EPTViews on construction of Mosque at Ground Zero - Page 12
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Tippereth
United States252 Posts
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thesighter
United States347 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:04 Pandain wrote: Indias an exeception as the forming of that was directly correlated with Pakistan(as they split off). They are basically at war with each other and I would say are more government related terrorist groups than Religious "Holy War" ones. For Muslim Majority countries I would assume your bringing up Afghanistan and Iraq right? I think that's more inner-Islamic civil fighting (aka Shiite-Sunni conflicts) that have only been dramaticized ever since the US's invasion of each respective country. Instability+invasion=Not good. That doesn't count as an example. Phillipenes... don't know if they are actually that big of a Islamic threat lol. Really? In the middle of an Ocean? Sources please. Not saying your wrong, just like to see some sources. Sources also for Thailand And Russia. I can see thailand, Russia I plainly don't know enough. PM me just some links and I'll be very grateful. Russia: regular attacks currently in Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia. Islamic seperatists seek to establish an "Emirate". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_insurgency_in_the_North_Caucasus Big attack this year in Moscow Metro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Moscow_Metro_bombings Over 50,000 killed in Chechen wars. Thailand: Islamic minority Malay insurgency in southern provinces. 3000+ killed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency. Philippines: Abu Sayyaf. US special forces are involved, they're nearly wiped out now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Sayyaf India: I won't get into this, but let's just say that Indian Muslims and Hindus do not get along at all. Communal violence in India is horrific, because of the large population. Big conflicts in Muslim-majority countries currently: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, Nigeria. Many smaller conflicts in other Muslim countries, I can list 20+ more. | ||
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maellestrom
United States194 Posts
On August 25 2010 12:51 Karliath wrote: Indeed, "some of the folks...have been impacted by this." Some of the folks who died on 9/11 happen to be Muslims. They were hurt that they, and they are hurt now. This, again, can be related to Christian bombings. I am not arguing that the two attacks are on the same scale, but I don't think anyone would argue against putting a church in the area where a Christian bombing occurred. Instead, they'd probably talk about using the church to educate the people and spread peace and love for God. Agreed, our constitution allows religious freedom. Not all Muslims are terrorists, not all Christians are terrorists, there is no reason to shut this project down. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
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Uriel_SVK
Slovakia427 Posts
Christianity is responsible for many more deaths than Islam. What about holocaust, slavery, crusades or inqusition? So many deaths should mean that all christians are evil. http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_index.htm | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:22 thesighter wrote: Russia: regular attacks currently in Chechnya, Dagestan, Ingushetia. Islamic seperatists seek to establish an "Emirate". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_insurgency_in_the_North_Caucasus Big attack this year in Moscow Metro: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Moscow_Metro_bombings Over 50,000 killed in Chechen wars. Thailand: Islamic minority Malay insurgency in southern provinces. 3000+ killed, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency. Philippines: Abu Sayyaf. US special forces are involved, they're nearly wiped out now. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Sayyaf India: I won't get into this, but let's just say that Indian Muslims and Hindus do not get along at all. Communal violence in India is horrific, because of the large population. Big conflicts in Muslim-majority countries currently: Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Sudan, Nigeria. Many smaller conflicts in other Muslim countries, I can list 20+ more. Russia: Again theres a difference between Islamic Militants and Islamic Extremist terrorist groups. Islamic Militants can merely mean they're an Islamic seperatist group. THey're islamic beliefs have very little to do with what they're fighting for. For example, Russia with the Chechen wars. That's specifically a Seperatist movement and unrelated to Islam as a whole. Philipenes: Again seems like its a seperatist movement rather than an extremist movement. If you can show that its more Jihad than political, correct me. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, all have their own political/economic troubles and of course insurgency groups are going to spring from there. Again, alot of the "terrorist groups" your mentioning are more politically formed than just religious. Al quaeda would be an example of a religious group, Abu Sayyaf would not(it seems to me, correct me of course). For thailand, the link seems to be broken. I'm awfully sorry for asking you again but could you fix it lol n.n. It's been fun and informative arguing and I'm having awful fun. I'm sorry if it's too troublesome. I'm just tired and might just go to bed right now n.n. Heh.... | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:34 Uriel_SVK wrote: Stop building churches too!!! Christianity is responsible for many more deaths than Islam. What about holocaust, slavery, crusades or inqusition? So many deaths should mean that all christians are evil. http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_index.htm Argh! Darn those Christians causing the Holocaust! Those nazis were just the scapegoat! n.n | ||
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thesighter
United States347 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:35 Pandain wrote: Russia: Again theres a difference between Islamic Militants and Islamic Extremist terrorist groups. Islamic Militants can merely mean they're an Islamic seperatist group. THey're islamic beliefs have very little to do with what they're fighting for. For example, Russia with the Chechen wars. That's specifically a Seperatist movement and unrelated to Islam as a whole. Philipenes: Again seems like its a seperatist movement rather than an extremist movement. If you can show that its more Jihad than political, correct me. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, all have their own political/economic troubles and of course insurgency groups are going to spring from there. Again, alot of the "terrorist groups" your mentioning are more politically formed than just religious. Al quaeda would be an example of a religious group, Abu Sayyaf would not(it seems to me, correct me of course). For thailand, the link seems to be broken. I'm awfully sorry for asking you again but could you fix it lol n.n. It's been fun and informative arguing and I'm having awful fun. I'm sorry if it's too troublesome. I'm just tired and might just go to bed right now n.n. Heh.... "islamic beliefs have very little to do with what they're fighting for. For example, Russia with the Chechen wars. That's specifically a Seperatist movement and unrelated to Islam as a whole." - not true anymore. The current Russian separatist groups seek to establish "Emirates" ruled under Sharia law. It is about establishing an Islamic state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus_Emirate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Thailand_insurgency - Thailand link "Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Sudan, Nigeria, all have their own political/economic troubles and of course insurgency groups are going to spring from there." - most of the separatists insurgency groups in those countries are fighting for Islamic states. I'm too tired to link to all of these, use google/wikipedia. | ||
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neohero9
United States595 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:36 Pandain wrote: Argh! Darn those Christians causing the Holocaust! Those nazis were just the scapegoat! n.n Not even looking at the link, I am almost sure that it either cites the Catholic church's cooperation with Nazi Germany, the suspicion that Hitler himself was a Christian of some stripe, or the WWII-era death camps set up in Croatia that were run by officials who were Catholic. | ||
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Uriel_SVK
Slovakia427 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:36 Pandain wrote: Argh! Darn those Christians causing the Holocaust! Those nazis were just the scapegoat! n.n "Anyone who looks through Nazi propaganda of the time will quickly notice that religious - which is to say Christian - imagery appears very often. It's not uncommon to see Jews draining blood from Christians and reports of plans to kill off the German race." Nazis were actually christians | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:34 Uriel_SVK wrote: Stop building churches too!!! Christianity is responsible for many more deaths than Islam. What about holocaust, slavery, crusades or inqusition? So many deaths should mean that all christians are evil. http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_index.htm "Stop building churches too!!!" What does "too" mean since nobody is even saying stop building mosques? | ||
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jonusb2
3 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:45 Uriel_SVK wrote: "Anyone who looks through Nazi propaganda of the time will quickly notice that religious - which is to say Christian - imagery appears very often. It's not uncommon to see Jews draining blood from Christians and reports of plans to kill off the German race." Nazis were actually christians Nazi's(in theory) actually were against Christinaity and actually Hitler and Goebbels tried to start their own "Sun" Based religion. We can continue this in PM land, to stay out of thread, so you can do that if you want. | ||
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Marl
United States694 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:34 Uriel_SVK wrote: Stop building churches too!!! Christianity is responsible for many more deaths than Islam. What about holocaust, slavery, crusades or inqusition? So many deaths should mean that all christians are evil. http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/christian/blfaq_viol_index.htm Is religion the problem or the people who hold power within a religion? If it weren't for religious leaders who promote prejudice than I believe religion would be as peaceful as anything. However, there would then exist another means by which those in power could promote prejudice to the masses. As long as we remain human I believe prejudice will always be with us and will lead to more crusades/holocausts/9-11s. No one who becomes Muslim does so with the intent to suicide bomb and kill hundreds of people. They do so because they are convinced by propaganda and those who have power over them to do it. Also, how much better are we Americans than the terrorists if we allow our leaders to convince us to discriminate against Muslims, Christians, or other groups? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:47 jonusb2 wrote: sadness omg.... *loses his innocence* edit that stuff man | ||
Manifesto7
Osaka27178 Posts
On August 25 2010 13:48 Pandain wrote: omg.... *loses his innocence* edit that stuff man Lol, the best part of that was the url, sorry for those who missed it. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
jonusb2 August 25 2010 13:47. Posts 3 PM Profile Quote # --- Nuked --- I hope this isn't one of those taboo avatar topics we can't talk about, but 1. Did his post get "nuked" by an admin, and his avatar changed? 2. Did he write "nuked" knowing that he would get the avatar? 3. Something else? Oddly enough, It always seems to happen to people with less than 5 posts. It was the first post with someone else. Also, there's the "locked" avatar too. Anyways. I missed the link  | ||
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Williowa
129 Posts
This is not a matter of discrimination because legally no one is trying to stop the mosque in a court room or via congress or executive order. If people talk about not liking it because of what it means to them, or the questions of the people building it specifically being questionable that is their right. You all love to blab on TL, but you're blabbing against other people blabbing, good work. | ||
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Karliath
United States2214 Posts
On August 25 2010 14:05 Williowa wrote: I know no one reads these after they post what they say, but... This is not a matter of discrimination because legally no one is trying to stop the mosque in a court room or via congress or executive order. If people talk about not liking it because of what it means to them, or the questions of the people building it specifically being questionable that is their right. You all love to blab on TL, but you're blabbing against other people blabbing, good work. Then what are you doing? | ||
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NovemberZerg
United States58 Posts
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