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On December 06 2010 13:37 gfever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" That is totally wrong, chinese people do hate the government, its just the government just squishes any sort of revolution be it either internet or on the streets. I have many chinese foreign students that say the same. They understand the situation, but its very hard when you have a government that is willing to pull tanks on you when your just holding a sign.
That's a rather large blanket statement. Many Chinese people hate the government, but many more are either apathetic or support it.
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On December 06 2010 13:37 gfever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" That is totally wrong, chinese people do hate the government, its just the government just squishes any sort of revolution be it either internet or on the streets. I have many chinese foreign students that say the same. They understand the situation, but its very hard when you have a government that is willing to pull tanks on you when your just holding a sign.
When did I say they all liked the government. I said the majority, which implies not all of them, are apathetic about the government. I also said they're content with how things are. I hate the US government but I'm not raging in the streets hurling molotovs into the windows or post offices because I'm content with how my life is.
And how is it totally wrong when you reposted almost exactly what I said?
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On December 06 2010 13:37 gfever wrote:
That is totally wrong, chinese people do hate the government, its just the government just squishes any sort of revolution be it either internet or on the streets. I have many chinese foreign students that say the same. They understand the situation, but its very hard when you have a government that is willing to pull tanks on you when your just holding a sign.
Funny, because I have the exact OPPOSITE experience in China, and I spend a good 4 months there each year. The average Chinese person doesn't place too much emphasis on ideas about absolute freedom or liberty or whatnot. They DO care that the government is leading the nation to greater prominence internationally.
I had a Beijing taxi driver talk to me for an entire 20 minute drive about how awesome the government was for it's role in advancing the economy. His argument was that nowhere else in the world could anybody see more automobiles. That may be an exaggeration, but it was evident he was very supportive of government policies.
Sure, people crack jokes at the governments expense a lot, but it's never really inflammatory. They accept censorship and the like, so long as the government continues to help China forge its way forward.
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On December 06 2010 13:35 inlagdsil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:19 InsideTheBox wrote:On December 06 2010 12:57 Consolidate wrote:On December 06 2010 12:44 Hatsu wrote:On December 06 2010 12:34 Consolidate wrote:On December 06 2010 12:26 keynest wrote:On December 06 2010 12:20 SamuraiJJ wrote:
six figure for a starting salary in China definitely requires much more than what you have thought.
Six figure for a starting salary? What kind of career is that? I don't think even in the US you can find handful of positions that have six figures for a starting salary. A junior analyst at a bulge-bracket IB makes around 60k-100k salary + equivalent bonus. Bonuses in IB are insane. My old flatmate worked in the position you described for a major IB here in London. His salary was indeed very high, but his hourly wage was lower than when he worked in Burger King. And that was before they cut his bonus due to the crisis. Also, IB bankers have one of the highest suicide rates in the population. There is a reason why they pay that much. It's a pretty shitty job, to be honest. But it is one of the only sure-fire ways to get rich. Most people only work two years at an IB before moving to a consulting firm or a hedge-fund. IB exit ops are PE or VC, it's usually S&T that goes on to work at HFs Could you please decipher these terms? I've tried googling them but am still not sure.
Investment banking, private equity, venture capital, sales and trading, hedge fund in that order.
Insidethebox is more correct in his statement than I was in mine.
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On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer"
I'm sorry I should have made my point clearer.
What I meant to get across is that China won't be able to afford to hammer down the nail without destroying all they have worked towards. When the economic future of a country rests on the shoulders of the people it's the people who have the final say in policy.
If it comes down to elections or economic instability Democracy prevails.
A nice example is Singapore. The Authoritarian regime that ruled them allowed for immense economic growth but out of that growth came cries for reform. I believe they have recently held their first democratic elections.
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On December 06 2010 13:49 frantic.cactus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" I'm sorry I should have made my point clearer. What I meant to get across is that China won't be able to afford to hammer down the nail without destroying all they have worked towards. When the economic future of a country rests on the shoulders of the people it's the people who have the final say in policy. If it comes down to elections or economic instability Democracy prevails. A nice example is Singapore. The Authoritarian regime that ruled them allowed for immense economic growth but out of that growth came cries for reform. I believe they have recently held their first democratic elections.
I think you're still underestimating the average intelligence of the chinese. They are for the most part aware of how the chinese government acts and the authoritarian measures it uses against the people. They're apathetic for the most part. I can't see how getting a a better education would some how improve that knowledge that they already have.
China may face a revolt and have to change, but I think it will be based more on economic factors, rather than cultural ones.
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The prevailing sentiment is highly discouraging. Very few students want to do real work anymore; despite the recent deflation of Wall Street, many of my peers (especially those quantitatively inclined) are aiming for positions within investment banks and consulting firms. I myself, am no exception - I look forward to a starting six-figure salary for what can kindly described as clerical work. Who am I to say no to that offer?
If you are going to whore yourself out to the same energies you find disturbing, you are either intellectually dishonest, or a pig.
Fuck you either way, scum.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 06 2010 13:35 inlagdsil wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:19 InsideTheBox wrote:On December 06 2010 12:57 Consolidate wrote:On December 06 2010 12:44 Hatsu wrote:On December 06 2010 12:34 Consolidate wrote:On December 06 2010 12:26 keynest wrote:On December 06 2010 12:20 SamuraiJJ wrote:
six figure for a starting salary in China definitely requires much more than what you have thought.
Six figure for a starting salary? What kind of career is that? I don't think even in the US you can find handful of positions that have six figures for a starting salary. A junior analyst at a bulge-bracket IB makes around 60k-100k salary + equivalent bonus. Bonuses in IB are insane. My old flatmate worked in the position you described for a major IB here in London. His salary was indeed very high, but his hourly wage was lower than when he worked in Burger King. And that was before they cut his bonus due to the crisis. Also, IB bankers have one of the highest suicide rates in the population. There is a reason why they pay that much. It's a pretty shitty job, to be honest. But it is one of the only sure-fire ways to get rich. Most people only work two years at an IB before moving to a consulting firm or a hedge-fund. IB exit ops are PE or VC, it's usually S&T that goes on to work at HFs Could you please decipher these terms? I've tried googling them but am still not sure.
IB = investment banker
PE = Private Equity
VC = Venture Capitalist
HF = Hedge Fund
S&T?? not sure, i would have added mergers and acquisitions.
anyway. i was at an IB for 2 years and now working in consulting. but like others have said, it pays a crap loads but the $/hour is pretty low.
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Countries with a lot of ressources don't need democracy, in China, the people is the main ressource, democracy will come or the country will fail.
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On December 06 2010 13:37 gfever wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" That is totally wrong, chinese people do hate the government, its just the government just squishes any sort of revolution be it either internet or on the streets. I have many chinese foreign students that say the same. They understand the situation, but its very hard when you have a government that is willing to pull tanks on you when your just holding a sign.
The Chinese people do not hate their government, the majority anyway. I've lived their for 9 years, and the general attitude towards the government is one of support. Sure there might have been some disagreements here or there, but the Chinese people as a whole definitely do not hate their government. (Perhaps it's because of the censorship or oppression of all opposing thoughts) I'm not saying I adore the Chinese government, I'm actually starting to see its flaws after living in a democratic country. In my opinion, the reason for China's success is its hardworking population and an efficient government. Being in such a competitive environment, a Chinese person has to work so much harder than an American just to survive, and this produces a very capable and talented nation.
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On December 06 2010 14:02 woowoo wrote:
Countries with a lot of ressources don't need democracy, in China, the people is the main ressource, democracy will come or the country will fail.
i'm sorry but that sounds like a whole load of contradiction right there.
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On December 06 2010 14:08 cvlsfts wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:37 gfever wrote:On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" That is totally wrong, chinese people do hate the government, its just the government just squishes any sort of revolution be it either internet or on the streets. I have many chinese foreign students that say the same. They understand the situation, but its very hard when you have a government that is willing to pull tanks on you when your just holding a sign. The Chinese people do not hate their government, the majority anyway. I've lived their for 9 years, and the general attitude towards the government is one of support. Sure there might have been some disagreements here or there, but the Chinese people as a whole definitely do not hate their government. (Perhaps it's because of the censorship or oppression of all opposing thoughts) I'm not saying I adore the Chinese government, I'm actually starting to see its flaws after living in a democratic country. In my opinion, the reason for China's success is its hardworking population and an efficient government. Being in such a competitive environment, a Chinese person has to work so much harder than an American just to survive, and this produces a very capable and talented nation.
i agree with your point that the majority of Chinese citizens does not detest the government. most of my relatives in China support the ambitions of the government and trust in their ability to further improve their living standard, just like they have done over the past decade.
your analogy reminds me of Code Geass' Britannia, only the strongest survive. heh
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On December 06 2010 13:53 pfods wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:49 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" I'm sorry I should have made my point clearer. What I meant to get across is that China won't be able to afford to hammer down the nail without destroying all they have worked towards. When the economic future of a country rests on the shoulders of the people it's the people who have the final say in policy. If it comes down to elections or economic instability Democracy prevails. A nice example is Singapore. The Authoritarian regime that ruled them allowed for immense economic growth but out of that growth came cries for reform. I believe they have recently held their first democratic elections. I think you're still underestimating the average intelligence of the chinese. They are for the most part aware of how the chinese government acts and the authoritarian measures it uses against the people. They're apathetic for the most part. I can't see how getting a a better education would some how improve that knowledge that they already have. China may face a revolt and have to change, but I think it will be based more on economic factors, rather than cultural ones.
And in Singapore the population was well aware of all the good the regime was doing for the progress of country but still demanded elections. And do you know why they got them? Because the leaders knew it would mean the end of the progress and stability within the country.
Also it's not the quality of education that counts it's the amount of people who have access to it.
I'm not talking about the current middle class in China who were educated 30 years ago. I'm talking about the educated youth upon whom the future of the country rests. I highly doubt the future government of China would crack down on these guys.
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I have some troubles with english, I meant oil, iron, gold, etc
The real ressouce of China is workers.
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America isn't going anywhere. So dream on, people.
User was warned for this post
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On December 06 2010 14:00 HeadBangaa wrote:Show nested quote +The prevailing sentiment is highly discouraging. Very few students want to do real work anymore; despite the recent deflation of Wall Street, many of my peers (especially those quantitatively inclined) are aiming for positions within investment banks and consulting firms. I myself, am no exception - I look forward to a starting six-figure salary for what can kindly described as clerical work. Who am I to say no to that offer?
If you are going to whore yourself out to the same energies you find disturbing, you are either intellectually dishonest, or a pig. Fuck you either way, scum.
As much as I didn't like the post, I don't see how he's being intellectually dishonest. Maybe he's a pig, but I won't say until I see the tail. Everyone's subject to their own risk-aversion and priorities; who are you to tell him to pursue other work. He may find it disturbing, he never said he couldn't live with it. Do you take action every time something doesn't live up to your ideals?
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On December 06 2010 14:13 frantic.cactus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 13:53 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:49 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 13:26 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 13:20 frantic.cactus wrote:On December 06 2010 12:32 pfods wrote:On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
We saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. China is the perfect mix of freedom and authoritarianism. Enough freedom to make people happy(or think they're happy), and enough authoritarianism to make sure everyone stays in line. And the wealthier china gets, the happier the majority of its citizens will be. The only real way china is going to see any serious reform is complete economic devastation, where the progress that the communist party touts around as a measure of the success of the party is no longer a viable option in assuaging peoples concerns with their lack of freedom. Compared to most western countries and the gulf between the rich and the poor is huge. The only way for the gap to shrink is the natural progression into a white collar middle class. Which is what China is currently investing in by increasing funding for education enormously. In 20 years when that investment bears fruit we'll be looking at a very different distribution of income. Then that middle class will start asking "We made this country what it is today, why don't we get a say in how it is run?". And at that point there has to be a social revolution. Like I said, we saw how China handled that with Tienanmen Square. If you ask any chinese students studying in the states about chinas authoritarianism, the majority of them basically give you a response of "it works, why complain" or "I'm happy, why change". They are 100% aware of its lack of freedom in comparison to the united states, they just don't care for the most part. Countries like japan, korea, and china have cultures that emphasize fitting in as well. It's not a normal thought process to just rebel for most of them, regardless of education. You know how we have the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? In china, they have a saying that goes "the raised nail gets the hammer" I'm sorry I should have made my point clearer. What I meant to get across is that China won't be able to afford to hammer down the nail without destroying all they have worked towards. When the economic future of a country rests on the shoulders of the people it's the people who have the final say in policy. If it comes down to elections or economic instability Democracy prevails. A nice example is Singapore. The Authoritarian regime that ruled them allowed for immense economic growth but out of that growth came cries for reform. I believe they have recently held their first democratic elections. I think you're still underestimating the average intelligence of the chinese. They are for the most part aware of how the chinese government acts and the authoritarian measures it uses against the people. They're apathetic for the most part. I can't see how getting a a better education would some how improve that knowledge that they already have. China may face a revolt and have to change, but I think it will be based more on economic factors, rather than cultural ones. And in Singapore the population was well aware of all the good the regime was doing for the progress of country but still demanded elections. And do you know why they got them? Because the leaders knew it would mean the end of the progress and stability within the country. Also it's not the quality of education that counts it's the amount of people who have access to it. I'm not talking about the current middle class in China who were educated 30 years ago. I'm talking about the educated youth upon whom the future of the country rests. I highly doubt the future government of China would crack down on these guys.
Except there is no need to crack down on them in the first place; people understand what's going on but they also believe in whats going on is the right course for the country. It would take a lot to make the average Chinese to say democracy is the way to go. More likely, they'll blame to current leader and demand a change in that regards, but not the tearing down of the Communist Party.
As for your education argument, that would be applicable here if Chinese students weren't incredibly involved in politics and current events. The internet more or less is a great equalizer until the education system is better established in China.
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On December 06 2010 14:00 HeadBangaa wrote:Show nested quote +The prevailing sentiment is highly discouraging. Very few students want to do real work anymore; despite the recent deflation of Wall Street, many of my peers (especially those quantitatively inclined) are aiming for positions within investment banks and consulting firms. I myself, am no exception - I look forward to a starting six-figure salary for what can kindly described as clerical work. Who am I to say no to that offer?
If you are going to whore yourself out to the same energies you find disturbing, you are either intellectually dishonest, or a pig. Fuck you either way, scum.
That seems like a ban-level rant if I've ever seen one  .
I think you shouldn't trust his assumption that he'll be doing "clerical" work... first of all he hasn't landed and job and secondly if it were really so easy then it would be open to less trained individuals and salary would go down. I'll say one thing for America... it may be possible to be complacent but it is equally possible to work as hard as you damn want here. There is so much opportunity and support for anyone truly creative or with sufficient inner drive.
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On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
The general feeling among people according to my uncle is that people support the government because the government is supporting the people and doing great things to improve everyones quality of life.
I'm sure if things weren't going so well people would want to do something about it but right now things are great.
"Democracy" these days seems slow and corrupt in my opinion.
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On December 06 2010 14:36 vek wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 12:14 frantic.cactus wrote:
As a well educated middle class emerges they will question their government. This is always the way with Authoritarian regimes. When this happens China has to either get in line with the rest of the Democratic world or fall by the wayside.
The general feeling among people according to my uncle is that people support the government because the government is supporting the people and doing great things to improve everyones quality of life. I'm sure if things weren't going so well people would want to do something about it but right now things are great. "Democracy" these days seems slow and corrupt in my opinion.
My point exactly, "Right now things are great"
However we're talking about the China of the future an cannot judge the political motivations of the population by the current concensus on the street.
What happens when China heavy handed government starts getting in the way of trade or contraversial public policy. What we must remember is the current governmental organisation has done a great job getting their country populace out of the paddy fields and into the factories but the step up to where the majority of the population are working white collar jobs is yet to come and when it does it's bringing the winds of change with it.
Except there is no need to crack down on them in the first place; people understand what's going on but they also believe in whats going on is the right course for the country. It would take a lot to make the average Chinese to say democracy is the way to go. More likely, they'll blame to current leader and demand a change in that regards, but not the tearing down of the Communist Party.
As for your education argument, that would be applicable here if Chinese students weren't incredibly involved in politics and current events. The internet more or less is a great equalizer until the education system is better established in China.
While what you say is true in the current political climate surrounding China it will definatly not be the case in the future. The point you make about demanding a change in leadership is the greatest part of social revolution. And the population demanding a change in leadership is the hallmark of democratic progress.
I will say once again, once the people of China have a chance to reap the rewards of the cash injection into the public sector (see 30-40 years time) they will have been brought up in a globalized society where a heavy handed government has no place. Just look at the amount of libralisation it has taken for China to reach this point and their still far behind the US in some key aspects of social development.
Power of the people, for the people.
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EPT
