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On November 12 2010 23:38 Zoler wrote: Things like this keep making me doubt USA being a civilized country. -.-
User was warned for this post
pretty stupid thing to say imo
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On November 13 2010 02:17 a176 wrote:Of course the school is not going to allow it. It took me all of a minute to find this, Show nested quote +About Our School Our Mission Ivanhoe Girls' aims to provide the best learning and teaching which, underpinned by the Christian philosophy, enables every girl to achieve her potential and to be a confident, optimistic and responsible citizen.
You can't take that quote to mean what you say becuase depending on there placement on the conservative liberal scale they might not have anything against homosexuality. For example I can mention that one of the bishops of the swedish church is a lesbian. So unless you know exactly where they stand you can't take the stand you seem to do.
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I often have doubts that there are ANY civilized countries
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On November 13 2010 02:26 Carentino wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 02:17 a176 wrote:Of course the school is not going to allow it. It took me all of a minute to find this, About Our School Our Mission Ivanhoe Girls' aims to provide the best learning and teaching which, underpinned by the Christian philosophy, enables every girl to achieve her potential and to be a confident, optimistic and responsible citizen. You can't take that quote to mean what you say becuase depending on there placement on the conservative liberal scale they might not have anything against homosexuality. For example I can mention that one of the bishops of the swedish church is a lesbian. So unless you know exactly where they stand you can't take the stand you seem to do. Saying is one thing then actually knowing. In this case, it was clearly broadcasted.
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On November 12 2010 03:39 FishForThought wrote: ... it would be discrimination if they refuse to let her join the formal because of her sexual orientation but it is not discrimination to forbid her to bring guest of the same sex. The formal is hosted by the school, they have all rights to create rules and guidelines for the event. If the event specified that all guests must be males, then there is no discrimination involved.
People need to stop getting all defensive and insecure about these things; sooner or later people will cry sexist for not being able to get into an all female/male school because he or she is not that gender, or cry free speech violation for not being able to enter a restaurant nude.
This is correct. Thanks Fish. For. Eat?
Anyway, I'm against both discrimination (of any kind) and any moral ground that states being/supporting a gay lifestyle is just fine. They are two different things, however. They cross paths sometimes, maybe often, but they are not the same.
They should have been allowed to go to the dance regardless of their 'orientation,' but they should not have been allowed to go together as a couple. And that is just what happened. I don't see the problem.
All these arguments ever boil down to is what you believe morally. If you believe homosexuality is morally ok, then you probably support the girls in their anger. If you believe homosexuality is morally wrong, then you should disagree that this is a problem.
People will argue about discrimination issues, but it has not yet reached that bridge until you first solve the morality question.
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Legal drinking age in Australia is 18. This kid was inviting other kids to her home to illegally consume alcohol before a school function... and people are mad at the school for trying to rain on her parade? IMO, I'd prefer the school that my kids attend some day in the future just expel people who participate in illegal activity, especially if they bring other kids into it.
Her sexual preference issue is fair, however. She should be able to go the damn dance with whatever "guest" she chooses.
EDIT: After reading the post above me, I retract the last part of the statement. Schools making rules is fine, especially if they apply to everyone. I feel for troubled youth.
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On November 13 2010 01:59 Asjo wrote: I'm curious, since you sound so certain that they are lying, what do you feel puts you in a position to judge whether they are lying.
historical precedent.
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On November 13 2010 02:54 red_b wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 01:59 Asjo wrote: I'm curious, since you sound so certain that they are lying, what do you feel puts you in a position to judge whether they are lying. historical precedent.
If only using historical precedent, you would have to conclude they aren't lying. Since, after all, historically, schools surely haven't lied about the majority of decisions of this kind. That aside, we have to deal with the fact that we know that not all schools are lying about rules they make for formal events - far from it. So, regardless of historical precedent, which can only support suspicion, there must be other factors in this case to give cause for your certainty in judging their motives.
Edit: Unless what you mean is that you are using intuition, through a subconscious process judging from fine details where you recognize very specific patterns of behaviour you have observed previously. In other words, it "feels" obvious that they are wrong, even if you don't know why exactly.
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I don't get it. Are you making your case by highlighting one instance out of what surely must be millions? If so, what ends does that serve?
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It is a: PRIVATE SCHOOL CHRISTIAN SCHOOL And they can do whatever they want in regards to situations like this. My school (Private, Christian) Expelled a student who became openly gay.
Its my guess that if the other students there are Christian, the girls' relationship makes them very uncomfortable and probably would not be unhappy with a similar decision.
Also, whats with the pitiful "they took our posters down!" of course they did, it is not an open forum for discussion there. You go to a school like that, you play by their rules. END OF STORY.
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Who do you think is the submissive one?
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The one of the right has a little Emma Watson thing going on, too bad she plays for the other team.
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I have a question for people that keep using hte "private argument." This is not rhetorical, it's an actual question in which I don't know the answer.
Why can private schools discriminate, but private businesses cannot? For example, if I want to open my own restaurant, not funded by the government or anything, I cannot refuse service to homosexual couples, minorities, whites, etc. Where in the law does it make schools exempt?
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On November 13 2010 04:18 FabledIntegral wrote: I have a question for people that keep using hte "private argument." This is not rhetorical, it's an actual question in which I don't know the answer.
Why can private schools discriminate, but private businesses cannot? For example, if I want to open my own restaurant, not funded by the government or anything, I cannot refuse service to homosexual couples, minorities, whites, etc. Where in the law does it make schools exempt? It actually depends on what kind of business you are undertaking and wether or not it's open to the public. You can't open a pizza parlor and say 'heterosexual adult white males only' but you could, for example, provide an invite-only service of whatever sort (we'll say a gun club, for sake of argument) and you're able to discriminate however you please.
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On November 13 2010 03:15 Scrapiron wrote: It is a: PRIVATE SCHOOL CHRISTIAN SCHOOL And they can do whatever they want in regards to situations like this. My school (Private, Christian) Expelled a student who became openly gay.
Its my guess that if the other students there are Christian, the girls' relationship makes them very uncomfortable and probably would not be unhappy with a similar decision.
Also, whats with the pitiful "they took our posters down!" of course they did, it is not an open forum for discussion there. You go to a school like that, you play by their rules. END OF STORY.
Long have bigots hidden behind this skirt, but the courts have ruled overwhelmingly that private institutions and religious institutions can still violate civil rights. It doesn't matter that they are closed-enrollment, unless it can be materially proven that the student was removed for a reason other than sexual orientation, the court requiring very strong evidence here.
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On November 13 2010 04:24 Ympulse wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 04:18 FabledIntegral wrote: I have a question for people that keep using hte "private argument." This is not rhetorical, it's an actual question in which I don't know the answer.
Why can private schools discriminate, but private businesses cannot? For example, if I want to open my own restaurant, not funded by the government or anything, I cannot refuse service to homosexual couples, minorities, whites, etc. Where in the law does it make schools exempt? It actually depends on what kind of business you are undertaking and wether or not it's open to the public. You can't open a pizza parlor and say 'heterosexual adult white males only' but you could, for example, provide an invite-only service of whatever sort (we'll say a gun club, for sake of argument) and you're able to discriminate however you please.
So say I wanted an invite-only service for a gun club. I could openly state "invitations will only be given out to heterosexual white males. No homosexuals, minorities, or females allowed. If we find out you have any color in your blood you will be asked to leave."
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On November 13 2010 04:29 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2010 04:24 Ympulse wrote:On November 13 2010 04:18 FabledIntegral wrote: I have a question for people that keep using hte "private argument." This is not rhetorical, it's an actual question in which I don't know the answer.
Why can private schools discriminate, but private businesses cannot? For example, if I want to open my own restaurant, not funded by the government or anything, I cannot refuse service to homosexual couples, minorities, whites, etc. Where in the law does it make schools exempt? It actually depends on what kind of business you are undertaking and wether or not it's open to the public. You can't open a pizza parlor and say 'heterosexual adult white males only' but you could, for example, provide an invite-only service of whatever sort (we'll say a gun club, for sake of argument) and you're able to discriminate however you please. So say I wanted an invite-only service for a gun club. I could openly state "invitations will only be given out to heterosexual white males. No homosexuals, minorities, or females allowed. If we find out you have any color in your blood you will be asked to leave." Worded more carefully, yes.
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The one on the left has some huge hands. :o
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The countervailing right against equal protection is typically free association. I do not know how the courts would rule in these gun-club or pizzeria examples, though.
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