Well this website doesnt make justice to the proportion things have took.
Everyone I know has been told to stay at home by someone with police contacts or by police directly, violence has been ultra high since sunday, gangsters organized and started doing terrorist attacks against the city directly, today they said they would attack the wealthy area.
Police on the other hand, told everyone to stay home today (unofficially) because they are gonna kill everyone (hopefully the badguys only)
I cant leave my house and everyone is scared shitless to be on the street.
Colleges, schools jobs everything is closing and everyone is expecting the police to do an ultimate showdown.
all cops have been called to the street and BOPE is operating nonstop for the last 80 hours in the most dangerous favela ever, the Complexo do Alemao http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complexo_do_Alemao
Shit just got real bigtime guys, I except a red sun tomorrow.
This video has some visual explanations even if you dont understand the audio
whoa wtf!? i know a family that helps with a church and orphanage in one of the slums down there, hope this kinda blows over and nothing serious happens :/
"Police on the other hand, told everyone to stay home today (unofficially) because they are gonna kill everyone (hopefully the badguys only)" wow. This sounds like a very tense situation. If it were a movie it would be really cool, though it's real life, it must be terrifying. I hope that all goes well.
how much in danger are you? could it happen that bullets start flying through your walls or something or are you at least a little bit further away from the most dangeours zones?
Dont know how much you could take out of it, but this is the Brazilian website for the situation, has some vids of burned vehicles and they say that its 14 dead already this wednesday and its still kinda early.
Well im no direct danger as long as i stay at home, I live at the 20th floor of a building with decent security in a wealthy area, not really the kind of place they would attack, but its not really out of the way if they want to attack wealthy areas
I fear for the people in the streets, and what sucks most is that I wanted to go out today
So the people in poverty, shafted by the government, are rallying together to rise up against the rich minority? I have a few well-off Brazilian friends that tell me that the whole system is bullshit and its nearly impossible to get out of poverty.
Does this have anything to do with the global financial crisis? Maybe we finally reached the point of en-mass mental breakdowns, and many things that used to be the norm yesteryear, now don't make any more sense.
No, these gangster burn busses and other vehicles of mass transportations screwing the poor guy who just want to get to work, here in Brazil poor people dont have gungs lying around, gangsters do.
This is not a revolution against government, this is an attack against the state by a organized mafia who is losing territory.
they are actively doing that right now, but they can only do it with a 20hour long major shootout in which they either kill most of the muscle of the mafia or its bosses or both, and they are doing this right now!
Bope invaded the biggest and most dangerous favela in the world, dont that mean anything ?
Damn, how big is this mafia to be able to threaten such a city. Thats some serious stuff. I wonder how it will be handled knowing that Brazil wants to cleanup its image for the world cup and the olympics.
On November 25 2010 07:28 nitram wrote: Damn, how big is this mafia to be able to threaten such a city. Thats some serious stuff. I wonder how it will be handled knowing that Brazil wants to cleanup its image for the world cup and the olympics.
Police Intelligence believes this is the union of several different mafias acting coordinated
On November 25 2010 07:30 leecH wrote: D10, why cant police/military shut these activities down?
I know I already answered you but let me add since you double posted, they have at this moment almost 40000 thousand man on the street trying to order the chaos.
And they are unable to do so, unless they are given permission to attack.
The bad guys are many, are everywhere, hidden under the disguise of society, the police cant be everywhere, and until they are given orders to seek and destroy (which our politicians seem to be OKing today) they cant really stop the chaos.
Considering the power of the drug cartels not to far north of Brazil, then it's not that much of a stretch to assume the same there. Central/South American drug cartels are just revoltingly powerful, it's actually insane Tasteless.
Sounds like the OP will be fine though. Just hope he kept his fridge stocked.
I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
Its all about interest groups.
The bus mafia is not friends with the drug mafia.
And lately politicias have been able to sustain their corruption agendas without drug money because of the huge construction projects for the olimpics, and to make the olimpic works they need to well, pacify the city.
It was just a question of getting the same corruption money but from a more legitimate source.
it basically work like this.
The drug gangs give money to police and politicias to leave them alone.
The bus cartel gives money to politicias to get legislation done in their favor.
And the new kids on the block, the civil construction guys, need the favelas destroyed to build new flashy condoms on top of it (ok not all the time, but its a motivation to give money to politicians if some of those juicy terrans end in your hand) and to do that politicias have to attack the gangs.
Its all politics but this time it ended up favoring legitimate business over the drug mafia, which got them super fucking pissed big time.
On November 25 2010 07:35 Kakera wrote: You seem well-informed.
I know a lot of people who have relatives as officers in BOPE or the police etc;;
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
Why would they strike against a foe who can retaliate when they can instead terrorize civilians. The citizens will complain that the actions of the police have caused the gangster to up the ante in terms of violence. Ultimately if the people feel safer with the status quo there will be pressure for the police to back down. This isn't some sort of revolutionary force out to overthrow the government they're out to take money and control territory, usually these are easier to achieve without engaging in some sort of open warfare.
On November 25 2010 07:30 leecH wrote: D10, why cant police/military shut these activities down?
I know I already answered you but let me add since you double posted, they have at this moment almost 40000 thousand man on the street trying to order the chaos.
And they are unable to do so, unless they are given permission to attack.
The bad guys are many, are everywhere, hidden under the disguise of society, the police cant be everywhere, and until they are given orders to seek and destroy (which our politicians seem to be OKing today) they cant really stop the chaos.
sorry for the double post. safari likes to trick me.
but now i get the situation thanks. 40000 seems promising. i think i heard about something like this about a year ago - when they said they shut down some gangs. since then i thought the situation would be better. so what im trying to ask: in your opinion will this work or is this just a sign of strength from the state? or does this happen every few years when those gangs gain back the strength? i guess id like to hear some personal thoughts from someone living there who has a bit more insight then europe newspapers.... so.. will it work??
and man, why dont you took a bus and visit someone outside of the city you may happen to know? ;(
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
And the new kids on the block, the civil construction guys, need the favelas destroyed to build new flashy condoms on top of it (ok not all the time, but its a motivation to give money to politicians if some of those juicy terrans end in your hand) and to do that politicias have to attack the gangs.
On November 25 2010 07:30 leecH wrote: D10, why cant police/military shut these activities down?
I know I already answered you but let me add since you double posted, they have at this moment almost 40000 thousand man on the street trying to order the chaos.
And they are unable to do so, unless they are given permission to attack.
The bad guys are many, are everywhere, hidden under the disguise of society, the police cant be everywhere, and until they are given orders to seek and destroy (which our politicians seem to be OKing today) they cant really stop the chaos.
sorry for the double post. safari likes to trick me.
but now i get the situation thanks. 40000 seems promising. i think i heard about something like this about a year ago - when they said they shut down some gangs. since then i thought the situation would be better. so what im trying to ask: in your opinion will this work or is this just a sign of strength from the state? or does this happen every few years when those gangs gain back the strength? i guess id like to hear some personal thoughts from someone living there who has a bit more insight then europe newspapers....
and man, why dont you took a bus and visit someone outside of the city you may happen to know? ;(
Honestly ? my personal belief is that as long as gangsters can make money from selling drugs there will be problems with big organized mafias.
We need to legalize drugs at some level, get that off the gangsters hands so they starve to death, without the drug money, they wouldnt be able to pay off anyone, and would quickly be arrested trying dangerous crimes.
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
And the new kids on the block, the civil construction guys, need the favelas destroyed to build new flashy condoms on top of it (ok not all the time, but its a motivation to give money to politicians if some of those juicy terrans end in your hand) and to do that politicias have to attack the gangs.
On November 25 2010 07:24 AlexDeLarge wrote: Does this have anything to do with the global financial crisis? Maybe we finally reached the point of en-mass mental breakdowns, and many things that used to be the norm yesteryear, now don't make any more sense.
Unlike most countries, Brazil wasnt affected by the financial crisis at all.
The criminal are most likely fighting over territory. Let BOPE kill them all.
if it was me i would board up my windows, extra locks for the doors, hope i got enough food in the house, and hope i got enough shells for the 12 gauge
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
third world country.Brazil.Ok.
Technically speaking, Brazil is a "Third World" country. When these definitions were made, first world was western, capitalist countries, second was the communist eastern bloc + russia + china, and third is everything else, most of Asia, Middle East, Africa, and South America. This includes relatively rich countries like saudi arabia and poor countries like haiti.
/threadjack.
Stay safe Brazilians, your country is growing at an impressive rate and cracking down on these mobsters can only make things better.
Cara, eu moro em SP e é incrivel como a midia paulista parece ignorar isso ai, tenho parentes no Rio e tá muito complicado, unica fonte de noticias que eu tenho são midias controladas para não deixar se fazer publico a verdadeira gravidade das coisas ai... você sabe de algum lugar onde eu possa acompanhar os acontecimentos sem serem mascarados? Ficaria grato... é complicado ficar ligando para parentes pra saber como estão a cada 30 minutos...
Back to english... man that really sucks, i saw on some sites.. near 20 deaths and a lot of vehicles burned down.. stay safe and keep us updated since apparently all media sources are being instructed to keep news low.
Cara, eu moro em SP e é incrivel como a midia paulista parece ignorar isso ai, tenho parentes no Rio e tá muito complicado, unica fonte de noticias que eu tenho são midias controladas para não deixar se fazer publico a verdadeira gravidade das coisas ai... você sabe de algum lugar onde eu possa acompanhar os acontecimentos sem serem mascarados? Ficaria grato... é complicado ficar ligando para parentes pra saber como estão a cada 30 minutos...
Back to english... man that really sucks, i saw on some sites.. near 20 deaths and a lot of vehicles burned down.. stay safe and keep us updated since apparently all media sources are being instructed to keep news low.
Tudo que eu to sabendo ta vindo da boca de amigo ou parente e eu to colocando ai, site brasileiro eh dificil mesmo, procura os foruns de internet como hangarnet.com.br sei la
on a side note, seems like where I live is one of the most protected places to be right now, all entrances to my neighboorhood are protected by tons of police.
On November 25 2010 07:35 AlexDeLarge wrote: I don't understand why the gangsters attacked civilians though. They have a beef against the government who promulgated that comunitary special police force law, not innocent civilians. Also, don't the mob and the government usually go hand in hand regarding corruption in 3rd world countries? How did they come to be in open conflict.
third world country.Brazil.Ok.
Technically speaking, Brazil is a "Third World" country. When these definitions were made, first world was western, capitalist countries, second was the communist eastern bloc + russia + china, and third is everything else, most of Asia, Middle East, Africa, and South America. This includes relatively rich countries like saudi arabia and poor countries like haiti.
/threadjack.
Stay safe Brazilians, your country is growing at an impressive rate and cracking down on these mobsters can only make things better.
Technically, it is, but it's not a third world country in the way "Third World" was used.
Cara, eu moro em SP e é incrivel como a midia paulista parece ignorar isso ai, tenho parentes no Rio e tá muito complicado, unica fonte de noticias que eu tenho são midias controladas para não deixar se fazer publico a verdadeira gravidade das coisas ai... você sabe de algum lugar onde eu possa acompanhar os acontecimentos sem serem mascarados? Ficaria grato... é complicado ficar ligando para parentes pra saber como estão a cada 30 minutos...
Back to english... man that really sucks, i saw on some sites.. near 20 deaths and a lot of vehicles burned down.. stay safe and keep us updated since apparently all media sources are being instructed to keep news low.
To see a bit about the war against the gangs in Rio de Janeiro watch the show: Ross Kemp on Gangs: Rio de Janeiro. I put the youtube vids of it in the spoiler.
On November 25 2010 08:27 Golden Ghost wrote: To see a bit about the war against the gangs in Rio de Janeiro watch the show: Ross Kemp on Gangs: Rio de Janeiro. I put the youtube vids of it in the spoiler.
Reading the spoilers (pretty amazing how easy portuguese/spanish is when you know either of those) im surprised by the way you guys are refering to the media. Not the fact that they suck but for all i know media tends to LOVE to broadcast social chaos, fear is by far the easiest way to get rating.
On November 25 2010 08:36 skindzer wrote: Reading the spoilers (pretty amazing how easy portuguese/spanish is when you know either of those) im surprised by the way you guys are refering to the media. Not the fact that they suck but for all i know media tends to LOVE to broadcast social chaos, fear is by far the easiest way to get rating.
Theres barely any competition, media is almost monopoly in Brazil. they will get endless money either way.
On November 25 2010 08:36 skindzer wrote: Reading the spoilers (pretty amazing how easy portuguese/spanish is when you know either of those) im surprised by the way you guys are refering to the media. Not the fact that they suck but for all i know media tends to LOVE to broadcast social chaos, fear is by far the easiest way to get rating.
Brazilian media loves to broadcast scandals and cruel killings... when it has government issues wrapped in chaos they mask it to appear less serious than it really is.
Well, i think due to Football World Cup, they have to do this.
So many Fans from around the world will travel there and the government, as they are brazilians, dont want to show the world a city, which is in such a "bad" shape. They want it to be nice, clean and foreigner friendly. In my opinion, thats not wrong.
I think the biggest problem is, that there are so much organised criminals, due to the fact that they could nearly do whatever they wanted for a long time as long as it was in their favelas - that the government is facing ja huge problem now. In my opinion, the only way to get rid of this criminal "brood" is to do such a showdown.
I hope you and your family and all the normal people over there that u really stay safe during this.
- i gotta say that my knowledge about this is only made by german media and some english news sites oder documentary movies i watch sometimes. i'm sorry if things differ a lot in reality.
Wow, this situation is getting intense. I really hope you stay safe fellow TL.net'er. Such a massive police response is setting up for an extremely violent end for both sides. Gunshots ringing out in the streets. Perhaps even Martial Law cold be invoked for the area in the worse case scenario. I sincerely hope everyone stays safe and this situation doesn't not end like the 2007 Complexo do Alemão massacre.
É tão estranho, só voltei na Holanda faz dois meses, depois ficar 5 meses em São Paulo. Boa sorte e espero que fica tudo mais tranquilo no Rio quando essa bagunça acabar...
Does anyone know how similar Brazil's gang problems are compared to Mexico's? Is this basically an act of retaliation against a new government measure combating drug distribution?
Brazil has a lot at stake right now - this is very bad press for the upcoming Olympics.
I know that drug-cartels have long been a problem in Brazil. I'm just curious as to whether or not we're seeing a similar escalation in Brazil as we are seeing in Mexico.
In other words, is this situation a temporary inflammation of gang-violence or are these attacks symptoms of a growing systemic problem?
I got my moms car and drove around the neighboorhood for a few mins saw nothing interesting but you can feel the tension in peoples faces waiting at the bus stops and the like.
Someone burned a bus in a HUGE shopping mall 2Km away from my house, seems bad
At a point I think I heard someone yell STOOOOOOP and I was like WTF, I dont know what that was, could be someone telling the bus driver to stop, idk
I feel very sorry to all the people in Brazil just trying to live a "normal" life. Wow I would not want to fuck with those police,Anyone see the video on the first page near the bottom? they took a broom and pulled the guys pants down...
On November 25 2010 10:36 tellthenightcomes wrote: I feel very sorry to all the people in Brazil just trying to live a "normal" life. Wow I would not want to fuck with those police,Anyone see the video on the first page near the bottom? they took a broom and pulled the guys pants down...
Thats from the movie Tropa de Elite (Elite Squad in english)
On November 25 2010 10:04 Consolidate wrote: I know that drug-cartels have long been a problem in Brazil. I'm just curious as to whether or not we're seeing a similar escalation in Brazil as we are seeing in Mexico.
In other words, is this situation a temporary inflammation of gang-violence or are these attacks symptoms of a growing systemic problem?
Actually Brazilians from Rio could teach Mexicans on how to try to live in this kinda situation. However, this kind of violence is more localized in Rio. São Paulo city is very violent too, but in a more discreet way than Rio.
It's been like that for a really really long time. It's just the shit hit the fan again. It's not the first or second time. It will certain not be the last. Answering your question I would say both. It's an occasional outburst of generalized violence that happens times to times and it's a symptom of a growing problem caused by the government and the drug lords and weapon dealers.
The are a slideshow of pictures taken at Rio: Here
Called my parents that live in Rio, they're locked in their house and are safe but one of my cousins will have to go toa university do some end year tests... will have to cross the whole damn place.
The situation in Brasil is not the same has the mexicans! but it exists for decades! In mexico is a all-out war against the government and police!
I have been to rio and for instance "Complexo do alemao" is the size of 100 soccer fields or more! And not all of the habitants are gangsters and drug smugglers you can't just kill them all, that's the difficult part of it! Anyone that doesn't have guns or drugs is not a gangster but they might just pick them up once police are gone!
I'm sad for Brasil they deserve better but they are winning the war and the gangs are having harder times that's why they are in the streets trying to shut down the city but the normal people won't take it anymore and will help the police!
Because for years the police were worse then the gangster because some dude that controled a favela(slums) would take care of the community much more then the government but right now brasil is better and are helping the poor communitys.
This is another proof that the gangster are losing it!
Boa sorte! e tem cuidado com esses filhos da puta!
Ppl, things are getting really serious arround here quickly. I live in Rio de Janeiro but in a place very distant from the area where this operation is taking place. But the television just don't stop showing news about this every few seconds. You problably know that these kind of thing happens here very offten. But this time it's waaaaaaaaaay more serious than I have ever seen before. Let me try to explain you why this is happening:
After Rio was chosen to host the 2016 olympics summer games and also some soccer games of the 2014 World Cup, all the world wasn't very sure if the "public security" of the city could handle such a thing, so the goverment came up with a thing that they call "UPP", which means "Pacifier Police Unit", this is a police headquarter that they want to build in every "favela" that is dominated by criminals, so they can take the control of these areas back to the State. So far they have been succesful executing this plan and building an UPP in some small favelas, but the thing is, after the police took control of some areas that were dominated by criminals, they didn't killed or arrested every one that was involved with the "mafia", so these ones that scaped had to go somewhere else, and they went to this exactly favela that the police is trying to build an UPP right now, the "Complexo do Alemão". The police found out that they were all hidden there because some leaders of the mafia in here ordered the bandits to make attaks in order to show the police that they didn't like the UPP thing. So all the mafia members went out the street making vandalism arround the Complexo do Alemão area, and by doing so they just got the police attention to that area and now they're so damn fucked up because this time the State really wants to put an end to their "drugs kingdom", only because of the 2014 & 2016 things.
I am sorry for english mistakes, I don't really speak english =/
Olympics and the World Cup are still being held in brazil yeah? Id bet the governement is in alot of pressure to stop this now before the rest of the world hears about it.
On November 26 2010 01:55 T0fuuu wrote: Olympics and the World Cup are still being held in brazil yeah? Id bet the governement is in alot of pressure to stop this now before the rest of the world hears about it.
Exactly, the police wants to take control of the areas that are dominated by the mafia before the begining of the games, so brazil can pretend to the world that everything is OK arround here, but right after the end of the games everything is gunna go back to the way it was.
On November 26 2010 01:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Does anyone have any idea how well armed the Mafia etc. are in Brazil, are we talking quality and quantity of the cartels in Mexico?
Dunno about quantity in Rio, but as a whole in Brazil there are many more cartels than Mexico (maybe because our country has a biger size...)
About quality, i can't be sure but every news I read say they're well equiped with a great quantity of restricted use weapons (ones that can be only used by national army)
On November 26 2010 01:59 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Does anyone have any idea how well armed the Mafia etc. are in Brazil, are we talking quality and quantity of the cartels in Mexico?
probably way way more quantity with similar or lower quality.
its a fuckton of guys with assault rifles and rocket launchers, they are organized and getting beaten.
Just saw a live video of around 30-60 guys leaving a favela by the hills hiding the woods, all had tons of gear, granades, rifles etc...
This is probably just a small part of a group, and theres more than 800 favelas in Rio, id they united, they could put anything mexico drug lords are able to muster in shame
Seems like all the gangs being attacked by the police are running to the Complexo do Alemao where they are makinga hell of a stand, we probably wont take em down today
edit: damn this is bad news, live news are filming hundreds of gangsters heavily armed all going to the complexo do alemao because thats the hardest one to invade of them all, probably the most badass favela in the world atm.
It might be a ludicrous and immature question, but why can't the government call in some truly heavy-duty weaponry (i.e. air support or the army, etc.)? Why can't it request help from military contractors or get all the troops to organize?
On November 26 2010 03:25 Z3kk wrote: It might be a ludicrous and immature question, but why can't the government call in some truly heavy-duty weaponry (i.e. air support or the army, etc.)? Why can't it request help from military contractors or get all the troops to organize?
Thousands of innocent people live in the favelas, most of the time the gangsters will invade people houses and use them as human shields then the action beggins.
So police only attacks when they are 100% sure of success
edit theres already tons of tanks and heavly armed vehicles everywhere, copters and the like, its just hard to get a clean target in the middle of all the mess
Thats what sucks, there are innocent people in the favelas. People who live a poor life of honest and hard work. We cant just send all the army shooting everybody in the favelas.
My girlfriend lives in Rio, and I was going there for 12 days. Turns out, now she is coming over with both of her parents. Can't really enjoy the city when it's like that =/
On November 26 2010 03:41 Trajan98 wrote: What are the criminals trying to achieve by doing this?
Everyones guess is that they wanted the population to get pissed at the state and its failure and this halted the process of eliminating gangs and pacifying favelas that has been going strong lately.
To be honest, they are not really versed into a lot else than bribery and violence.
Do the police really need to raid Complexo do Alemao? Can't they just patrol the area and make sure no one with weapons escapes? That'd probably reduce casualties by a lot and would prevent some civilian casualties.
Wait, so the gangsters basically have civilian hostages? That could be really bad if they decide to put up some kind off demand and if the government doesn't' fulfill it they threaten to kill the civilians in the bunkered up area...
On November 26 2010 03:48 Durak wrote: Do the police really need to raid Complexo do Alemao? Can't they just patrol the area and make sure no one with weapons escapes? That'd probably reduce casualties by a lot and would prevent some civilian casualties.
Thats what has been happening for decades, police gets payed by the bad guys, and ignores them as long as there are no AK 47 on the streets, its not the right way, those people living in the favelas are terrorized by tyranical gangsters, we should at least want to help them
On November 26 2010 03:51 CosmicAC wrote: Wait, so the gangsters basically have civilian hostages? That could be really bad if they decide to put up some kind off demand and if the government doesn't' fulfill it they threaten to kill the civilians in the bunkered up area...
Well the badguys are mostly poor people from the favelas as well, so they have some sense of pride in not trying to directly endanger their fellow poor people, they want to use people as human shields to inhibit action, not as actual human shields or hostages for demands, that would completely destroy their gang as not all gang members want to see random people in the favelas dying (most dont, thats where they were born)
The big problem is, you can't just go shooting everybody because all the criminals are hidden amongst a lot of innocent people, so is a very hard type of action.
The state government started with this policy to occupy the favelas and erradicate all the drug dealing in each community. They are doing it for several years now, but now the criminals are feeling that they don't have anywhere else to run, so they started all of those semi-terrorist attacks all over the place.
Anyway, one good thing to notice is that is not like the hole city is in war, the shit is happenning at the poor places. Near the beach where the more whealthy live I believe everything is pretty fine.
On November 26 2010 03:51 CosmicAC wrote: Wait, so the gangsters basically have civilian hostages? That could be really bad if they decide to put up some kind off demand and if the government doesn't' fulfill it they threaten to kill the civilians in the bunkered up area...
I don't think they would do that, as a matter of fact, the gangsters actually "like" the people of their favelas, and they kinda support them at a certain point. I mean, it's not like they actually like them, but there is a mutual relationship.
On November 26 2010 03:51 debasers wrote: Anyway, one good thing to notice is that is not like the hole city is in war, the shit is happenning at the poor places. Near the beach where the more whealthy live I believe everything is pretty fine.
Actually, there are some attacks all over the city, shootings at police departments, setting various vehicles on fire and stealing raids.
Theres also the fact that the police would LOL real hard if they heard demands, the answer would probably be (ok tell me where you are so we can go there and kill all you mother fuckers)
On November 26 2010 03:48 Durak wrote: Do the police really need to raid Complexo do Alemao? Can't they just patrol the area and make sure no one with weapons escapes? That'd probably reduce casualties by a lot and would prevent some civilian casualties.
Thats what has been happening for decades, police gets payed by the bad guys, and ignores them as long as there are no AK 47 on the streets, its not the right way, those people living in the favelas are terrorized by tyranical gangsters, we should at least want to help them
Sounds like that's a corruption problem in the police then.
I made that comment in the context of the short-term. Now that they've coralled the gangsters into one favela, they should probably proceed cautiously. I was suggesting that they form a solid perimeter and then do progressive raids.
Do you think it would be more effective to charge and shoot everyone holding a weapon? (Honest question)
On November 26 2010 03:48 Durak wrote: Do the police really need to raid Complexo do Alemao? Can't they just patrol the area and make sure no one with weapons escapes? That'd probably reduce casualties by a lot and would prevent some civilian casualties.
Thats what has been happening for decades, police gets payed by the bad guys, and ignores them as long as there are no AK 47 on the streets, its not the right way, those people living in the favelas are terrorized by tyranical gangsters, we should at least want to help them
Sounds like that's a corruption problem in the police then.
I made that comment in the context of the short-term. Now that they've coralled the gangsters into one favela, they should probably proceed cautiously. I was suggesting that they form a solid perimeter and then do progressive raids.
Do you think it would be more effective to charge and shoot everyone holding a weapon? (Honest question)
No, rio has more than 800 favelas, these dangerous criminals burning cars and killing people are a small fraction of the power of organized crime, they need to take this on baby steps and make no mistakes, the potential for escalation is absurd
Honestly, all of this was bound to happen sooner rather than later. You don't need to live in Brazil to know that Rio de Janeiro has the biggest favelas in the world and has an incredible machine that is the organized crime.
If "we" want to host the world cup/olympics/whatever "we" really needed to sweep the dirt off the house and not under the carpet, as has been done for so long.
I really don't care where the world cup will be hosted, I prefer to watch it at home, anyway. What I *do* care is about the life of those people living in the favelas threatened by the organized crime. Too bad that a really big event was necessary for the police/government/etc take responsibility for what is happening and do something about it. Anyways, lets just hope everything ends well.
As a fellow Brazilian and TLer, I hope everyone in Rio keep safe.
On November 26 2010 01:46 Delta__ wrote: (...) After Rio was chosen to host the 2016 olympics summer games and also some soccer games of the 2014 World Cup, all the world wasn't very sure if the "public security" of the city could handle such a thing, so the goverment came up with a thing that they call "UPP", which means "Pacifier Police Unit", this is a police headquarter that they want to build in every "favela" that is dominated by criminals, so they can take the control of these areas back to the State. So far they have been succesful executing this plan and building an UPP in some small favelas, but the thing is, after the police took control of some areas that were dominated by criminals, they didn't killed or arrested every one that was involved with the "mafia", so these ones that scaped had to go somewhere else, and they went to this exactly favela that the police is trying to build an UPP right now, the "Complexo do Alemão". The police found out that they were all hidden there because some leaders of the mafia in here ordered the bandits to make attaks in order to show the police that they didn't like the UPP thing. So all the mafia members went out the street making vandalism arround the Complexo do Alemão area, and by doing so they just got the police attention to that area and now they're so damn fucked up because this time the State really wants to put an end to their "drugs kingdom", only because of the 2014 & 2016 things.
A good summary. As we all know, people act crazier when cornered, that's what's happening in Rio.
On November 26 2010 03:48 Durak wrote: Do the police really need to raid Complexo do Alemao? Can't they just patrol the area and make sure no one with weapons escapes? That'd probably reduce casualties by a lot and would prevent some civilian casualties.
The favelas are the world's biggest mazes, there are tons of hidden passages inside and passageways to the outside. Most favelas are on the hills (people live there because there was nothing there before so they invade and build house), which make invasions that much harder.
How many of these "gangsters" are actally kids? I mean are there many young ones in the gangs, like 14 years old and so ... :/ I hope for minimal civlian casualties
On November 26 2010 06:51 Jswizzy wrote: I was in the Navy and Rio was one of the ports we hit. I most say that Rio is the scariest play I have ever been.
Cmon man dont leave us hanging with that. Why is is the scariest place you've been to?
Units from BOPE, Polícia Civil, and Marinha. This is freaking intimidating.
I really think that Brazil is doing a good job handling drug cartels, unlike Mexico. It's dirty business, and you need dirty hands to deal with it.
But the Favela is just so big, man. It's so freaking huge.
I'll be going back to Brazil sometime in the near future, to see family&friends&worldcup... and I'd love to see Rio in a better "criminal" situation, too.
"TROPA DE ELITE OSSO DURO DE ROER, PEGA UM, PEGA GERAL TAMBEM VAI PEGAR VOCE!"
This tuesday 25, Rio de Janeiro's police force entered Vila Cruzeiro to arrest criminals who, according to police intel, escaped from communities occupied by the Peacekeeping Police Units (UPP).Shortly after the action began, several men fled the favela to Complexo do Alemao.
The police operation is being lead by the Special Operations Batallion (BOPE), and is using at least 350 men (200 from Police, 150 from BOPE), with support from the Navy, which deployed 9 armored vehicles.
Since Sunday, Rio is going through a wave of violence, vandalism, burning vehicles and attacks against security forces. According to the government, it is a reaction to the UPP policies, referring to the police occupation of territories previously controlled by criminals. At least 23 vehicles have been bombed this thursday alone. Just before 16h, the Military Police (PM) stated that 11 suspects were arrested this thursday, and 3 gallons of gasoline, 6 dynamites and 6 grenades were found. 8 people were killed.
SCARED CITIZENS - Many citizens from Vila Cruzeiro have decided to stay away from home for the past several days. José Pereira, 33, who was shot on the ankle, states: "This whole situation is very sad. My children haven't been to school in 2 days."
Do you want the rest of it? The rest is just an assembly of facts and statistics.
There was some shots fired like 500 meters from where I live, and I live in the wealthiest neighboorhood in Rio, unbelievable, I meeted a few friends a while ago and now they are heading home to their neighboorhood, im scared for them but im sure they will get home alright! Its not that late and they should be there quickly
Wow, the problem here is that it can only really get worse before it gets better, the gangs have to be pacified before this operation can truly end. Especially with the World Cup and Olympics looming. The fact that the criminals are still able to cause trouble outside of their supposed area of confinement now is incredibly troubling. Let's hope police and civilian casualties are low.
On November 25 2010 07:23 nitram wrote: So the people in poverty, shafted by the government, are rallying together to rise up against the rich minority? I have a few well-off Brazilian friends that tell me that the whole system is bullshit and its nearly impossible to get out of poverty.
I came from a poor family myself, and am studying in one of the best universities in Brazil (which is free). It is possible to get rich if you try hard enough. But most poor people just don't believe they can, or don't even think it is possible. It in an education problem. Something Brazil has to work on.
On November 25 2010 07:48 D10 wrote: Honestly ? my personal belief is that as long as gangsters can make money from selling drugs there will be problems with big organized mafias.
We need to legalize drugs at some level, get that off the gangsters hands so they starve to death, without the drug money, they wouldnt be able to pay off anyone, and would quickly be arrested trying dangerous crimes. )
I agree. We should legalize drugs since it is really difficult to stop it. We could then tax it really high to finance security. Many rich people that uuse drugs would rather pay more from a legalized, safe place then buy it from an illegal drug dealer.
On November 26 2010 11:11 zizou21 wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11838472 Police in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, say they now have total control of the Vila Cruzeiro shanty town, as they continue a crackdown on violent drug gangs.
Dam man, The Brazilian police doesn't fuck around. we should get them to help us in afghanistan :p
If you guys have time, watch Tropa de Elite (Elite Squad) and Tropa de Elite 2 (Elite Squad 2). They are interesting Brazilian movies about the police and crime in Rio.
On November 26 2010 11:11 zizou21 wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-11838472 Police in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, say they now have total control of the Vila Cruzeiro shanty town, as they continue a crackdown on violent drug gangs.
Dam man, The Brazilian police doesn't fuck around. we should get them to help us in afghanistan :p
To bad Vila Cruzeiro is like 1/40th of the Complexo do Alemao, but I believe they will get there =)
And the situation is only solvable because its the classic situation of police arresting the badguys, in your case it seems like badguys vs badguys in the eyes of the avg poor afghani.
For those who are keeping up with the situation, do we have any idea in the number of innocent civilians that may be within the Complexo do Alemão with the bandits?
When are we as a world going to wake up and realize the illegality of drugs causes worse problems than the drugs themselves? How many more times must history repeat itself without anyone in power learning a god damn thing, or refusing to admit that because of the political ramifications?
You don't see people murdering each other over vodka (anymore). WONDER WHY THAT IS?
I always wondered what Brazil was going to do about the gangs with the two big sporting events coming up in a few years. Their solution is startling. I wonder how long the government have planned for this assault.
I wonder how long the government have planned for this assault.
If it's anything like America's "war on [certain] drugs", i'd give it about 30 years and I'm guessing they will still be playing this nice little cat and mouse game. Except instead of dropping cartoon pianos on each other they use AK47s and M16s.
I wonder how long the government have planned for this assault.
If it's anything like America's "war on [certain] drugs", i'd give it about 30 years and I'm guessing they will still be playing this nice little cat and mouse game. Except instead of dropping cartoon pianos on each other they use AK47s and M16s.
They have been systematically taking favelas for a long time now (1year or more), the recent massive scale operation is merely a contingency plan to stop the chaos.
On November 26 2010 11:24 DamnCats wrote: When are we as a world going to wake up and realize the illegality of drugs causes worse problems than the drugs themselves? How many more times must history repeat itself without anyone in power learning a god damn thing, or refusing to admit that because of the political ramifications?
You don't see people murdering each other over vodka (anymore). WONDER WHY THAT IS?
I also see innocent people dying in car accidents because of vodka. I totally get your point but it's just not as simple as you want it to be. Just making every drug illegal (if that was somehow viable to do tomorrow) would have many advantages and disadvantages, many of which neither of us could predict with our current knowledge.
On the other hand you have made a strong case for one aspect of the advantage of legalizing drugs!
Sad to see this happening and affecting innocent people. I used to live in Salvador, Bahia for 3 years and the criminal underworld is so massive and hard to control. Police in Brazil are savages too so I'm interested to see how this all turns out (hopefully for the better with the least civilian casualties involved)...
I also see innocent people dying in car accidents because of vodka
I find that personal responsibility takes a back seat in a country like the USA where politicians have to legislate for the lowest common denominator of person. I think legalizing drugs would have many different effects but the two greatest would be that violence (as in humans using metal tubes to shoot out very fast pieces of metal at each other) would stop, and personal responsibility would FINALLY have somewhat of a comeback in the USA, which desperately needs it.
Drugs being legal would lead to more people actually accepting responsibility for themselves and their own bodies which I think would lead to a huge reduction in stupid ass shit that kills other people by "accident" like drunk driving.
On November 26 2010 11:35 shimamoto wrote: Sad to see this happening and affecting innocent people. I used to live in Salvador, Bahia for 3 years and the criminal underworld is so massive and hard to control. Police in Brazil are savages too so I'm interested to see how this all turns out (hopefully for the better with the least civilian casualties involved)...
People were dying in car crashes from vodka when it was illegal as well. There is no way to remove the drugs from society, only to create criminals that sell those drugs.
SgtMuffins, not only that but VIOLENT criminals. I read some article a while back about a dude in Texas who got 60 years in prison for < gram of crack. If I was that poor son of a bitch and I knew that some fucking policeman was about to shit all over the next 6 decades of my life (for what started as a nonviolent crime) I might get a bit violent as well. And I'm a scrawny bitch so if I'm going for violence I'm not going to be using my fists, I'm going to be grabbing a fucking gun.
On November 26 2010 12:12 Trizz wrote: When BOPE joins, everyone dies. Good or bad. (What I heard.)
Thats not ... necessarily... true
BOPE is on a huge wave of success lately, for the last 10 years or so no hostages have died in any situation, but often civilians get caught in the crossfire with them, but almost 99% of the times the stray bullet comes from the bad guys, every 3 months or so you will hear about someone who died from a stray bullet that came out of a police weapon, but they usually cover that up with masterfull media manipulation claiming the gun was stolen by the gangsters.
When the angle from the shot blows any possible cover they just admit it right away and give no names, but I cant really remember that happening in the last 5 years.
reminds me of this movie called My Lai (about the Vietnam War and how our American soldiers killed 400+ Vietnamese Citizens (children, mothers, grandmothers - directed to kill anything that was moving, burn any house down, cut down any plant growing, etc in this town called My Lai in 1969) in 4 HOURS and a failed attempt by the soldiers to cover it up. Very worth watching.. but anyways, stay safe man :/
Since everyone in brazil (and also my close brazillian friend) told me how much of a great movie Tropa De Elite was, I decided to torrent buy it.
Only to realize out of every illegal copy of Tropa De Elite in the internet, there are no reliable subs that is sync and is somewhat accurate except 1, which is this sub http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/subtitles/3265833/tropa-de-elite-en now because opensubtitles.org is a wonderful website, it decides to not load for me (or other members)
On November 26 2010 13:36 jmillz wrote: oppressed poor take to the streets, brazil propaganda protrays it as gangster drug dealers terrorizing the country. hah
Poor people dont possess guns, specially assault weapons.
Maybe in america, in Brazil not only they wouldnt have the money, but its illegal
On November 26 2010 13:34 MrHoon wrote: Since everyone in brazil (and also my close brazillian friend) told me how much of a great movie Tropa De Elite was, I decided to torrent buy it.
Only to realize out of every illegal copy of Tropa De Elite in the internet, there are no reliable subs that is sync and is somewhat accurate except 1, which is this sub http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/subtitles/3265833/tropa-de-elite-en now because opensubtitles.org is a wonderful website, it decides to not load for me (or other members)
Not a verbatim translation, but close enough and it accurately conveys the meaning of whatever is being said.
On November 26 2010 13:34 MrHoon wrote: Since everyone in brazil (and also my close brazillian friend) told me how much of a great movie Tropa De Elite was, I decided to torrent buy it.
Only to realize out of every illegal copy of Tropa De Elite in the internet, there are no reliable subs that is sync and is somewhat accurate except 1, which is this sub http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/subtitles/3265833/tropa-de-elite-en now because opensubtitles.org is a wonderful website, it decides to not load for me (or other members)
I live in Rio, so let me give you a local middle/high class input on the issue.
1 - The slums (favelas) are densely populated areas where poor people live. Since the 80's, they are dominated by criminal factions who make a lot of cash selling drugs (mainly cocaine and pot). With time, the local factions got richer and stronger, with heavy armament like AR-15, FAL 7.62 and M-16 rifles.
The police never really bothered them because they were corrupt (some slums are even controlled by militias formed by local cops, who also sell drugs, pirate cable, sell gas in the slum, charge protection, etc.) , the political leadership was corrupt and fuck it only poor people live there so who cares. As long as the rich, tourist areas were safe, all was fine. There were good intentions, but few practical results.
And the drug dealers went along. They controlled the slums, but didn't use their fearsome firepower to commit petty crimes. They fought between themselves for control of the slums, but avoiding confrontation with the police.
2 - 2 years ago it started to change. The state government started to implement a new idea to fight crime. They would invade the slums, dislodge the drug dealers, and implant a "Pacifying Police Station" in the slum, to assure that the criminals would never return.
During the 1st phase, from dec/2008 to nowish, the police occupied ("pacified") 12 slums. All of those were relatively isolated slums in the middle of the rich areas. Slums were it was easy to surround and establish control. The big slums in the suburbs were left untouched.
Also, the plans for occupation of a slum were widely announced in the media before the fact, so the criminals would have time to flee the slum and the occupation would occur without a shootout.
This phase was a huge success, and today, most of the slums in the rich areas are free from rifle-wielding drug dealers. Those fled to the slums in the suburbs, with all the firepower they had. Very few apprehensions (of guns, drugs or criminals) were made during those police operations.
They also sent the faction leaders, the famous drug lords, to federal max security prisons in other states, disrupting the command chain of the factions (state prisons are also a cesspool of corruption. For instance: Inmates use cellphones to simulate kidnappings and extort money from helpless/naive people).
3 - Despite losing very few men, very few guns, almost no drug and practically no money in those occupations, the factions started to lose revenue, for those occupied slums were very lucrative, and the rich people who buys cocaine wouldn't go to the suburbs to buy their drugs. Middle class drug dealers, who operated in apartments and didn't bear any guns at all, occupied the drug market. Also, the justice started to freeze the assets of the faction leaders and their family.
Finally, the governor of the state of Rio just got reelected, partially because of his security policy.
4 - So we came to this week. Apparently, faction leaders in a federal max security prison in another state managed to send a message to their underlings to start a terror campaign. Since Sunday, 77 vehicles were torched in the streets. You can see some photos here.
To counter that, the police decided to invade one of the most important slum controlled by that faction. Vila Cruzeiro, the slum occupied today, was a bastion of the criminal factions. An investigative journalist was murdered there in 2002, causing an uproar; a police helicopter was shot down there in 2009. And the police intelligence reckoned that a great number of criminals with lots of guns fled from the pacified slums to there. So they decided to invade.
5 - The invasion had logistic support of the Navy, which was surprising since the federal armed forces usually stay the hell away from crime fighting in Rio (states constitutional rights, refusal to be placed in control of state forces, lack of training as a police force in urban area.) Those APCs were even manned by Navy Marines under the command of the police. After 4 hours of gunfighting, over 200 criminals fled through the hills on the rear end of the slum to another even larger slum also controlled by that faction. Watch that video, it's really impressive. The Vila Cruzeiro slum is now completely occupied by the police forces.
The larger slum is called "Complexo do Alemão" (German's Complex), which is actually 13 slums that are really close to each other. Apparently, the police has surrounded it too, but the sheer size of that place makes establishing a perimeter very hard. To accomplish that, the Brazilian Army is sending 800 men and 10 APC, specifically to help establishing the perimeter. No announcements were made, but everyone expects that the police will start invading that slum tomorrow.
6 - Meanwhile, the terror attacks continue. Buses are still being torched, mainly in the suburbs, and I believe there will be even more attacks during the night. The police has every man available patrolling the streets, including the police band, the policemen in administrative duty and even recalling the officers in vacation. The Federal Police will help in special tasks tomorrow, and the National Security Force is ready to support the street patrolling if asked.
The torching and the terror acts probably will keep happening, since the MD of the crooks is boarding buses in pairs with a handguns and backpacks containing gas, ordering everyone out and setting fire on the vehicle from the inside. It happens in a matter of seconds, and the flames can't be put down. They are also torching parked cars in the middle of the night. The police has arrested about a dozen of these guys, and usually manage to capture the ones acting in the rich areas, away from the slums, sadly only after the facts.
7 - The reaction of the citizens is mixed. I think there's overwhelming support for the police forces, but the terror is affecting the daily routine, specially the poor people who commute using buses. Upper/Middle class people in the rich areas haven't been affected, but the images on the media are frightening, and some might feel threatened despite the lack of unusual serious criminal activities in the rich areas. (i think only 2 cars were torched in the south zone, during the night, and they were parked (so no armed robbery) and the culprits were captured.
I think that many people want to see a complete massacre of the criminals. A catharsis of sort. They don't really see the criminals as human beings no more, specially the upper/middle classes. I reckon that if the police invade the Alemão Complex tomorrow, and lots of innocent people get killed as collateral damage, there wouldn't be a huge uproar. At maximum it would be seen as a necessary tragedy. Personally, I think that scenario would suck, and I hope it doesn't happen, but I confess that part of me will be very happy about the dead criminals.
About the reaction of the poor people who live on the area, I saw an image on the TV where the locals were offering water and snacks to the police forces. That usually never happens because in the slums, people who collaborate with the police is usually killed by he criminals. So, for them to be so openly helping the police forces, it seems that they truly believe that the occupation is for good and that the criminals will not return. But I guess that they still don't like the stray bullets.
That's it, for now. Stay tuned for tomorrow's chapter. Looks like its going to be a blast.
On November 26 2010 06:51 Jswizzy wrote: I was in the Navy and Rio was one of the ports we hit. I most say that Rio is the scariest play I have ever been.
Cmon man dont leave us hanging with that. Why is is the scariest place you've been to?
I don't want to bad mouth someones country since I was only there for 3 days and I am sure there is great stuff to see in BR(I lived in Panama for years and it looks bad at first glance there but once you see the rain forest and mountains it is a really cool and beautiful country just not the city area) but to sum it up Disease(aids,yellow fever), Dangerous wild life(mosquitoes, scorpions,snakes), Poverty(slums, gangs, graffiti) and I am still mad that I had to get a small poxes shot that has left a permit scar on my shoulder just to go ashore.
On November 26 2010 06:51 Jswizzy wrote: I was in the Navy and Rio was one of the ports we hit. I most say that Rio is the scariest play I have ever been.
Cmon man dont leave us hanging with that. Why is is the scariest place you've been to?
I don't want to bad mouth someones country since I was only there for 3 days and I am sure there is great stuff to see in BR(I lived in Panama for years and it looks bad at first glance there but once you see the rain forest and mountains it is a really cool and beautiful country just not the city area) but to sum it up Disease(aids,yellow fever), Dangerous wild life(mosquitoes, scorpions,snakes), Poverty(slums, gangs, graffiti) and I am still mad that I had to get a small poxes shot that has left a permit scare on my shoulder just to go ashore.
Oh yea that sucks horribly, all Brazilians have those annoying scars
Yeah, definitely time to rewatch the City of God and Tropa de Elite...
Edit: And to people that actually live there: Do you believe that "cleansing" the favelas is actually something that can happen? As it is, they definitely reduce the attractivenes of RDJ when it comes to upcoming football championships and olympics. Not to mention the drug trading and other criminal activities that are probably abundant there...
On November 26 2010 20:29 Manit0u wrote: Yeah, definitely time to rewatch the City of God and Tropa de Elite...
Edit: And to people that actually live there: Do you believe that "cleansing" the favelas is actually something that can happen? As it is, they definitely reduce the attractivenes of RDJ when it comes to upcoming football championships and olympics. Not to mention the drug trading and other criminal activities that are probably abundant there...
They can enforce peace for a while. At least until 2016, maybe.
I don't think you can "cure" the problem, or that peace will last forever, but I'm happy that this is happening, it's definitely for the best.
On November 25 2010 19:05 Sfydjklm wrote: i was reading about BOPE on wiki, and i was wondering what exactly does knife in the skull mean as a motto?
They kinda of have "license to kill".
I mean, it's not like they can do at free will, but most of the times when they are called, the situation is really bad, so that's what happens, bad people die.
On November 26 2010 20:15 SeF wrote: Yeah...everyday gets more complicated there :/ It's all over the news
I just wanna add, even though its so fast 2nd message to this thread,
In Finland we don't seem to have ANY news about this. Usually We aren't that behind with news like these. Weirds..
It is not weird at all, here in the Netherlands noone is writing about it at all either, we get drowned in news about the EU financial status and stuff regarding the PIIGS countries and Iceland, and a bit of Korea on the side
Brazil?nowhere to be seen
Still,stay safe and hopefully the police will take care of it
On November 26 2010 20:15 SeF wrote: Yeah...everyday gets more complicated there :/ It's all over the news
I just wanna add, even though its so fast 2nd message to this thread,
In Finland we don't seem to have ANY news about this. Usually We aren't that behind with news like these. Weirds..
It is not weird at all, here in the Netherlands noone is writing about it at all either, we get drowned in news about the EU financial status and stuff regarding the PIIGS countries and Iceland, and a bit of Korea on the side
Brazil?nowhere to be seen
Still,stay safe and hopefully the police will take care of it
And you Europeans say the U.S. has no knowledge about the rest of the world... HAH
On November 26 2010 20:15 SeF wrote: Yeah...everyday gets more complicated there :/ It's all over the news
I just wanna add, even though its so fast 2nd message to this thread,
In Finland we don't seem to have ANY news about this. Usually We aren't that behind with news like these. Weirds..
It is not weird at all, here in the Netherlands noone is writing about it at all either, we get drowned in news about the EU financial status and stuff regarding the PIIGS countries and Iceland, and a bit of Korea on the side
Brazil?nowhere to be seen
Still,stay safe and hopefully the police will take care of it
And you Europeans say the U.S. has no knowledge about the rest of the world... HAH
Yeah, I find it odd too that we have heard next to nothing of it. Bums me out, it seems a bit egocentric.
On November 26 2010 20:15 SeF wrote: Yeah...everyday gets more complicated there :/ It's all over the news
I just wanna add, even though its so fast 2nd message to this thread,
In Finland we don't seem to have ANY news about this. Usually We aren't that behind with news like these. Weirds..
It is not weird at all, here in the Netherlands noone is writing about it at all either, we get drowned in news about the EU financial status and stuff regarding the PIIGS countries and Iceland, and a bit of Korea on the side
Brazil?nowhere to be seen
Still,stay safe and hopefully the police will take care of it
Not true. News about this was on the news yesterday and specifically on teletext.
Well, i had to register in TL just to say a few things about this topic
1st of all, the city is nowhere near a civil war, such a thing is very very very unlikly to happen anywhere in Brazil, this is not Colombia where 1 faction control 40% of the territory.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
I lived in Rio almost all my life (left it 3 years ago) and if you live in the rich areas, there is nothing you need to worry about except the usual problems a big city has with some crimes. Of course some times some big shits do happen around it, but its RARE.
Now the suburbs, well thats a holy diferent story. It is very violent, if you dont know where you are going you might end up in same shitty place and yes, it may cost your life due some drug dealer or whatever. But the thing is, there is no "secondery power" in Rio challengin the current power for the right to rule, as a civil war would. They are just responding to the new actions that the state of Rio is doing to fight crime, which they have done before and failed, and will probably fail again. You guys might think that everyone in Rio is living in fear and nobody wants to leave their home, but that is not how things work down here. Most of us simply dont care about wtf is going on in the suburbs and keep going on with our normal lifes since we are "protected" from the danger. It is a very very big city, so dont think that because something crazy is happenin in Rio, it doesnt mean its happenin around ALL Rio. But anyway, i think i typed too much...
And for the original post, man, if you live in Barra da Tijuca or Zona sul, and you are scared to leave your house, you need a frickin doctor...for real
Hey, altho the media is covering it up bigtime (i wonder why) there has been shots fired in parque das rosas (condo in barra) where I live, busses burned in different points of Barra da Tijuca and zona sul, if you think the situation is under complete control its quite obviously you are not here.
Also, I went out yesterday night and it seemed ok, when I get home everyone is freaking out because shots were being fired there rosas 1 hour earlier.
They even threw a molotov in the parking lot of barra shopping but didnt manage to set anything on fire.
Certainly ridiculously safer than the suburbs, goes to show how fucked up the situation is.
Reinforcements from army consisting of 800 soldiers and 10 tanks are arriving right now at complexo do alemao... shit will get serious very fast and everyone is talking right now about the action of army on a urban area
On November 27 2010 02:38 Lucho wrote: My sister lives in Parque das rosas, so i guess ill call her to confirm that shots have really been fired there.
And im not sayin its under control, im just sayin it doesnt fall into the concept of a civil war
Attacks are scattered all around the city... that why everyone is pretty much scared.
My friend from Rio told me that this is very localized to the slum regions. While he often sees some cars burning in the streets on his way to college from the bus. Other than that, nothing changed for those who don't live near slums.
But it's worth mentioning that the action from the army bringing heavily armed men and even tanks to the streets is just a "security theater". Just like TSA screenings in US airports. They're made to make the population feel safe. But have a really insignificant effect. Rio has over 400 slums. When the army invade ones, they can just run to the next. And they have been doing that since forever. And at the rate they take to invade, they'll never catch up.
The problem isn't much different now from what it has ever been for decades and won't get better anytime soon if they don't attack the core of the issue. Which is police corrution. Even the current governor this time admitted that the police cannot be trusted. The issue is well know for a long time. But no one is trying to solve it.
It's simply not as populist to fight corruption than it is to put tanks in the streets. They'll go for what gives the most votes.
Eventually the situation will calm down. Then it will come back. As it always has. For decades.
There's is a side effect to every militar operation that happens anywhere in world, violation of human rights... In spoiler a nsfw picture (gore), low-res showing some criminal corpses...
I just heard on TV that a soldier was shot. Don't seem like his life is at risk, and I coudn't find any news about it on the internet. If I find something else I share it with you.
On November 27 2010 05:15 fabiano wrote: heavy weapons can torn your body apart with no effort at all...
I understand that, but looking at the picture, the injuries seemed pretty damn "smooth", as if it were sliced. Hell the entire arm is lying just right beside the body.
The problem isn't much different now from what it has ever been for decades and won't get better anytime soon if they don't attack the core of the issue. Which is police corrution.
im sorry, but police corruption aint the core of the problem, its just another part of it (mostly due their low salaries) The real core of the problem is traffic, and drug consumers (middle-high class shitheads) it and finance all the drug dealers. Not to say the lack of funds to patrol the borders to stop weapons from coming in, since ppl in the slums do not make those.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
Actually, Im pretty sure they have american grenade launchers, and night vision goggles. Saw it in a documentary and they showed the confiscated weaponry.
But yeah, the state is so corrupt and the gangs thrive off the police, and vice versa. It was only a matter of time. The structure is too unstable.
The funny thing is, the police ram down the doors of favela civilians, but the rich are the ones buying the drugs.The wealthy class in Rio doesn't want the drug gangs on theuir turf but they're willing to buy their drugs. The policve know this but you don't see them busting down the doors of the wealthy.
I'm not saying this is an excuse for the gangs, just a reason.
On November 27 2010 05:19 nbMifu wrote: I just heard on TV that a soldier was shot. Don't seem like his life is at risk, and I coudn't find any news about it on the internet. If I find something else I share it with you.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
Actually, Im pretty sure they have american grenade launchers, and night vision goggles. Saw it in a documentary and they showed the confiscated weaponry.
But yeah, the state is so corrupt and the gangs thrive off the police, and vice versa. It was only a matter of time. The structure is too unstable.
The funny thing is, the police ram down the doors of favela civilians, but the rich are the ones buying the drugs.The wealthy class in Rio doesn't want the drug gangs on theuir turf but they're willing to buy their drugs. The policve know this but you don't see them busting down the doors of the wealthy.
I'm not saying this is an excuse for the gangs, just a reason.
Yes, they do have heavy guns, including rocket launchers. Last year they even took down a helicopter.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
Actually, Im pretty sure they have american grenade launchers, and night vision goggles. Saw it in a documentary and they showed the confiscated weaponry.
But yeah, the state is so corrupt and the gangs thrive off the police, and vice versa. It was only a matter of time. The structure is too unstable.
The funny thing is, the police ram down the doors of favela civilians, but the rich are the ones buying the drugs.The wealthy class in Rio doesn't want the drug gangs on theuir turf but they're willing to buy their drugs. The policve know this but you don't see them busting down the doors of the wealthy.
I'm not saying this is an excuse for the gangs, just a reason.
Yes, they do have heavy guns, including rocket launchers. Last year they even took down a helicopter.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
Actually, Im pretty sure they have american grenade launchers, and night vision goggles. Saw it in a documentary and they showed the confiscated weaponry.
But yeah, the state is so corrupt and the gangs thrive off the police, and vice versa. It was only a matter of time. The structure is too unstable.
The funny thing is, the police ram down the doors of favela civilians, but the rich are the ones buying the drugs.The wealthy class in Rio doesn't want the drug gangs on theuir turf but they're willing to buy their drugs. The policve know this but you don't see them busting down the doors of the wealthy.
I'm not saying this is an excuse for the gangs, just a reason.
Yes, they do have heavy guns, including rocket launchers. Last year they even took down a helicopter.
On November 27 2010 02:57 Holcan wrote: Best of luck to anyone in Brazil/Rio de Janeiro.
I hope that none of you are caught in the crossfire of violence that is not your fault.
In Rio, its a big country, what is happenin there, is happenin ONLY there i live in Curitiba and thank god this city is perfect
You should hope it stays that way. Mexico is basically on the verge of collapse.
No its not, things are going pretty bad. But its nowhere near collapsing. Actually the government is getting some serious support from the population because of how antagonistic Drug dealers have been to the population.
Not that I think this war against them will do much, but please don't make such huge statements about stuff like that
im sorry but no, they dont have rocket lauchers, they took out a helicopter with a .50 neither night googles...get ur fact straight
I'm not referencing the helicopter. I saw in a documentary one of the BOPE officers saying that they found high tech equipment in the favelas, including launchers and night vision, stuff that even Brazilian athorities don't have. I'm just taking his word for it.
It's not wide-spread obviously but there are some cases where such weapons were confiscated. This is straight from a BOPE so if I'm wrong don't blame me.
In Rio, organized crimes do control most of the slums, and yes, they heave a lot of big guns (not rocket laucher or nukes) but some nice guns...
Actually, Im pretty sure they have american grenade launchers, and night vision goggles. Saw it in a documentary and they showed the confiscated weaponry.
But yeah, the state is so corrupt and the gangs thrive off the police, and vice versa. It was only a matter of time. The structure is too unstable.
The funny thing is, the police ram down the doors of favela civilians, but the rich are the ones buying the drugs.The wealthy class in Rio doesn't want the drug gangs on theuir turf but they're willing to buy their drugs. The policve know this but you don't see them busting down the doors of the wealthy.
I'm not saying this is an excuse for the gangs, just a reason.
Yes, they do have heavy guns, including rocket launchers. Last year they even took down a helicopter.
im sorry but no, they dont have rocket lauchers, they took out a helicopter with a .50 neither night googles...get ur fact straight
I didn't say they took the helicopter with the rocketlauncher. I said they took down the helicopter, which they did. And that they have rocket launchers, which they do.
OK, now the police just said some minutes ago on TV that if the bandits wants to turn themselves in, this is the time to get in line and give up, because in short time they're going in the Complexo do Alemão and "things will get complicated for the criminals"
im sorry but no, they dont have rocket lauchers, they took out a helicopter with a .50 neither night googles...get ur fact straight
I'm not referencing the helicopter. I saw in a documentary one of the BOPE officers saying that they found high tech equipment in the favelas, including launchers and night vision, stuff that even Brazilian athorities don't have. I'm just taking his word for it.
so brazilian athorities dont have night vision? really? 2010? ....
im sorry but no, they dont have rocket lauchers, they took out a helicopter with a .50 neither night googles...get ur fact straight
I'm not referencing the helicopter. I saw in a documentary one of the BOPE officers saying that they found high tech equipment in the favelas, including launchers and night vision, stuff that even Brazilian athorities don't have. I'm just taking his word for it.
so brazilian athorities dont have night vision? really? 2010? ....
Emphasis goes on 'high tech equipment', not what the equipment does.
I just read on the Dutch news and the BBC that the gangsters in Alemao have been given an ultimatum to surrender and give up their arms before midnight (presumably Rio local time) or else the police and army go in full force.
If that happens it will be a bumpy night most likely.
I love how we only kill each other over certain drugs.
I watch my fatass coworkers slam like 6 coffees a day, but any other stimulant we better bust out the fucking machine guns and start KILLING MOTHERFUCKERS.
Let's prescribe our kids amphetamines for acting out in class and watching too much TV and then be surprised when it turns out they like meth!
Don't forget all the people in the country with pain, who get their daily fix of opiates from a dude in a white lab coat and cruise on home with no trouble. But you get caught with heroin instead of a bunch of pills that do the exact same thing? PRISON BITCH, GRATS.
On November 28 2010 07:45 DamnCats wrote: I love how we only kill each other over certain drugs.
I watch my fatass coworkers slam like 6 coffees a day, but any other stimulant we better bust out the fucking machine guns and start KILLING MOTHERFUCKERS.
Let's prescribe our kids amphetamines for acting out in class and watching too much TV and then be surprised when it turns out they like meth!
Don't forget all the people in the country with pain, who get their daily fix of opiates from a dude in a white lab coat and cruise on home with no trouble. But you get caught with heroin instead of a bunch of pills that do the exact same thing? PRISON BITCH, GRATS.
People are so fucking stupid.
You're actually putting coffee and painkillers on the same level as heroin, amphetamines and other illegal drugs?
Yes, yes I am. ESPECIALLY the fucking painkillers and heroin part. And in case you didn't know, about a trillion (yes, I am exaggerating) kids in this country get amphetamines called ritalin and adderall spoonfed to them by assholes.
edit: ritalin isn't actually an amphetamine i don't think but whatever. still a stimulant of some sort.
On November 28 2010 07:35 Golden Ghost wrote: I just read on the Dutch news and the BBC that the gangsters in Alemao have been given an ultimatum to surrender and give up their arms before midnight (presumably Rio local time) or else the police and army go in full force.
If that happens it will be a bumpy night most likely.
Yes. Until now, Estadão (big BR newspaper) reports that 31 criminals have already surrenderet. Police believes there are about 500 of them in Alemao.
On November 28 2010 07:56 DamnCats wrote: Yes, yes I am. ESPECIALLY the fucking painkillers and heroin part. And in case you didn't know, about a trillion (yes, I am exaggerating) kids in this country get amphetamines called ritalin and adderall spoonfed to them by assholes.
edit: ritalin isn't actually an amphetamine i don't think but whatever. still a stimulant of some sort.
But you need a prescription, and it's legal to obtain those pills? And comparing caffeine to heroin? Technically everything is a drug. Sugar is a drug, it makes you slightly energetic and fat.
I dunno what the point of your post is except to legalize heroin. Which sounds pretty dumb.
On November 28 2010 07:56 DamnCats wrote: Yes, yes I am. ESPECIALLY the fucking painkillers and heroin part. And in case you didn't know, about a trillion (yes, I am exaggerating) kids in this country get amphetamines called ritalin and adderall spoonfed to them by assholes.
edit: ritalin isn't actually an amphetamine i don't think but whatever. still a stimulant of some sort.
So what do you suggest people with debilitating pain do? Are you saying these drug dealers and criminals are trafficking these drugs for the same reasons doctors do?
Technically everything is a drug. Sugar is a drug, it makes you slightly energetic and fat.
Which is exactly why drawing a completely arbitrary line in the sand over some and not others is straight up retarded. And I was not comparing caffeine to heroin, I was comparing shit like oxycontin and oxymorphone to heroin. And I'm guessing the mother of an innocent child who gets a bullet to the head by someone shooting at someone else over this shit wouldn't think decriminalizing heroin is dumb.
Are you saying these drug dealers and criminals are trafficking these drugs for the same reasons doctors do?
Yes, except it's not the doctors, its the goddamn pharmaceutical companies. Tell me the difference between Purdue, GlaxoSmithKline, Merck, etc... and Mexican/Brazilian drug cartels? I'll give you a hint, no one from Merck is decapitating police officers and hanging their bodies off bridges.
I honestly agree with you DamnCats, there will always be violent drug lords raising to the ocasion, the only way to stop it, is to stop making drugs an option of profit to criminals.
And the only way to do that is legalizing them in someway.
On November 28 2010 09:43 D10 wrote: I honestly agree with you DamnCats, there will always be violent drug lords raising to the ocasion, the only way to stop it, is to stop making drugs an option of profit to criminals.
And the only way to do that is legalizing them in someway.
If there are ANY illegal activities there will Always be a market for illegal activities. Murder (hits) Theft (this one is self paying, no market necesary) etc.
The issue is if the activity is wrong enough that making the activity illegal is worth driving the market for it underground. (The CIA/FBI/cops could make a lot of money if murder was legalized, and they'd have to spend a lot less on investigations where the victim is dead.)
The issue is if the activity is wrong enough that making the activity illegal is worth driving the market for it underground.
And I think the past 30 years of the "war on drugs" have proven that no, it is absolutely 100 percent NOT worth driving the market underground in this case. You are comparing inherently VIOLENT crimes with doing drugs, which is inherently NON VIOLENT, and only becomes violent when it becomes illegal. No one has to bring a gun to the liquor store.
something I don't get is that, how can a criminal gang have the guts to openly go against authority? I mean maybe Brazil is just very different, but imagine this happening in the US or China. Wouldn't they just get wiped out like nothing?
On November 28 2010 10:57 iloahz wrote: something I don't get is that, how can a criminal gang have the guts to openly go against authority? I mean maybe Brazil is just very different, but imagine this happening in the US or China. Wouldn't they just get wiped out like nothing?
Brazil is very different, plus, in Rio it took a very long process to get to this point.
On November 28 2010 10:57 iloahz wrote: something I don't get is that, how can a criminal gang have the guts to openly go against authority? I mean maybe Brazil is just very different, but imagine this happening in the US or China. Wouldn't they just get wiped out like nothing?
To be honest with you, they are wiped like nothing, the real problem, is the innocent they use as shield.
A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
On November 28 2010 17:05 Golden Ghost wrote: A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
On November 28 2010 17:05 Golden Ghost wrote: A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
Is there a reason why BOPE isn't using helmets?
Because Helmets aren't really that useful. They can't do shit vs bullets for example. I think that they are used mostly for shock waves, shell fragments, falls etc...
I think that they prefer to have better awareness and less weight on their head.
Helmets are primarily to protect your head from shrapnel, and are more useful when fighting from fixed positions where the enemy is using explosive to get your out of your foxhole/trench/ whatever
Much less useful for storming room to room (which is what BOPE is doing)
thats why my sergeant told me anyway
Rifle goes straight thru helmet at 100meters, 5-30 meteres helmets are useless
On November 28 2010 18:50 GenericTerranPlayer wrote: Helmets are primarily to protect your head from shrapnel, and are more useful when fighting from fixed positions where the enemy is using explosive to get your out of your foxhole/trench/ whatever
Much less useful for storming room to room (which is what BOPE is doing)
thats why my sergeant told me anyway
Rifle goes straight thru helmet at 100meters, 5-30 meteres helmets are useless
I thought the modern helmets are not suppose to stop a direct shot to the head but they should've being adequate production against glancing shots and shrapnel :/
Oh shit. I left Rio 1 week ago, luckily before this all started. To somewhat explain why the criminals fight back:
I spent a day in the Rocinha favella (largest favella in Latin America) and the 88 drug gang there were training roughly 100 uniformed gangsters with rifles on street combat, more specifically how to navigate the narrow alleys of Rocinha without being caught in crossfire. You see, the police have been executing a programme of pacification of the favelas for 2 years now. There are alot of favellas in Rio (over 500). Our guide told us that many of the druglords from other favellas belonging to 88 had come to Rocinha due to this pacification (Rocinha has not been pacified yet) because it was not as convenient to deal drugs. So it is only a matter of time until they decide to fight back. Why fight back? Well Rocinha alone produces 20 tonnes of pure cocaine per month. They sell it to middlemen for around $20 a gram. $400million per month. And these criminals are young! They are recruited by the gangs as young as 7 or 8 years old. By the time they are ~12 they have the responsibilty of carrying weapons, so many of these guys the police are trying to kill/capture are only 15/16 and their whole life has been in the gang with their culture of violence and drugs. Hell the leader of 88 had his 24th birthday not long ago and he is considered fucking ancient, he's been leader for a lengthy 4 years. So in summary. Money but more importantly, the gang culture.
The gangs have been established in the favelles for 25+ years now, the governments of the time let them become established. If the police had gone in back then it would have been much easier than it is now.
My question for Cariocas. Is this operation just in the Complexo do Alemao? And is it likely to occur in other favellas also. My understanding is that there are 3 main gangs in Rio, have they allied to fight the police or is this gang the only one that will be subdued in this operation?
And lastly folks, don't let this taint your opinion of Rio. Rio is an incredible city, as you will see during the world cup and olympics. And most residents of the favellas are honest hard-working people that have no choice but to share their neighbourhoods with the gangs.
Outside Western countries there are still many other developed countries that deal with alot of corruption, violence and political instability. Brazil is not even the worst example in South America. But for the people living there, it's life as normal. That's just the way its been for a long time now. Money or military are in power and they have neither. Times have been changing slowly though, and the governments have been improving (from a viewpoint of democracy and corruption).
Sorry for my ignorance, I know very little on the matter.
I expect that by WC and Olympic games Rio will be a much safer place than its rightnow, however the drug cartels are far away from being shutdown.
It would need this kind of operation in all the states of Brazil (at a waaaay smaller proportion though), and reinforce the borders with Venezuela, Colombia, Peru and Bolivia.
In a very skeptical way, I couldnt care less what happens there. apparently this shitstorm is basically the result of many many years of crappy social politics, leading up to youngsters being lured to the power and lifestyle crime can provide. but what can I say, we live in the most democratic republic in the world we deserve our rulers and lawmakers all is happening there has been broght, mostly, by themselves So i'm on the verge of saying "serves yall right" but i'll keep the politically correct speech so I wont step on anyone's toes =)
On November 28 2010 17:05 Golden Ghost wrote: A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
Is there a reason why BOPE isn't using helmets?
Because Helmets aren't really that useful. They can't do shit vs bullets for example. I think that they are used mostly for shock waves, shell fragments, falls etc...
I think that they prefer to have better awareness and less weight on their head.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. A US Marine in Afghanistan suffered two concussions, both times getting hit in the head from an 7.62x39 round from an AK. Guess why he survived and was able to keep going? His helmet. The fact they're not wearing helmets is just plain stupid, however, based on their gear from the pictures they're not well funded enough especially for how specialized they're supposed to be. Irons on everything, no plates, etc. etc.
On November 28 2010 17:05 Golden Ghost wrote: A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
Is there a reason why BOPE isn't using helmets?
Because Helmets aren't really that useful. They can't do shit vs bullets for example. I think that they are used mostly for shock waves, shell fragments, falls etc...
I think that they prefer to have better awareness and less weight on their head.
That's the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. A US Marine in Afghanistan suffered two concussions, both times getting hit in the head from an 7.62x39 round from an AK. Guess why he survived and was able to keep going? His helmet. The fact they're not wearing helmets is just plain stupid, however, based on their gear from the pictures they're not well funded enough especially for how specialized they're supposed to be. Irons on everything, no plates, etc. etc.
No its not stupid, your US marine got hit from hundreds of meters away. in a shanty town helmets are useless
Well well well, the police took control of the most dangerous favela of the entire country, and this place was like the HQ of a very big criminal organization called Red Command, as far as I know, just TODAY they have found like 6 tons of cacaine, this quantity of cocaine usualy takes 3 months to be seized. They also found some .30 rifles, lots of ammo and U$ 30.000.
It's important to notice that the Red Command is the only organization that sells the Crack drug, and this drug is actually the most dangeours one because it's very cheap and ppl gets addicted to it really fast. So taking the Red Command down is a very important achievement for Rio.
The governator said on tv that he wants to continue the pacification process in Rio and take control of all the rest of the favelas that are controled by gangs, and I guess that if they were able to make it in the most dangeours favela they'll have no problem to do it in the others. That's why I am very confident that Rio is gonna be A LOT better and less dangeours by the time of the WC and olympic games.
An important thing to say is that no inocent people were killed during the operations today, not even one. That's really good, shows that even though the gangs are very well armed, our policemen are way more superior than they are.
The last thing to say about this operation is that the police says it's going to take some time, like one month, to finish sweeping the entire area and after that they'll be able to get into another operation to take control of another favela. The next one is probably Rocinha, because the same way Complexo do Alemão was a HQ to Red Command, Rocinha is the HQ of the second biggest criminal organization of Rio.
Thanks to all of you for caring about Brazil and what happened in here.
On November 29 2010 02:18 Delta__ wrote: Well well well, the police took control of the most dangerous favela of the entire country, and this place was like the HQ of a very big criminal organization called Red Command, as far as I know, just TODAY they have found like 6 tons of cacaine, this quantity of cocaine usualy takes 3 months to be seized. They also found some .30 rifles, lots of ammo and U$ 30.000.
It's important to notice that the Red Command is the only organization that sells the Crack drug, and this drug is actually the most dangeours one because it's very cheap and ppl gets addicted to it really fast. So taking the Red Command down is a very important achievement for Rio.
The governator said on tv that he wants to continue the pacification process in Rio and take control of all the rest of the favelas that are controled by gangs, and I guess that if they were able to make it in the most dangeours favela they'll have no problem to do it in the others. That's why I am very confident that Rio is gonna be A LOT better and less dangeours by the time of the WC and olympic games.
An important thing to say is that no inocent people were killed during the operations today, not even one. That's really good, shows that even though the gangs are very well armed, our policemen are way more superior than they are.
The last thing to say about this operation is that the police says it's going to take some time, like one mounth, to finish sweeping the entire area and after that they'll be able to get into another operation to take control of another favela. The next one is problably Rocinha, because the same way Complexo do Alemão was a HQ to Red Command, Rocinha is the HQ of the second biggest criminal organization of Rio.
Thanks for all of you for caring about Brazil and what happened in here.
30k? Some guns? Either this is the tip of the iceberg and they will find a lot more in the following days and weeks or something's not right. In the war against cartels Mexico has found ridiculous amounts of stuff and from what I've read this place was so infested with criminals that there should be a lot more.
Squeegy, yeah, as I said, there is an entire month for the police to finish sweeping the area, because it's too big. Today they have only taken control of the area, and the next days comming they will be doing the search for weapons, drugs, money and etc.
On November 29 2010 02:18 Delta__ wrote: Well well well, the police took control of the most dangerous favela of the entire country, and this place was like the HQ of a very big criminal organization called Red Command, as far as I know, just TODAY they have found like 6 tons of cacaine, this quantity of cocaine usualy takes 3 months to be seized. They also found some .30 rifles, lots of ammo and U$ 30.000.
It's important to notice that the Red Command is the only organization that sells the Crack drug, and this drug is actually the most dangeours one because it's very cheap and ppl gets addicted to it really fast. So taking the Red Command down is a very important achievement for Rio.
The governator said on tv that he wants to continue the pacification process in Rio and take control of all the rest of the favelas that are controled by gangs, and I guess that if they were able to make it in the most dangeours favela they'll have no problem to do it in the others. That's why I am very confident that Rio is gonna be A LOT better and less dangeours by the time of the WC and olympic games.
An important thing to say is that no inocent people were killed during the operations today, not even one. That's really good, shows that even though the gangs are very well armed, our policemen are way more superior than they are.
The last thing to say about this operation is that the police says it's going to take some time, like one mounth, to finish sweeping the entire area and after that they'll be able to get into another operation to take control of another favela. The next one is problably Rocinha, because the same way Complexo do Alemão was a HQ to Red Command, Rocinha is the HQ of the second biggest criminal organization of Rio.
Thanks for all of you for caring about Brazil and what happened in here.
30k? Some guns? Either this is the tip of the iceberg and they will find a lot more in the following days and weeks or something's not right. In the war against cartels Mexico has found ridiculous amounts of stuff and from what I've read this place was so infested with criminals that there should be a lot more.
I bet 10 bucks that police will find a secret underground tunnel in the next week.
On November 28 2010 17:05 Golden Ghost wrote: A little side question: I have seen a lot of pictures of BOPE members these last few days but in none of them they are wearing a helmet. In other countries the special forces teams that I know of all wear them just like the military as can also be seen in the above pictures.
Is there a reason why BOPE isn't using helmets?
Because helmets don't really do shit. They are more for reassurance than anything else.
DALHE BOPE! they need to get Wagner Moura to kick the Drug Dealers asses! On a serious note the slums of Rio has always been ran by the drug dealers. It was just a matter of time before they gained enough power to make a stand that has lasted this long.
Funny thing that happened today was a man who brought his son, that was the chief of a drug-selling point in Complexo do Alemão, to be arrested by the cops and he said to the reporters: "I told him that some day he would have to pay for what he does"
On November 29 2010 05:08 r3z3nd3 wrote: Funny how Rio had all this firepower and never did anything. But this is really good news, putting all those drug dealers in jail.
On another news...
Well, g the police found 4 tons of weed? My gosh, prices are going up.... And, in case you are wondering, no, I don't smoke.
it was 4 tons of cocaine. My guess is that their supply was going to a lot of the slums and likely to Europe. Some of it may have made it to the U.S. but who knows. We get a majority of our coke from Central America, and the Northern countries in South America. Also the Red Command were the only group that cooked the cocaine into crack. Way more addictive, so it would fly out the kitchen.
and yea that dude is a total badass haha! Smokin a stogey while pwnin bad guys. The Brazilian Duke Nukem!! rofl
In reference to helmets not doing crap, your standard helmet, as mentioned, wouldn't really do anything at close range except block shrapnel maybe. At long range, they would probably do better, but I've seen bullets that can penetrate a helmet like that at 500 yards, .223. I read somewhere that some private companies offer helmets better than the NATO grade stuff, and they advertise that it can stop a 9mm at relatively short range.
Even if a helmet did manage to stop a bullet, enjoy your broken neck.
I fear for the people in the streets, and what sucks most is that I wanted to go out today
Nice attitude going on there D10. Also stumbled about a post of yours in the High Thread, complaining about getting no weed or somthing like that because of the whole story. That honestly disgusts me.
Hopefully things will change for the poor in Brazil in the future and they'll get more benefits from the economic rise of your country.
Now back to the important things in life: RET FIGHTING! ;o
People love to blame anyone who does a little puff over all violence problems.
The fact that police quickly got organized and destroyed one of the most violent gangster strongholds in rio, where 2 of the biggest criminal factions in rio were united dishing out terror, doesnt say anything to who the blame should really fall too ?
If the state didnt completely abandon the situation decades ago, it would never get to the point it is today, and at the first sign of necessity, they quickly fixed the situation.
They have allowed violent gangsters to murder people inside the favelas with almost 0 punishment for decades, because they were either too coward or too corrupt to get their duty done, and you see this legion of uninformed people claim some rich kid smoking a joint somewhere is responsible for all that is happening.
Its simply not true, this situation is 100% the states fault, the state allowed favelas to be built, then ignored their existance, and focused all its manpower into stopping stoners and getting bribes from them for DECADES.
It was not until we got the olimpics and the WC that this "who the fuck cares about the favelas" mentality changed in politics.
Had they not caved in to illegal settlements, payed their officers more and hired more police always confronting them gangsters instead of giving them fucked up recognition, we would have never seen this kind of escalation.
Even the US and EU, places where theoretically the system works, you can mostly score weed in almost every single american town.
As long as its illegal, there will be an illegal market for it, imagine the billions of dollars in tax that could be benefiting education, health care, and public security, but instead of harnessing this potential money to the people the almighty state and the dictatorship of the majority decides in its infinite wisdom that this money is best used by gangsters building bathtubs in favelas.
Helmets arent there to stop bullets... if they do, good for them. they are there for debris and other such shit flying through the air. say sharp rocks or a ricochet bullet hits your head. and you dont have a helmet on. have fun digging a bullet out of your skull. cuz it wont kill you. just put you in a lot of pain.
for the "little puff" thing. if 1 million people did little puffs that adds up fast and is tons of business. also how many people go back after the one puff? dont think shit like that doesnt matter.
People love to blame anyone who does a little puff over all violence problems.
The fact that police quickly got organized and destroyed one of the most violent gangster strongholds in rio, where 2 of the biggest criminal factions in rio were united dishing out terror, doesnt say anything to who the blame should really fall too ?
If the state didnt completely abandon the situation decades ago, it would never get to the point it is today, and at the first sign of necessity, they quickly fixed the situation.
They have allowed violent gangsters to murder people inside the favelas with almost 0 punishment for decades, because they were either too coward or too corrupt to get their duty done, and you see this legion of uninformed people claim some rich kid smoking a joint somewhere is responsible for all that is happening.
Its simply not true, this situation is 100% the states fault, the state allowed favelas to be built, then ignored their existance, and focused all its manpower into stopping stoners and getting bribes from them for DECADES.
It was not until we got the olimpics and the WC that this "who the fuck cares about the favelas" mentality changed in politics.
Had they not caved in to illegal settlements, payed their officers more and hired more police always confronting them gangsters instead of giving them fucked up recognition, we would have never seen this kind of escalation.
Even the US and EU, places where theoretically the system works, you can mostly score weed in almost every single american town.
As long as its illegal, there will be an illegal market for it, imagine the billions of dollars in tax that could be benefiting education, health care, and public security, but instead of harnessing this potential money to the people the almighty state and the dictatorship of the majority decides in its infinite wisdom that this money is best used by gangsters building bathtubs in favelas.
Quite true man, in brazil there's no thinking in future, and we (politics people) don't think of countermeasures in long term, we care about what is happening now. I could say that there's the risk of we don't have world cup in brazil, because our state is too lazy to do things fast !!
well...brazil sucks...at least we have StarCraft 2 to get this fucking country of my mind !!
Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
On November 30 2010 02:33 fabiano wrote: Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
We need to stop electing clowns to the house of representatives too
Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
About the question some of you had about the lack of helmets. I just heard on TV one of the guys who is responsible for their equipment saying that the helmets "Gets soldiers too tired after long walks on urban areas, where they have to move their heads a lot. Since it also limits sight too much."
poor rallying up to go kill rich people, hope the cops kill them thats not how you solve anything. If I work hard and got rich I don't want no poor coming at me to kill me cause I worked hard.
Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
True, sad but True !!
Responding to an earlier post, Brazil has to be the easiest country to score weed in, by far.
Brazil is not so bad, at least you guys have a good economy and decent jobs. We dont have anything .
Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
True, sad but True !!
Responding to an earlier post, Brazil has to be the easiest country to score weed in, by far.
Brazil is not so bad, at least you guys have a good economy and decent jobs. We dont have anything .
You beat us at soccer, you have that =O
edit: Situation has mostly stabilized, as I predicted, the drug dealers escaped from the favela before it was invaded by an underground sewer tunnel from early 1900's to another favela 2km from there, and then vanished.
Brazil has everything it takes to be a developed country, but there are just a few things that is holding us off:
- Political corruption - Criminality - Lack of complete education (since primary school up to university) culture for the majority of people (usually poor people). Every child wants to become a Ronaldinho and not an Einstein.
If you have formal education, you will live a good life in this country. We just need to change our culture so education is priority, and not sports.
True, sad but True !!
Responding to an earlier post, Brazil has to be the easiest country to score weed in, by far.
Brazil is not so bad, at least you guys have a good economy and decent jobs. We dont have anything .
You beat us at soccer, you have that =O
We beat you only when we play for nothing. If there was a bottle of soda at stake, the brazilians would 3-0 or 5-0 us as happened in the last Copa America or in the Confederations cup.
On December 02 2010 02:58 Domokan wrote: poor rallying up to go kill rich people, hope the cops kill them thats not how you solve anything. If I work hard and got rich I don't want no poor coming at me to kill me cause I worked hard.
1) Most of the rich in brazil are rich because they were born rich.
2) It's not "the poor" rallying to kill rich people. It's gangsters, people involved in drugs and crime organizations that were causing shit on the street to show power against the pacifying act the police were performing.
On December 02 2010 02:58 Domokan wrote: poor rallying up to go kill rich people, hope the cops kill them thats not how you solve anything. If I work hard and got rich I don't want no poor coming at me to kill me cause I worked hard.
1) Most of the rich in brazil are rich because they were born rich.
2) It's not "the poor" rallying to kill rich people. It's gangsters, people involved in drugs and crime organizations that were causing shit on the street to show power against the pacifying act the police were performing.
The police are actually helping the poor by displacing the drug dealers. Drug dealers make millions of dollars selling drugs, weapons and prostitutions in the favelas or shantytowns. This allows them to effectively rule over the favela, forcing the honest poor people who live in them (the vast majority) to live in fear and under constant abuse of every kind imaginable.
Additionally, the drug dealers bring a bad reputation to the favelas which makes it harder for the people to live in them to get legitimate employment, since employers will be wary of their potential criminality just by virtue of them living in the favela.
Clearing of criminals is clearly the way to go not only for the 2014 world cup but also to rehabilitate Rio and make it a more tourist friendly city than it already is. Lula can afford to do this now that he is on the way out and has secured his legacy through Dilma.
Brazil has been doing things right in Latin america for a while now and I have to give them props for that. I wish we had leadership of that quality here instead of a bunch of goddamn crooks.
On December 1, police discovered four gang members shot dead, in an abandoned automobile. A 13- year old illiterate, drug-using, orphaned female, detained on December 3, confessed to being part of the gang that attacked the 350 bus on Passeio-Iraja bus line and identified the four dead males as having participated in the attack.
They were reportedly ordered murdered by a gang leader named Mica, who is vying for control of the gang with the head of drug trafficking in the Morro da Fe, Lorde, who ordered the original bus attack. Police, however, are also investigating other possible explanations for these acts, such as retaliation against a crooked cop attempt to extort the gang or Brazil's most feared druglord, Fernandinho Beira-Mar of the Red Command (Comando Vermelho), ordering the hit from his maximum security seclusion in the north of Brazil for unknown reasons. An anonymous phone call to the police, ostensibly by a Red Command member, said the four dead gang members were not shot in the head, specifically so that they could be recognized both by the victims and the police.
This was from the 2005 incidents, but the cable keeps going on how the situation is generally always the same.
About 250 members of an elite police unit moved into the shantytowns, which have been virtual no-go areas for the security forces.
The operation is part of a long-term plan by the Brazilian authorities to retake poor areas of the city from drug gangs.
Police said the operation was peaceful, but that many gang members had escaped.
Police Captain Ivan Blaz said residents had been warned of the imminent police action, but that as a result most of the criminals they had sought had left the area.
He said his agents were searching the area house by house.
"Many criminals hide in houses and pretend to be normal residents, so we're going to move slowly and with care," Captain Blaz explained.
The Brazilian government has said it wants to rid Rio of drugs gangs ahead of the 2014 Football World Cup and the 2016 Olympic Games.
Thursday's sweep targeted the Engenho Novo area near the Maracana football stadium, which will host the final of the World Cup.