Looks like my first post got nuked, but Blackjack quoted it on Page 11.
Anywho,
My problem isn't necessarily with Islam the religion it's with 2 principles that seem to run in islamic mosques and communities.
1. Suppression (violently) by factions within the religion/community is fairly common place (ex.saudi Arabia religious police) which takes someone with a different view even within the community and subjugates them and their views.
2. related to 1. The acceptance by the religious moderates, to be suppressed by a violent minority is seen as "part of the religion'.
If Islamics can't bring to heel the religious extremism within their own religion, then the only way to bring it to heel is all out, no holds barred war, which we the USA will not engage in, we have lost that collective will as a people. Therefore we are destined to lose the fight ..eventually.
I would personally feel much, much less paranoid about islam if their community moderates would bring to heel the extremists and establish a religion based on peace. Unfortunately either the extremes are so terribly violent or the moderates so cowed they have not yet done this.
So until they do, you will always be dealing with some extreme splinter faction that doesn't think Islam is being practiced correctly and is willing to torture, kill and subjugate their own people to prove their point. You can't negotiate with Islamic countries because of these factors.
As for the mosque at ground zero and how this relates. I could care less about the mosque as a building,but, we are talking about a 13 story monument to Islam. This WILL be interpreted by the extremists as acknowledgment of their dominance and only encourage more attacks by those factions within the religion. give a monster a cookie, and he'll want a glass of milk, so to speak.
To me make it a multi-denomination church to encourage everyone to come together as Americans. As it is right now; i'm against it's construction.
If we want to live with Islam, then we want to "support" its growth in the right direction. I can't say from what I know of the issue (extremely minimal.) If the project is by someone with moderated outlooks, then it's a positive development. If the project is by someone with extreme views, then it will be destructive and should be opposed. By doing this, the culture surrounding the religion will be nudged towards something we can deal with.
The general feeling I get from a lot of people is that we shouldn't try to live with Islam, and thus we give up our influence on the nature of Islam and its worship. Also by pushing its practitioners to the margins, it actually shifts the balance towards the extreme variety.
On August 25 2010 23:24 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: Man, this is appeasement at its best. Chamberlain would've made you secretary of state. As for this mosque, I couldn't care less. Let them build whatever and wherever they want, as long as it's applicable to the constitution. But I'm honestly scared about the future, because this seems the way most people in our generation tend to think. What if it would really come to the infamous clash? I guess you'd be still sitting there, cheering for every new mosque built and every new muslim entering the country. I wouldn't, because there are times you can't just do what pleases everybody the most.
I personally don't mind our generation understanding what the Bill of Rights entails. I support the building of mosques the same way as churches, temples, and other religious structures.
And if I look at the list of military confrontations, within the last 20 years it were almost exclusively Islamic countries involved, either attacking or being attacked. Whereas after WW2, there were also many conflicts, while there were almost no Islamic countries involved, or no countries with a siginificant Islamic population.
We are not on good terms with many Middle East countries, but that doesn't mean we have to be at conflict with Islam as a whole. Our conflicts in the Middle East don't justify hatred against an entire religion,
Now you may think, I'd like the idea of just erasing middle east, but I don't. I'd rather have it the way everbody could live in peace and in their own respective world. Stop trying to force democracy on people who can't and won't do shit with it, because they work differently.
I'd agree, but what does this have to do with the conversation?
But also stop trying to implement Islam in working democracies and treat it like it'd be equivalent to the Christian church, whether protestantic or catholic. All of them made adjustments and they accepted their place in society, where they don't have big influence anymore. Now go tell all those muslims who live in Europe or the US, and most of them live a pretty regular life there, 9-5 job, kids, no trouble. Tell them to stop practicing Islam because it's a backward way of life, and this is fact, I hope nobody tries arguing that lol.
How exactly is Islam more important than other religions in a working democracy? Allowing the Mosque to be built is a symbol of religious equality and not a religious takeover of the US.
At least here in Europe practicing Christians get strange looks and they're the vast minority of all people. I guess you in the US will also get there sooner or later. And they keep it to theirselves, they mostly don't even try to indoctrinate their children. One could say, Christianity is a choice in Europe, as it should be.
Could you really say that about Islam, whether it be in the US, Europe or even in the widely Islamic populated countries of the world?
So because Islam isn't a "choice" in the Middle East, therefore it should not be tolerated elsewhere?
On August 25 2010 23:50 Malmatik wrote: Looks like my first post got nuked, but Blackjack quoted it on Page 11.
Anywho,
My problem isn't necessarily with Islam the religion it's with 2 principles that seem to run in islamic mosques and communities.
1. Suppression (violently) by factions within the religion/community is fairly common place (ex.saudi Arabia religious police) which takes someone with a different view even within the community and subjugates them and their views.
2. related to 1. The acceptance by the religious moderates, to be suppressed by a violent minority is seen as "part of the religion'.
If Islamics can't bring to heel the religious extremism within their own religion, then the only way to bring it to heel is all out, no holds barred war, which we the USA will not engage in, we have lost that collective will as a people. Therefore we are destined to lose the fight ..eventually.
I would personally feel much, much less paranoid about islam if their community moderates would bring to heel the extremists and establish a religion based on peace. Unfortunately either the extremes are so terribly violent or the moderates so cowed they have not yet done this.
So until they do, you will always be dealing with some extreme splinter faction that doesn't think Islam is being practiced correctly and is willing to torture, kill and subjugate their own people to prove their point. You can't negotiate with Islamic countries because of these factors.
As for the mosque at ground zero and how this relates. I could care less about the mosque as a building,but, we are talking about a 13 story monument to Islam. This WILL be interpreted by the extremists as acknowledgment of their dominance and only encourage more attacks by those factions within the religion. give a monster a cookie, and he'll want a glass of milk, so to speak.
To me make it a multi-denomination church to encourage everyone to come together as Americans. As it is right now; i'm against it's construction.
Religious moderates can't convince religious extremist that easily. You think I can convince the westboro church that signs that say "US soldiers should die because they protect fags/gays" are wrong. Do you think they would listen to me just because I am also a Christian? Denying ground-zero mosque is much more dangerous for US then allowing it. Remember the majority of muslims are peaceful and want to practice their religion and by forcing them to move it makes them feel like they are less than regular Americans. It gives terrorist more points to say how Americans hate Muslims. What do you think an average Muslim from another country would think when they see these protest? Would you think that they think "yea good job, prevent those few extremist think that they won!" or do you think they would feel their religion was looked down upon and feel that the Talibans and Al Queda was right that US as a whole is against Islam in general. Do you think protesting against the mosque will bring more Muslim to the side of Islamic extremist or to the side of US? The answer is obvious. Also the main religious sect of the Muslim that wants to build this "mosque" is actually the moderate Muslims that were persecuted often by the extremist. Also this isn't much of a mosque in the first space. It is a cultural center with basketball courts and swimming pools. Only two floors is used for prayer.
On August 25 2010 23:50 Malmatik wrote: 2. related to 1. The acceptance by the religious moderates, to be suppressed by a violent minority is seen as "part of the religion'.
Accepting suppression? That's an entirely new concept to me, would you please expand on this idea? I'm sincerely interested.
On August 25 2010 23:50 Malmatik wrote: If Islamics can't bring to heel the religious extremism within their own religion, then the only way to bring it to heel is all out, no holds barred war, which we the USA will not engage in, we have lost that collective will as a people. Therefore we are destined to lose the fight ..eventually.
How is it the responsibility of moderate muslims to bring down those few terrorists who falsely claim to do what they do in the name of a religion? Beyond condemning and taking distance from these groups, I don't think realistically Islam as a religion is in any position to bring "extremism to its heels." Furthermore the middle east only accounts for approximately 20% of the muslim demography.
What really amazes me about all of this is how americans always take great pride in their constitution and the freedom that it represents. If such a basic principle of democracy such as religious freedom is compromised by the ignorant cries of the masses then it seems fairly pointless. Is freedom only meant for the large majority or something? Some people argue that the mosque shouldn't be built in order to prevent vandalism or outcries but think about what message that would send, essentially saying as long as you're loud and/or violent enough you'll have your way despite any human rights that might happen to stand in the way.
If this mosque isn't allowed to be built on the basis that one of the worlds largest religions is falsely associated with the acts of a few individuals then that sets an example that religious freedom can be compromised in any number of ways as long as enough people get adequately pissed off for whatever reason.
If the mosque, which is in fact a community center is built it's probably going to help informing people of the actual nature of Islam and what it is for the overwhelmingly large majority of its moderate practicians. If you've never paid a mosque a visit and you're feeling paranoid or uncertain then that's something to consider. They'll be happy to answer any questions from my experience.
I think a lot of you are missing the whole point of the argument, and it's pretty clear what it is. This is not religious persecution, this is not hate against all Muslims everywhere. This is respect to the victims of 9/11. THOUSANDS of people died that day in the name of the Allah. To have him praised in the same area...it is 100% disrespectful, regardless of the intentions of the mosque.
So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
On August 26 2010 01:58 Demarini wrote: I think a lot of you are missing the whole point of the argument, and it's pretty clear what it is. This is not religious persecution, this is not hate against all Muslims everywhere. This is respect to the victims of 9/11. THOUSANDS of people died that day in the name of the Allah. To have him praised in the same area...it is 100% disrespectful, regardless of the intentions of the mosque.
What about the Muslim victims of 9/11? And indeed, what about the Christian and Jewish victims, who also worship Allah (which is simply the Arabic word for the Judeo-Christian-Islamic God)?
Edit: To clarify, there were even Arabic-speaking Christians who worshipped "Allah" by that name before the advent of Islam. It would be racist to claim that Maronites are not Christians because they speak Arabic (besides, it's not like Jesus spoke English!).
On August 26 2010 01:58 Demarini wrote: I think a lot of you are missing the whole point of the argument, and it's pretty clear what it is. This is not religious persecution, this is not hate against all Muslims everywhere. This is respect to the victims of 9/11. THOUSANDS of people died that day in the name of the Allah. To have him praised in the same area...it is 100% disrespectful, regardless of the intentions of the mosque.
Just because they believe in one version of Islam still doesn't mean you can group them together. As we all know, a religion that existed for so long can have many interpretation to them and terrorists/extremist use that to their advantage. Some extremist Christians interpret the bible to allow them to bomb Jewish synagogues and bomb abortion clinics, should we stop building Church as well?
What you are doing is blaming Islam for the actions of a few. Remember the majority of Muslims condemned the action despite the fact that they believe in the same thing.
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
I wish people would stop making excuses for the fact that they're just bigots against Muslims. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with people opposing this if they just say "Hey, we don't want this mosque here because we don't like Muslims." I'm sure theres a group of people who wouldn't want to build a Korean restaraunt near Ground Zero, because Kimchi smells like shit (if you're not korean) and it's a disrespect to the 9/11 victims. Stop pretending that you don't care that its a mosque and the reason you're offended is because it's disrespectful to victims. Just accept the fact that the reason you don't want it built there is because you're bigots.
And ffs, if we BAN the mosque, THAT will be held up as a victory for terrorists. I can read the headlines now...."America Bans Muslim Mosque. Anti-American Sentiment Grows"
And seriously, MUSLIMS died in the 9/11 terrorist attack too. And we want to bar them from giving their own tribute to their victims? That'd be like a psychotic Christian Cult, who for some reason hates curry, bombing India, a bunch of Buddhist and Hindu people along with some Christians lose their lives, we want to build a fucking YMCA there, but they say no, because its disrespectful to the Indian people. Do you see how this makes zero sense?
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
I wish people would stop making excuses for the fact that they're just bigots against Muslims. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with people opposing this if they just say "Hey, we don't want this mosque here because we don't like Muslims." I'm sure theres a group of people who wouldn't want to build a Korean restaraunt near Ground Zero, because Kimchi smells like shit (if you're not korean) and it's a disrespect to the 9/11 victims. Stop pretending that you don't care that its a mosque and the reason you're offended is because it's disrespectful to victims. Just accept the fact that the reason you don't want it built there is because you're bigots.
And ffs, if we BAN the mosque, THAT will be held up as a victory for terrorists. I can read the headlines now...."America Bans Muslim Mosque. Anti-American Sentiment Grows"
I am not a bigot. If 60% of Americans are against the mosque, do you think that most Americans are bigots? Use some common sense, building a mosque next to ground zero is offensive. I don't understand how people don't see this.
Don't equate the building with a YMCA. It is an Islamic cultural center with a mosque. Your analogy does not make any sense, you're grasping for straws.
If the mosque is built, the terrorists will view this as a victory. This should be plain as day.
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
I wish people would stop making excuses for the fact that they're just bigots against Muslims. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with people opposing this if they just say "Hey, we don't want this mosque here because we don't like Muslims." I'm sure theres a group of people who wouldn't want to build a Korean restaraunt near Ground Zero, because Kimchi smells like shit (if you're not korean) and it's a disrespect to the 9/11 victims. Stop pretending that you don't care that its a mosque and the reason you're offended is because it's disrespectful to victims. Just accept the fact that the reason you don't want it built there is because you're bigots.
And ffs, if we BAN the mosque, THAT will be held up as a victory for terrorists. I can read the headlines now...."America Bans Muslim Mosque. Anti-American Sentiment Grows"
I am not a bigot. If 60% of Americans are against the mosque, do you think that most Americans are bigots? Use some common sense, building a mosque next to ground zero is offensive. I don't understand how people don't see this.
Wasn't that long ago that 60% of Americans were supporting segregating. Wasn't that long ago that 60% of Americans had slaves. For that matter wasn't that long ago that 90% of the world thought earth was flat and the sun revolved around Earth.
Facts aren't changed because the majority believes something different. Bigotry is still bigotry even if 99% of the people think it is justified. Infact bigotry is still bigotry even if it actually is justified.
Don't equate the building with a YMCA. It is an Islamic cultural center with a mosque. Your analogy does not make any sense.
Lol, do you know what "YMCA" stands for?
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
The constitution/bill of rights protects what we don't support. As much as about 95% of the country doesn't like what the Westboro Church is doing but it is their right and it is protected by the First Amend. Same as this just because 60% of America believe that this mosque shouldn't be built doesn't mean anything the Muslims got the rights to. People got the rights to protest as long as they don't slander or hurt others.
I really don't buy into the whole sensitivity bull. Go youtube what happened when a black guy walked through the crowd wearing one of the head gear that Muslims wear. He was called a coward. People confronted him. People called Allah a pig to provoke him and you know whats funny? He wasn't even Muslim. This isn't about Sensitivity, this is just pure hatred for Muslims that stemmed from misunderstanding of the religion and grouping the majority with the few. If people say they don't like Muslims then its fine. In our country, you are allowed to do that but don't bull about sensitivity.
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
I wish people would stop making excuses for the fact that they're just bigots against Muslims. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with people opposing this if they just say "Hey, we don't want this mosque here because we don't like Muslims." I'm sure theres a group of people who wouldn't want to build a Korean restaraunt near Ground Zero, because Kimchi smells like shit (if you're not korean) and it's a disrespect to the 9/11 victims. Stop pretending that you don't care that its a mosque and the reason you're offended is because it's disrespectful to victims. Just accept the fact that the reason you don't want it built there is because you're bigots.
And ffs, if we BAN the mosque, THAT will be held up as a victory for terrorists. I can read the headlines now...."America Bans Muslim Mosque. Anti-American Sentiment Grows"
I am not a bigot. If 60% of Americans are against the mosque, do you think that most Americans are bigots? Use some common sense, building a mosque next to ground zero is offensive. I don't understand how people don't see this.
Wasn't that long ago that 60% of Americans were supporting segregating. Wasn't that long ago that 60% of Americans had slaves. For that matter wasn't that long ago that 90% of the world thought earth was flat and the sun revolved around Earth.
Facts aren't changed because the majority believes something different. Bigotry is still bigotry even if 99% of the people think it is justified. Infact bigotry is still bigotry even if it actually is justified.
Why is opposition to the mosque bigotry? People are opposed to the mosque because of its location. Building it anywhere else is fine. The developers have made it a point to build it as close to ground zero as they can.
This project is not offensive in any way. What is offensive are the haters arguing against the project due to the religious affiliation.
The people who say this mosque/community center is offensive are idiots.
Seriously, fucking dumb as rocks.
It's a god damn miracle you morons manage to tie your shoes.
The people building the mosque/community center are not terrorists. They do not support terrorists. In fucking fact, look at what the project leader, Mr. Abdul Rauf, wrote in his book What's Right With Islam Is What's Right With America
The truth is that killing innocent people is always wrong — and no argument or excuse, no matter how deeply believed, can ever make it right. No religion on earth condones the killing of innocent people, no faith tradition tolerates the random killing of our brothers and sisters on this earth. ... Islamic law is clearly against terrorism, against any kind of deliberate killing of civilians or similar ‘collateral damage.’
On August 26 2010 02:06 funnybananaman wrote: So stupid lol.. there are so many bigger problems in america, why are people are wasting so much time and energy on this -_-
Comparing the people building the mosque who's whole purpose is to bridge faiths and stuff to foreign terrorists who just use islam as a front for their violent political agenda is totally retarded. There's nothing bad about what they're doing. Plus they've been in the neighborhood for years.
Terrorists want to isolate muslims from christians so they can make it black and white (christians vs muslims, us and THEM) because then more muslims will identify with them and they'll get more support. We should embrace regular islam in america so that way muslims aren't alienated and aren't given incentives to join the radical side. Bridging the gap between muslims and other americans is a blow to terrorism and thats what the mosque is trying to do.
Ron Paul put it well:
First of all, Ron Paul is a nutjob.
All recent polls show that a large majority of Americans, as well as New Yorkers, are against construction of the mosque. Why are the developers insistent upon constructing the mosque when it is only going to make people angry?
At this point, the mosque is not "bridging cultures." It's pissing people off and contributing to "Islamophobia." If is constructed, it will be seen as a symbol of victory by the jihadists and will be trumpeted throughout the Middle East.
The mosque is two blocks away from ground zero (it's 1 block from a subway stop, 2-3 min walk from ground zero). Doing some quick research, the closest mosque in the area is the Masjid Manhattan, which is 4 blocks away to the NW, that mosque has been in NYC for 40 years. I don't know of any other mosques closer than that one.
If the developers were able to purchase property and build a mosque 1 block away from Ground Zero, they would do so. The construction of the "cultural center" is extremely offensive to the families of 9/11.
The constitution/bill of rights protects what we don't support. As much as about 95% of the country doesn't like what the Westboro Church is doing but it is their right and it is protected by the First Amend. Same as this just because 60% of America believe that this mosque shouldn't be built doesn't mean anything the Muslims got the rights to. People got the rights to protest as long as they don't slander or hurt others.
I really don't buy into the whole sensitivity bull. Go youtube what happened when a black guy walked through the crowd wearing one of the head gear that Muslims wear. He was called a coward. People confronted him. People called Allah a pig to provoke him and you know whats funny? He wasn't even Muslim. This isn't about Sensitivity, this is just pure hatred for Muslims that stemmed from misunderstanding of the religion and grouping the majority with the few. If people say they don't like Muslims then its fine. In our country, you are allowed to do that but don't bull about sensitivity.
Polls show that most Americans are against the mosque, and understand that the developers have the right to build it. That doesn't mean that the mosque should be built. The mosque's proclaimed aim is to "bridge cultures" and create interfaith dialogue. It's only brought controversy and misery to New York. And yes it is about sensitivity.
On August 26 2010 03:07 Zealotdriver wrote: This project is not offensive in any way. What is offensive are the haters arguing against the project due to the religious affiliation.
The people who say this mosque/community center is offensive are idiots.
Seriously, fucking dumb as rocks.
It's a god damn miracle you morons manage to tie your shoes.
The people building the mosque/community center are not terrorists. They do not support terrorists. In fucking fact, look at what the project leader, Mr. Abdul Rauf, wrote in his book What's Right With Islam Is What's Right With America
The truth is that killing innocent people is always wrong — and no argument or excuse, no matter how deeply believed, can ever make it right. No religion on earth condones the killing of innocent people, no faith tradition tolerates the random killing of our brothers and sisters on this earth. ... Islamic law is clearly against terrorism, against any kind of deliberate killing of civilians or similar ‘collateral damage.’
^^This. They aren't choosing the site near Ground Zero as a "symbol of victory." It's a tribute to those that died in the terrorist attack. I don't see how you can find this offensive.
Polls show that most Americans are against the mosque, and understand that the developers have the right to build it. That doesn't mean that the mosque should be built. The mosque's proclaimed aim is to "bridge cultures" and create interfaith dialogue. It's only brought controversy and misery to New York. And yes it is about sensitivity.
Ok, this is the EXACT reason why you need something to bridge culture's holy shit. Guess what happened when they tore down the Berlin Wall. They bridged East and West Germany's cultures. It brought about controversy and misery in Germany. Wait what, my mind is blown.
EPT
