. People on the ISS are in free fall (except for the short boosting periods), there is no "force" acting on them as he claims again and again. And talking about "tidal"-forces in this context is either clueless, a bad joke or intentional windowdressing to misslead. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Sounds to me like a strawman or a grudge. What you're talking about has nothing to do with what he said. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:34 LegalLord wrote: So how does that have anything to do with analyzing the effects of living on the Moon or Mars on biological functions again? Sounds to me like a strawman or a grudge. What you're talking about has nothing to do with what he said. he said: "we still do not know how the circulatory system, inner ear, and lymphatic system will react when the force of gravity is very low for an extended period of time." he is wrong: we have years of experience on the ISS which is in free fall, which is according to general relativity exactly what he claims to be asking for. he said: "another big concern occurs when gravity is pulling fairly equally in 2 different directions at the same time for an extended time period. how does that impact the heart's function? the lymphatic system etc." that description doesn't even work with gravity, i have no clue what he is trying to get at.. there is no "big concern" with a nonexistent behaviour of gravity | ||
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oBlade
United States5823 Posts
On September 14 2016 03:13 JimmyJRaynor wrote: its been 40+ years since a human was 500+ miles off the earth's surface. we still do not know how the circulatory system, inner ear, and lymphatic system will react when the force of gravity is very low for an extended period of time. a mission with goals such as this will be make for a great research platform to answer these questions. another big concern occurs when gravity is pulling fairly equally in 2 different directions at the same time for an extended time period. how does that impact the heart's function? the lymphatic system etc. there could be dozens of other processes in living organisms that rely on a single source of gravitational pull close to the earth's force of gravity. Do you understand that weightless people don't stay right-side up? | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:34 LegalLord wrote: So how does that have anything to do with analyzing the effects of living on the Moon or Mars on biological functions again? Sounds to me like a strawman or a grudge. What you're talking about has nothing to do with what he said. You are incorrect. JJR's post was entirely regarding the effects of varying levels of gravity. JJR does not believe that equal and opposite forces cancel each other out with respect to biological functions. He believes that weightlessness on the ISS is somehow not the same as weightlessness outside of earth's orbit. Puerk disagrees. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17191 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:29 puerk wrote: Ok, he did this some months ago in this thread already. The argument goes: ISS is no test of weightlessness as it is too close to earth (thats why he harps on the 500miles again and again), and one can distinguish a free falling observer near a gravitating body from a free falling observer far from a gravitating body by a local experiment. People on the ISS are in free fall (except for the short boosting periods), there is no "force" acting on them as he claims again and again. And talking about "tidal"-forces in this context is either clueless, a bad joke or intentional windowdressing to misslead. try? apparent weightlesness of an object has nothing to do with the gravitational forces acting upon the object. we have no clue how the human circulatory system will be impacted by 2 or more opposing gravitational forces that are with an order of magnitude of one another for extended time periods. or the lymphatic system.. or the inner ear...etc etc. or much lower gravity than earth. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:43 JimmyJRaynor wrote: try? apparent weightlesness of an object has nothing to do with the gravitational forces acting upon the object. there are no gravitational forces. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17191 Posts
there are gravitational forces throughout our solar system. these forces keep the solar system in tact. | ||
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puerk
Germany855 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:46 JimmyJRaynor wrote: there are gravitational forces throughout our solar system. have you stopped reading after kepler? you claim general relativity is wrong, your argument is a gut feeling about "500miles is pretty close, i don't belive it counts" you use language that tries to imply that actual scientists that understand gravity a lot better than you share your concerns, when they are baseless and actually formulated in a way that makes clear you have no working understanding of what you are talking about. if the equivalence principle is true (which it is up to our detection threshold and which is the base of general relativity) your claims are baseless. if you continue your claims you deny the equivalence principle and general relativity. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On September 14 2016 06:42 Sn0_Man wrote: You are incorrect. JJR's post was entirely regarding the effects of varying levels of gravity. JJR does not believe that equal and opposite forces cancel each other out with respect to biological functions. He believes that weightlessness on the ISS is somehow not the same as weightlessness outside of earth's orbit. Puerk disagrees. Sounds like an argument that predates the specific post made then. Which I'll leave for them to sort out on their own. | ||
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