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On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument?
Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people.
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On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:
[quote]
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people.
Thanks for spewing out irrelevant facts. You still haven't answered what this has to do with Atheism lacking morality.
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On September 19 2010 17:45 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:29 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:15 aimaimaim wrote:On September 19 2010 16:45 blitzkrieger wrote:
If Hitler used the Church for anything it was just that, to use them. I'm pretty sure Japanese aren't a master race according to Hitler (or Italians for that matter) yet he enlisted their aid to accomplish his own goals. If Hitler had won I am sure he would have disposed of not only the Church but also Japan when he saw fit.
I mean even if you believe the Catholic Church helped Hitler I don't think anyone believes that Christian values and Nazism have any real similarities. And its in the Christian religion that the Church (organization) can and will become corrupt, it was said be Jesus too.
If you take away religion you are just left with natural selection. And people will abuse that to say who is "fit" or not and be even more selfish. I mean WW2 already had that. Life is a FFA where every action is to gain and everyone are really enemies. There is no justification for anything except to further oneself. Things like abortion are already accepted by many and soon we will have designer babies because "its not a life". They already do selective abortion in China for women which is a huge problem, I read there will be 120million bachelors in China in a few years because they aborted so many female babies, wish I had the source...
I think atheism is the most dangerous thing out there because it removes all restraints and takes away any morals and inserts nothing. Human beings are selfish and evil and taking off the restraints will unleash the monster. You can justify anything with atheism as long as if further's your own goals. Atheists are only accountable to themselves and can easily change any moral or value. We have already seen it with Hitler, Stalin, and Mao among others. Human beings become expendable and their is no value to life (look at abortion). People are already selfish and apathetic but the rise in militant atheism is going to make it even worse.
Most people believe this even though the internet, and gaming are filled with young liberals/atheists for the most part so I'll get like 50 flames for this but I don't care. You can criticize me and the Pope all you want but I should be able to criticize atheism just as well.
wtf are you talking about?? morals? you look for morals in religion? tell me 1 concrete event where atheism is bad and ill give you 10 concrete events why organized religion is bad .. fuck the pope .. tell me, why do christians all over the world needs a pope? Only Catholics follow the Pope. And there are like 2+ billion Catholics. I can give many reasons religion and the abuse of scripture can be bad as well. I can only find ONE reason for doing something good in Atheism (social contract) and thats not even doing good, that is looking for a reward for mutual benefit. Help is only given if it can return some other form of help. I can't find anything good with the Bible. You're basically out for yourself because then you wouldn't get into Heaven. See what I did there? You can't find anything good in the Bible at all? What about not murdering people? Oh wait that is ok because you are an atheist. So actually you wouldn't find anything because there are no values. Be fruitful and multiply is probably the only thing an atheist can agree with.
I thought the universal condemnation of your ignorant rants was enough...but you keep plunging further and further up your own ass, and the shit you're sucking out is intolerable.
You idiotically pretend that an atheist's life is empty and an atheist's mind is morally bankrupt, even in the face of genuine atheists patiently refuting your derogatory fantasies in real time. You grasp at lies for an excuse to hate your fellow man, and you conclude with smug superiority that you're a better person because you need the illusion of an all-powerful divine hand jerking you off day in and day out, or you'd gleefully rape and kill everyone you've ever met.
As you reject coherence, please absorb this point. God demands you shepherd your fellows into heaven - and your eternal celestial blowjobs IMMORTAL SOUL is at stake. The shit you peddle will catch more flies if you stop waving your arms and frothing like a lunatic. So shut the fuck up until you can craft a single helpful word.
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On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:
[quote]
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people.
Look you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.
You got ID confused with Social Contract and skipped the whole Superego part.
Social Contract is not a fucking sublimnal drive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Contract
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On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:
[quote]
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people.
That's not true. Humans as well as animals commit acts of compassion without reward or fear of punishment. Hell, even with loss. According to your world view, chimpanzee's are ethically superior to human beings. :D
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+ Show Spoiler +On September 19 2010 17:46 CheezDip wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:26 wesleyq wrote:
While on the topic of religion... just curious, is following Buddhism as a way to live life but not believe any of the afterlife things atheism?
Atheism is plain and simply the lack of belief in any deities. People have proposed the existence of gods, whether they be Allah, Yahweh, Zeus, Ra, or so on. An atheist has not been convinced that any of those proposed gods are real. Nothing else is required or disallowed to be called an atheist. Many atheists strive to be scientifically literate and skeptical, others couldn't care less about science or reality. A person could believe in ghosts or fairies or unicorns or any other silly and irrational superstitions, and still not believe in a god. There is nothing in Buddhism that speaks to the existence of a god. Some Buddhists believe in gods, while others do not and can be called atheists. Hope that answers your question.
Yes! Thank you very much kind sir! 
On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:On September 19 2010 17:01 blitzkrieger wrote:
I hate getting into these arguments because I don't have any sources for anything anymore... but there is no value to human life in atheism at all. Humans are just another animal. If you can profit off the expense of another human thats fine.
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed.
Okay my english isn't too great but... This whole thing seems to be a fight between the public and a few close minded christians. The way I see it blitz, you're calling anyone who isn't christian an atheist. or at least that is what i'm feeling from all this talk. your words are written in an offensive way and you try to portray us as monsters for not believing the same beliefs you do. I for one believe that I get my morals through the teachings of Buddha. I dunno. I'm more of a I love everyone type of person but people like you who try to push religion and beliefs on to others disgust me.
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@Blitzkrieger, I wrote something regarding your claim that atheism would take all morale away from humans, sadly it's the last post of page 6, so probably unread by most of you. Take a look at it.
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On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:10 Blix wrote:
[quote]
Do you realize that this (and one of your previous statements) is actually quite offensive to atheists? Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people.
Apocalypse movies have got this guy scared of atheism. nuff said.
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On September 19 2010 18:09 snpnx wrote:
@Blitzkrieger, I wrote something regarding your claim that atheism would take all morale away from humans, sadly it's the last post of page 6, so probably unread by most of you. Take a look at it.
Don't bother. He's either a troll or one of those ultra-religious people. We can't use reason to deal with him.
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As you reject coherence, please absorb this point. God demands you shepherd your fellows into heaven - and your eternal celestial blowjobs IMMORTAL SOUL is at stake. The shit you peddle will catch more flies if you stop waving your arms and frothing like a lunatic. So shut the fuck up until you can craft a single helpful word.
Eh, I'd have to say reading that made wasting an hour of my life talking to fucking inanimate object worth it.
k cya broski have fun in heaven
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On September 19 2010 18:01 cursor wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 17:58 ShadeR wrote:
Who is more moral?
The man who helps his struggling neighbour because he believes that is what god wishes of him.
Or
The man who helps his struggling neighbour because he feels empathy for a fellow human being. I think that is a great point. Or, let alone, the one who acts out of Fear- which would obviously be even worse.
Ah I didn't see that post.
Both would feel empathy and it would be "good" for both to help. However deeds do not make one go to heaven and deeds aren't the basis for salvation in Protestantism. When you have faith in God you are able to go to heaven. Same for Islam/Judaism but Catholicism has its own thing.
Protestants don't act out of fear. In fact fear is more close to revere usually. And if there is anything to fear it should be God since God has power over everything.
The whole thing with Jesus was we couldn't save follow the Law so if we have faith we are redeemed (but most try to act right and you can't fake God out). Its about intentions and faith.
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On September 19 2010 18:06 TOloseGT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:23 blitzkrieger wrote:
[quote]
Yes. I find offense in many things everyday all day. If you can show me how this isn't true please tell me. Atheism strips meaning and purpose and value from everything except self preservation and reproduction. Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people. Thanks for spewing out irrelevant facts. You still haven't answered what this has to do with Atheism lacking morality.
Every act is to gain.
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anyone else finds Blitzkrieger's nick mildly ironic? While Hitler wasn't the first to employ the tactics as it had been used at the end of the great war in some minor battles already it was the second world war which made large scale use of it - And now we are here with him defending the Pope saying atheists are like Hitler's Blitzkrieger.
edit: lets just say your presumption about "every act is to gain" is right... I can spin it just the same for christians "every act is just to get into heaven (which is "gain" as well) - which of course is an hilarious assumption I would not support but your argument is flawed.
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Atheists want to persecute religious groups like the nazis.
Let's persecute the atheists to show them they are wrong.
Jesus would be proud.
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On September 19 2010 18:12 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 18:01 cursor wrote:On September 19 2010 17:58 ShadeR wrote:
Who is more moral?
The man who helps his struggling neighbour because he believes that is what god wishes of him.
Or
The man who helps his struggling neighbour because he feels empathy for a fellow human being. I think that is a great point. Or, let alone, the one who acts out of Fear- which would obviously be even worse. Ah I didn't see that post. Both would feel empathy and it would be "good" for both to help. However deeds do not make one go to heaven and deeds aren't the basis for salvation in Protestantism. When you have faith in God you are able to go to heaven. Same for Islam/Judaism but Catholicism has its own thing. Protestants don't act out of fear. In fact fear is more close to revere usually. And if there is anything to fear it should be God since God has power over everything. The whole thing with Jesus was we couldn't save follow the Law so if we have faith we are redeemed (but most try to act right and you can't fake God out). Its about intentions and faith.
And as I said, good is subjective. In fact, even in Theism its subjective because whats was considered as good by a theist 2000 years ago would be derided as lunacy now. Your saying that the actions of the Atheist are not empirically good because we receive satisfactions from doing so. Well no fucking shit.
What you've successfully proven is that the Acts of the atheist cannot be good in a religious framework. Impressive sir, perhaps next you could prove how jews go to hell?
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On September 19 2010 18:13 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 18:06 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:
[quote]
Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people. Thanks for spewing out irrelevant facts. You still haven't answered what this has to do with Atheism lacking morality. Every act is to gain.
Yes, every act is to gain. Some people gain physical things. and some people like you like to gain warm fuzzy feelings by acting morally.
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On September 19 2010 18:13 blitzkrieger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2010 18:06 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 18:04 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:57 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:53 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:45 TOloseGT wrote:On September 19 2010 17:42 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:37 hifriend wrote:On September 19 2010 17:34 blitzkrieger wrote:On September 19 2010 17:26 TOloseGT wrote:
[quote]
Very enlightening, where's your proof of THIS? Thats what atheism is by definition. I don't know how to explain it any better. Evolution Goals: 1: Self Preserve 2: Reproduce (once reproduce 1 is null). If you want to explain "atheism by definition," how about looking up the definition of atheism rather than bringing up the natural mechanics of evolution. "Atheism is commonly defined as the position that there are no deities. It can also mean the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. A broader definition is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist." An atheist could reject the theory of evolution and still be an atheist. Ok then tell me where you get your morals and why these are to be followed. I get my morals from my atheist parents, who were taught to them from my atheist grandparents, who were taught to them from my atheist great-grandparents and so on back to the ages of Confucius. We cherish our loved ones and our neighbors because we have compassion and understanding. We don't murder because we have empathy Need I go on? You take care of your community and family because they benefit you. Think of the world around you, the food you eat, the clothes you wear. How much of it did you make? Are you capable of fully taking care of all your needs? No. You need other humans to help you each do a part in order to receive a greater benefit. You need farmers for food. Other to make clothes. Some to make computers so you can go on the internet. If this benefit did not exist or was less than the reward you would not do it. When you were a baby you would have died if your parents left you. In fact it takes almost 20 years for most children to be ready to live on their own. From birth you were extremely dependent on others. In turn you will take care of your children because you are paying the debt. The entirety of human society exists because it is beneficial to humans. Even acts such as self sacrifice are really to benefit the species. Google the social contract or watch any episode of House MD. WTF does this have to do with your previous question? Of course it benefits me. If they were to leave me as a baby I would be dead. Why would some animals take care of their children? It's the same basic instinct we've evolved from. In order to survive, we have to take care of our own. This doesn't mean we lack morality. We have the capacity to love, and it's been a blessing and a curse. Now you're just spouting random information. Scared of a little argument? Nope lots of animals eat their babies or leave eggs, ever heard of a spider? Yes in order to survive we take care of our own. For humans its called the Social Contract. We act in ways which are beneficial to use either for rewards or fear of punishment whether we are conscious of this or not. If it became more beneficial to kill babies (abortion) then we would. Thats why those apocalypse movies are so scary because when there is no reward (or less benefit vs cost) humans will turn on each other. Think of a junky trying to get a fix. They will punch out old people. Thanks for spewing out irrelevant facts. You still haven't answered what this has to do with Atheism lacking morality. Every act is to gain.
Wrong. Some act to gain, and some acts we make are to gain.
You're assuming that an act that results in a gain for you is bereft of morality? What are you smoking.
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When Moses came down from the mountain...
... he rode atop a mighty Sentry.
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I feel like I've been trolled so hard by so many people in this thread. I'm not gonna open this again.
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On September 19 2010 18:18 Evil_Monkey_ wrote:
I feel like I've been trolled so hard by so many people in this thread. I'm not gonna open this again.
Nah, we're just fortunate enough to have people with below average intelligence register and post.
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EPT
