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[QUOTE]On October 09 2010 09:05 No_Roo wrote:
[QUOTE]On October 09 2010 07:18 Simplistik wrote:
Ultimately all they can do is clear the surface as quickly as possible. The rest will be up to rain and rivers to dilute. The metals won't do an aweful lot anyway. And to people who say stuff like "it's got a high pH so it's toxic", they are wrong. CaOH and NaOH are not classed as toxic, they are classed as corrosive. Yes, they damage skin and you'd probably die if you drank enough of it. However, they are not poisons, which is what the "toxic" label on chemicals normally means. [/QUOTE]
Poison:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poison
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal.
Toxic:
+ Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxic
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous
you do realize that one is a noun and the other is an adjective?
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On October 10 2010 05:50 ELA wrote:
Fucking hell - Get your shit together hungarians! Who the hell storages toxic sludge like that? If it were in Denmark, the people responsible would get a life sentence in jail!
GJ on destroying an eco-system that runs all the way through europe... How can you be a member of the european union storing toxic shit like that?
such a shining beacon of intellect you are.
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with the wall coming down (seemingly) piece-by-piece why can't they just throw a huge exterior perimiter blockade around the entire thing so if the wall breaks the stuff will at least be contained?
I kind of doubt the leakage will stop with this next piece of the wall coming down tbh >,<
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On October 12 2010 04:16 dbizzle wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2010 09:05 No_Roo wrote:On October 09 2010 07:18 Simplistik wrote:
Ultimately all they can do is clear the surface as quickly as possible. The rest will be up to rain and rivers to dilute. The metals won't do an aweful lot anyway. And to people who say stuff like "it's got a high pH so it's toxic", they are wrong. CaOH and NaOH are not classed as toxic, they are classed as corrosive. Yes, they damage skin and you'd probably die if you drank enough of it. However, they are not poisons, which is what the "toxic" label on chemicals normally means. Poison: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poison
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal. Toxic: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxic
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous you do realize that one is a noun and the other is an adjective?
I'll entertain this even though this should be obvious.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poisonous
"full of or containing poison"
Poisonous(adj) is to poison(n) as toxic(adj) is to toxin(n)
Does this clear it up for you?
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lol No_roo personally owning everyone in this thread. But yeah, disasters suck, that dog picture made me sadface, but I did wonder if the PH is 13 then why he still has hair. Don't most hair removers have a high PH or are they generally acidic?
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why dont they just balance it out by adding highly acidic substances into the dilluted red shit? isnt that like high school chemistry knoweldge that if you want to reduce the ph value of something add inn a substance that has the opposite value. Just curious as to what they are actually doing to combat it outside of flushing it away.
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fucking hungarian newbies
this is all over the news here in Croatia, but apparently we are not in danger even tho Hungary is a direct neighbor. This is not nearly as dangerous as a radioactive accident, but still it's heavy.
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On October 12 2010 17:29 Madkipz wrote:
why dont they just balance it out by adding highly acidic substances into the dilluted red shit? isnt that like high school chemistry knoweldge that if you want to reduce the ph value of something add inn a substance that has the opposite value. Just curious as to what they are actually doing to combat it outside of flushing it away.
actually they are doing that, as I wrote about it on the 2nd page or so
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On October 12 2010 17:04 No_Roo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 04:16 dbizzle wrote:On October 09 2010 09:05 No_Roo wrote:On October 09 2010 07:18 Simplistik wrote:
Ultimately all they can do is clear the surface as quickly as possible. The rest will be up to rain and rivers to dilute. The metals won't do an aweful lot anyway. And to people who say stuff like "it's got a high pH so it's toxic", they are wrong. CaOH and NaOH are not classed as toxic, they are classed as corrosive. Yes, they damage skin and you'd probably die if you drank enough of it. However, they are not poisons, which is what the "toxic" label on chemicals normally means. Poison: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poison
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal. Toxic: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxic
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous you do realize that one is a noun and the other is an adjective? I'll entertain this even though this should be obvious. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poisonous"full of or containing poison" Poisonous(adj) is to poison(n) as toxic(adj) is to toxin(n) Does this clear it up for you?
Poisonous(adj) is to poison(n) as toxic(adj) is to toxin(n)
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/toxin
noun
any poison produced by an organism, characterized by antigenicity in certain animals and high molecular weight, and including the bacterial toxins that are the causative agents of tetanus, diphtheria, etc., and such plant and animal toxins as ricin and snake venom
Given that none of the chemicals in the red sludge are toxins, the sludge is not toxic.
Glad we could resolve this argument.
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On October 12 2010 19:33 vetinari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2010 17:04 No_Roo wrote:On October 12 2010 04:16 dbizzle wrote:On October 09 2010 09:05 No_Roo wrote:On October 09 2010 07:18 Simplistik wrote:
Ultimately all they can do is clear the surface as quickly as possible. The rest will be up to rain and rivers to dilute. The metals won't do an aweful lot anyway. And to people who say stuff like "it's got a high pH so it's toxic", they are wrong. CaOH and NaOH are not classed as toxic, they are classed as corrosive. Yes, they damage skin and you'd probably die if you drank enough of it. However, they are not poisons, which is what the "toxic" label on chemicals normally means. Poison: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/poison
n.
1. A substance that causes injury, illness, or death, especially by chemical means.
2. Something destructive or fatal. Toxic: + Show Spoiler +http://www.thefreedictionary.com/toxic
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or caused by a toxin or other poison
2. Capable of causing injury or death, especially by chemical means; poisonous you do realize that one is a noun and the other is an adjective? I'll entertain this even though this should be obvious. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/poisonous"full of or containing poison" Poisonous(adj) is to poison(n) as toxic(adj) is to toxin(n) Does this clear it up for you? Poisonous(adj) is to poison(n) as toxic(adj) is to toxin(n)http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/toxinnoun any poison produced by an organism, characterized by antigenicity in certain animals and high molecular weight, and including the bacterial toxins that are the causative agents of tetanus, diphtheria, etc., and such plant and animal toxins as ricin and snake venom Given that none of the chemicals in the red sludge are toxins, the sludge is not toxic. Glad we could resolve this argument.
Nope:
+ Show Spoiler +Your assertion is wrong: containing a toxin is only one way to be categorized as "toxic" Here's your own source on the subject of of the word "toxic" http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/toxic"acting as or having the effect of a poison; poisonous" Also, humans are organisms, and humans produced the red sludge which is a poison because it is actively harming other organisms.
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This thread could use some moderation to deal with the grammar spam.
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why is everyone complaining about the proper definition of toxic? Is it really something that crucial?
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Personally I've never liked engineers as a whole. I've always found that the only reason why they aren't considered illiterate is because they're good with numbers. It is sad that all of these ecological disasters are making that prejudicial and not-to-be-taken-seriously statement on their intelligence seem accurate now :\
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On October 13 2010 04:53 Teivospylol wrote:
why is everyone complaining about the proper definition of toxic? Is it really something that crucial?
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Personally I've never liked engineers as a whole. I've always found that the only reason why they aren't considered illiterate is because they're good with numbers. It is sad that all of these ecological disasters are making that prejudicial and not-to-be-taken-seriously statement on their intelligence seem accurate now :\
lol
I guess your next complaint is that all women are whores
User was warned for this post
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I'm more inclined to believe there's pressure on the engineers to use as little money as possible in poor countries for these things, and they're probably hastily built. Blaming engineers is probably not very smart.
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On October 13 2010 05:17 Slayer91 wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe there's pressure on the engineers to use as little money as possible in poor countries for these things, and they're probably hastily built. Blaming engineers is probably not very smart.
It's not just in poor countries. How do you think the coal mine explosions or BP oil spills happen? It happens in every company that puts profits ahead of safety.
As for the proper use of toxic: whatever. Laymen...
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On October 13 2010 05:09 freelander wrote:
lol
I guess your next complaint is that all women are whores
ok?
On October 13 2010 05:17 Slayer91 wrote:
I'm more inclined to believe there's pressure on the engineers to use as little money as possible in poor countries for these things, and they're probably hastily built. Blaming engineers is probably not very smart.
I don't agree with the whole poor country thing, nor do I agree with trying to argue a point by using the word "probably", but the greed aspect of business is a possibility for sure.
Even if that is the case though, it is still the engineer's job to make sure that a design is functional and safe and then to sign off on it. Maybe a degree in engineering should come with a semester of building a spine? After all, what is the point of getting a degree to design safe structures if you aren't able to say "no that isn't safe"? Being unable to say no even with pressure is still incompetence and although the company is definately liable, don't act like this isn't the fault of the engineers.
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I don't agree with the whole poor country thing, nor do I agree with trying to argue a point by using the word "probably", but the greed aspect of business is a possibility for sure.
Even if that is the case though, it is still the engineer's job to make sure that a design is functional and safe and then to sign off on it. Maybe a degree in engineering should come with a semester of building a spine? After all, what is the point of getting a degree to design safe structures if you aren't able to say "no that isn't safe"? Being unable to say no even with pressure is still incompetence and although the company is definately liable, don't act like this isn't the fault of the engineers.
Well I'm one semester off graduating with a degree in chemical engineering and I can tell you that issues regarding safety and environment are RAMMED down our throats almost to an obnxious frequency. Not only that, the goverment and public are quite forceful with environmental protection measures with the massive surge in oil/gas production occuring in the north west of west aus, where tourism for the natural environment is of large importance. Even grad/vac work applications for companies harp on about safety with a few open ended questions about safety practices.
It really does differ from country to country though, if you look at a few american incidents it does raise questions as to what they were doing in regards to safety measures.
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The grammar debate ends here. If you have something to contribute, feel free, but if you're just here to argue over the semantics of toxic vs poison then you should move on.
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The most ridiculous thing is that they built up a kind of small new barrage directly next to the most affected village in like 2 days, meanwhile the government secularized the company which caused this and they are already thinking about relaunching it. lol?
It miraculously became safe now when the government running it?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/46000/46360/devecser_ali_2010282.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/imagerecords/46000/46360/devecser_ali_2010282_2.jpg)
