EPT1) War's effects on the human psyche (isolation, fear of death, killing another human being)
2) The power of "chain of command"
3) Tangible objectives of war
So how's that spread of democracy going?
US Army: Soldiers killed Afghans for sport - Page 2
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TheGreatWhiteHope_
United States335 Posts
1) War's effects on the human psyche (isolation, fear of death, killing another human being) 2) The power of "chain of command" 3) Tangible objectives of war So how's that spread of democracy going? | ||
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
Most wars are brutal on both sides beyond comprehension for most people that have never actually experienced it. Saying this shit happens in every war situation doesn't justify it, however. It just shows that people need to be absolutely certain they want to go to war in the first place and are ready to accept the consequences. When you put kids into situations where they are purposely desensitized towards the value of human life, this sort of shit is going to happen. It's disgusting and it's wrong, but odds are, something similar is going to happen in most war situations. It's disappointing to see the ignorant masses push for wars they dont understand and then cringe when they are forced to see that war involves more than what you see in most hollywood movies. | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:59 RiB wrote: Things to account for when thinking about this story: 1) War's effects on the human psyche (isolation, fear of death, killing another human being) 2) The power of "chain of command" 3) Tangible objectives of war So how's that spread of democracy going? It's going fine, thank you. We've achieved stability in Iraq and we think we can do the same in Afghanistan. | ||
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Peking)
United States54 Posts
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Danze
Australia219 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:54 Fa1nT wrote: Uh... people are bad..? I mean, if you take a sample of 10000 hard working, church-going, everyday citizens. Theres probably a good chance at least a few of them are pedophiles, a few may be spouse abusers, one may even be a murderer. When you take people in the ARMY, those numbers just skyrocket due to some of the shit they go through while oversees. Basically, all I am saying is that any large group of people are going to have bad representatives. Militaries even more so. Go look back into russian and german armies and what THEY did to people. That's right you proud American Citizen. Lets forget about this incident and instead jump up and down about what Russian and German armies did in the past. This topic is talking about what has happened now. This is not an opportunity for you to point fingers at another country in order to defend the actions of a few or derail the thread. Topic "USA Soldiers do something wrong" Response "But look what Germany did!" Are you three years old? People already know about the horrors of the past. People have already jumped up and down about that. The only relevance your pointing back in History has is that we never learn from it. The same cruelty; the same murder; the same stupid wars that have gone on for countless years. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:00 motbob wrote: It's going fine, thank you. We've achieved stability in Iraq and we think we can do the same in Afghanistan. Debatable. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Reaper9
United States1724 Posts
That being said, I voice my disgust at this, but I hope that this can be resolved as quickly as possible and that the cretins be brought to justice. The worst we can do right now is try to cover it up. A fair, public trial. But as they are in the military, I am assuming it will be a military trial. By the way, it does not matter what country humans are from. There are great shining examples of humanity, and then there is this. | ||
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FindingPride
United States1001 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:45 sikyon wrote: Do you think the military is made up of people in the top 10% of their class in high school or the bottom 10%? People are not nice. The world is not a nice place. Worse shit than this happens everywhere in the world. That doesn't make it excusable, but it happens. I am willing to tolerate, to a certain extent, a violation of my morals to ensure that I can keep on living my comfortable life. Does valuing myself, my family, and my friends, and my countrymen over strangers make me a bad person? Possibly, but it doesn't bother me much as long as I just compartmentalize it. thats for making that generalization on bottom 10%. most of my family is in the army you ass, COMPLETELY uncalled for. | ||
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wadadde
270 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:00 motbob wrote: It's going fine, thank you. We've achieved stability in Iraq and we think we can do the same in Afghanistan. I don't want to derail the thread here, but stability in Iraq existed before the billions (trillions) were spent on a war that resulted in the loss of more that 1 million Iraqi civilian lives. The US has left behind a culture of secret prisons and torture (or to put it nicer : it didn't put an end to the practice) and now the extent of the problem is coming to the surface. Stating that stability has been achieved in Iraq is a bit of an overstatement, wouldn't you say? This remains to be seen. All that's certain is the extent of the damage and the scope of the violence. | ||
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Contagious
United States1319 Posts
Also, for all the people jumping on the hate American military band wagon because of this, are stupid. The military does a lot for the world, obviously, there are stories like this that go on, but what country doesn't have a shit load of skeletons in their closet? The whole smoking hash laced with opium argument is retarded, but it looks like their attourney is just looking for anyway out since him and everyone knows their guilty. | ||
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JamesJohansen
United States213 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:28 Diuqil wrote: My respect for MOST U.S. soldiers gets lower and lower every day" Well, I was against jumping into the TL scene but fuck it this comment is just too much. Anyways, this is too the know-it-all kids on the sight who say "fucking soldiers, godammit" it general, not just this guy. Comments like this really show just how disconnected with reality most people really are. 1. Every fucking profession has psychos join up at some point in time. Why the fuck are soldiers exempt from being mentally ill? You see all kinds of nutjobs in the US army just as you might see many in the salvation army, this cannot be fixed. 2. War isn't some little chess game where enemies exchange being nice to each other. Bad shit happens, terrible unspeakable shit that makes most grown men stand back in shock. Its not right, but its part of war and has gone on since the dawn of time. 3. This comment disrespects all of the many service men who want nothing more than to do their duty to their respective countries. I know its fashionable to say all soldiers are baby rapers but give me a break, show a little respect for guys that get shot at for a bunch of old white assholes all in the name of protecting a nation. 4. I know many individuals who would do nothing more than jump on a live grenade for their brothers in service. They have a true belief in the their soldier's oath and stand by each other no matter what. This won't be taken seriously by anyone here since most of you know everything and then some and are the respective voices of authority even over the soldiers that work to keep your free speech so i don't know why i bother. | ||
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Whiladan
United States463 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:13 wadadde wrote: I don't want to derail the thread here, but stability in Iraq existed before the billions (trillions) were spent on a war that resulted in the loss of more that 1 million Iraqi civilian lives. The US has left behind a culture of secret prisons and torture (or to put it nicer : it didn't put an end to the practice) and now the extent of the problem is coming to the surface. Stating that stability has been achieved in Iraq is a bit of an overstatement, wouldn't you say? This remains to be seen. All that's certain is the extent of the damage and the scope of the violence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack I completely disagree. | ||
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A3iL3r0n
United States2196 Posts
The world is a perverse place, and that somehow this is a worse category of killing than other sorts of killing the army does is a meaningless distinction to me. War is fucked up no matter how you slice it. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:54 Fa1nT wrote: Uh... people are bad..? I mean, if you take a sample of 10000 hard working, church-going, everyday citizens. Theres probably a good chance at least a few of them are pedophiles, a few may be spouse abusers, one may even be a murderer. When you take people in the ARMY, those numbers just skyrocket due to some of the shit they go through while oversees. Basically, all I am saying is that any large group of people are going to have bad representatives. Militaries even more so. Go look back into russian and german armies and what THEY did to people. Ok studies don't describe everything. Just because there are a lot of them doesn't make it acceptable or right that they did this. I don't care how many people are involved because they signed on to protect their country not just shoot whatever they see. Frankly you trying to rationalize these actions through statistics sickens me. To me you are accepting what they did as normal. | ||
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SweetNJoshSauce
United States468 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:13 wadadde wrote: I don't want to derail the thread here, but stability in Iraq existed before the billions (trillions) were spent on a war that resulted in the loss of more that 1 million Iraqi civilian lives. The US has left behind a culture of secret prisons and torture (or to put it nicer : it didn't put an end to the practice) and now the extent of the problem is coming to the surface. Stating that stability has been achieved in Iraq is a bit of an overstatement, wouldn't you say? This remains to be seen. All that's certain is the extent of the damage and the scope of the violence. He's talking about the results after the surge in 2007, and he's right. There's substantial evidence that the surge of 2007 paved the way for the almost halt in violence in the years after. It probably wont be mimicked in Afghanistan though since our fearless president sent 1/2 of the recommended troops that was suggested by his top generals. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
These soldiers are going to be misrable for the rest of their lives. There isn't many places more misrable than a military prison. They will live a horrible, painful, and depressing life for as long as they are alive. | ||
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GreEny K
Germany7312 Posts
I will laugh at anyone who says that Iraq is now a stable land because of US interference. Not only are we starting to pull out at a horrible time but we didn't even get rid of the threat. There are still people there who will try to take over once the US influence is gone. | ||
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SweetNJoshSauce
United States468 Posts
On September 28 2010 10:21 GreEny K wrote: I will laugh at anyone who says that Iraq is now a stable land because of US interference. Not only are we starting to pull out at a horrible time but we didn't even get rid of the threat. There are still people there who will try to take over once the US influence is gone. I was a machine gunner for dozens of missions all over the Al Anbar province(triangle of death) in 2009. I went on more missions then almost anyone in Al Asad and I fired my weapon 0 times. Seems pretty stable to me.... But yes, after we pull out completely all hell will probably break lose | ||
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Half
United States2554 Posts
On September 28 2010 09:56 wadadde wrote: Great. So the implied message is that wars like this one keep you safe and wealthy. How delightfully insightful. I would say that ranking the lives of strangers based on whether they're part of your imaginary club makes you a real dick indeed. Many people are dicks, probably most of them. I do find it dishonest to put friends and family in the same category as countrymen, even if you really feel that way. There's a real and extremely crucial difference between people you've a personal connection to and ones you don't. You support these wars too, you pay taxes. I'm not going to defend this act, but this is the reality of war. By continuing to live in the United States, you support its hegemony, and really, you only have a right to disagree with this to a certain extent. | ||
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