EPTThe Big Programming Thread - Page 713
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Thread Rules 1. This is not a "do my homework for me" thread. If you have specific questions, ask, but don't post an assignment or homework problem and expect an exact solution. 2. No recruiting for your cockamamie projects (you won't replace facebook with 3 dudes you found on the internet and $20) 3. If you can't articulate why a language is bad, don't start slinging shit about it. Just remember that nothing is worse than making CSS IE6 compatible. 4. Use [code] tags to format code blocks. | ||
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Wrath
3174 Posts
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Wrath
3174 Posts
At least if I get this front-end position, I can practice on some coding that could open the gate for more "deeper" coding jobs. My ultimate dream is becoming c++ developer working on game-engine design / developing. But right now, this is an impossible dream, so I have to do with what I have. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On March 26 2016 20:22 FFGenerations wrote: just dropping in to say i just left my junior programming job after 6 months (after giving 6 weeks notice) i saved up some money (4500 lol) and going to take a year to learn to draw and try to become an artist instead just thought you'd like to kno since you saw me pass my uni degree last year (barely) and go on from there programming was pretty much what i expected - hard, relentless, lonely 9 hour days with a lot of feeling like shit for being incompetent (in my eyes), a lack of traditional skills progression due to the nature of my particular job and not being smart enough to make larger leaps in progression/understanding and also not having any real interest in it, and ultimately feeling like i was wasting my life , just a human machine that might aswell not even exist i made a good friend (the guy who sat next to me for 6 months) and everyone had really kind words for me maybe i will use my (limited) skills in the future that i learnt in the job to combine with my art. i mean the option is there (i worked with flash/as) just i am shit at it and not smart enough and hate it so fuck. lol the dream now is to get good enough at drawing then digital art and maybe make my own visual novel game for some sort of commercial release. that would be the dream  i start monday . and got ~10+ months to succeed (else its back to applying for programming jobs or my mom will go mad lol)also im looking for a cheap place to live FYI GL with everything! | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17596 Posts
On March 27 2016 02:05 FFGenerations wrote: i think the appeal (to me) of front end is you can get really decent and go freelance, right? and just do whatever you like , you dont need to rely on anyone (learn some graphics too?) That depends. While it's true that most often than not you're not bound to specific underlying back-end language etc. there's still a matter of your contract and what you'll be responsible for. For example, my contract forbids me from working for my contract holder's competition or dealing directly with their clients. This cuts down freelance opportunities by a pretty great margin. Then, for front-end it depends on what will your actual role be: a) simply creating the design b) cutting said design and turning it into actual html/css/js c) implementing this content in the templates (often using some templating engine). There are many levels to front-end work. | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17596 Posts
On March 27 2016 03:07 FFGenerations wrote: is offering websites to small business a thing? like you cold call businesses with shit websites and offer to make something for them with a portfolio . coz that's what i thought people would like to do. but maybe theres not much actual money in it (considering how much you guys get paid working higher brow jobs) It's a risky proposition. While it might seem nice to offer website upgrades you then would fall into the trap of constantly changing client demands, having to re-negotiate deadlines all the time and there's also the question of maintaining the website after you made it (since most businesses want to fix/change their websites over time it's easier for them to simply pay the company that did it in the first place a monthly fee where they get x hours of work on the website included). | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
On March 27 2016 03:07 FFGenerations wrote: is offering websites to small business a thing? like you cold call businesses with shit websites and offer to make something for them with a portfolio . coz that's what i thought people would like to do. but maybe theres not much actual money in it (considering how much you guys get paid working higher brow jobs) I don't know about other countries but over here we get a lot of over-seas people cold-calling businesses with bad websites, generally from India. Most people here prefer a local company though, and you can make reasonable money doing cheap websites for small companies. If you get an efficient system with all your templates, CMS, plugins and hosting sorted then you can set them up very quickly, charge a grand or two, and then charge maintenance and hosting over time. The only problem with it is that it's low barrier to entry so heaps of other people do it too. You basically have to do it cheaper than anyone else or be really good at selling yourself. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
I know that a lot of you guys are more like, "as long as I can do meaningful programming and learn at my job, I'm cool", but I don't think that's something that feels right for me. Maybe I just haven't applied/interviewed/found any programming jobs/companies that combine the sort of "impactful work" with a non-disgusting mentality yet, but they seem so hard to find that I feel like I'd rather figure something else to do with my life instead. Not that I actually have a real plan unlike FF going into art. It'd be nice to find something that combined stuff like solar energy or pollution reduction or medicinal scanning with a company with the mentality of DHH (creator of Ruby on Rails) who is satisfied with his company's position and doesn't feel like they need to "aggressively scale and target more verticals to make more money". I had an offer from Microsoft to work on like, the Mail and Calendar apps, and it just felt... not like something that had any point (plus it was in Seattle). I think I've been kinda drifting away from just "cool" stuff and I want to do something that actually has real world meaning, not "just some technology". Like i could work on Windows desktop again or kernel, or at some payments company, or at Uber, or Facebook, but like... it just doesn't feel meaningful, or maybe it feels fake? I think it'd be nice if I joined an NGO or some volunteer organization somewhere instead (engineers without borders?) too. idk how that'd work out though. I'm taking a half year off to figure things out myself and clear my mind, but what are your thoughts? | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
it sure did run through my head that if i was working for a charity organisation (or something) i would have some sort of meaningful existence i think when people are well-exposed to the world and with the right temperament they develop values that go beyond the accumulation of stuff . "helping people" and whatnot is a big thing in a lot of anime so i probably got it from there . also my mom is pretty compassionate and perceptive. and i went through a lot of suffering myself which must give an altered perspective towards what is actually valuable in the world (hint its not automatic windscreen wipers). plus i'm single , i can imagine people are less selfless when they have intimates involved | ||
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Birdie
New Zealand4438 Posts
As for me, I like making tools and don't have any issue with the purpose of my life so it's not something I have had to worry about yet, but I can understand that tool-making can feel very pointless compared to making a difference in peoples' lives outside of just another product. | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
Also, there's nothing wrong with Seattle (I'm in Seattle). It doesn't actually rain that much (total volume comparable to Midwest US), you can pop vitamin D pills for the lack of sun. It never really gets below 40F (maybe a couple days a year), and it never really gets above like 80-85F (usually). NO MOSQUITOES HOLY SHIT. But if you're in Vancouver or something right now I could see why you wouldn't want to move down here. As an aside, most large reasearch uni will employ some software people who just build stuff that postdocs, professors, etc need. Not many though positions though, because it's generally cheaper for them to get | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
Since some of you guys seemed to know C# well, do you have some good resources, videos, to get some basics ? Or maybe you could tell me the important things that an interviewer may ask? x) Thanks. On the occasion, I tried a bit Visual Studio Code and, while it doesn't have the plugin community of Atom yet, damn it's great out of the box ! It includes full git support (hello atom?), a debugger, the interface is a bit opinionated but I like some of the ideas, we can see Microsoft put thoughts into this. And the most important point : performance. To those who thought Electron is slow...It's not Sublime fast but I'm really impressed so far, Atom has a long way to go. | ||
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Khalum
Austria831 Posts
On March 27 2016 12:08 Blisse wrote: tbh, also thinking about switching out of software, a bit different from FF since I believe I have the means to handle the technical depth (lucky to have a strong education), but I think I'm just a bit disgusted by the Silicon Valley-esque start-up culture. I can't pinpoint it exactly but there's so much "gotta get bigger" or "gotta be important" mentality from so many companies, and the work feels so meaningless in comparison to like, doing humanitarian work. I know that a lot of you guys are more like, "as long as I can do meaningful programming and learn at my job, I'm cool", but I don't think that's something that feels right for me. Maybe I just haven't applied/interviewed/found any programming jobs/companies that combine the sort of "impactful work" with a non-disgusting mentality yet, but they seem so hard to find that I feel like I'd rather figure something else to do with my life instead. [..] Amazing, I've been in a similar situation since about half a year ago. And I've not managed to change anything in my life so far since coding is the only thing I'm really good at and the company I work for is actually pretty nice. But it feels like I'm solving problems that don't really matter when I'm considering my inner compass. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On March 27 2016 13:10 FFGenerations wrote: i worked for automobile industry , pointless is pretty much the name of the game . look i made this drunk post yesterday about it lol clicky it sure did run through my head that if i was working for a charity organisation (or something) i would have some sort of meaningful existence i think when people are well-exposed to the world and with the right temperament they develop values that go beyond the accumulation of stuff . "helping people" and whatnot is a big thing in a lot of anime so i probably got it from there . also my mom is pretty compassionate and perceptive. and i went through a lot of suffering myself which must give an altered perspective towards what is actually valuable in the world (hint its not automatic windscreen wipers). plus i'm single , i can imagine people are less selfless when they have intimates involved My friend worked on some automotive self-driving things as well and felt like it was cool, but the timelines for the industry are essentially in terms of decades, which is a pain for his career. Plus apparently the industry is apparently very poorly structured. Good luck with finding something else that works for you! I think everyone wants something different from their jobs, so hopefully you find something that makes sense for you On March 27 2016 15:13 Birdie wrote: Blisse, while I don't have any experience in the matter it could be really interesting to do some kind of scientific programming for the scientific research institutes around that study various matters. Stuff like the Harry Readme file suggests that climatology for one is in need of better programmers, and I daresay most scientific establishments could do with better programmers. It's not necessarily humanitarian but maybe will help you feel like you're doing something more useful than just another tool. As for me, I like making tools and don't have any issue with the purpose of my life so it's not something I have had to worry about yet, but I can understand that tool-making can feel very pointless compared to making a difference in peoples' lives outside of just another product. Never read the Harry Readme thing, but I googled it and it sounds messed up. It reminded me of this article though http://worrydream.com/ClimateChange/, which talks a lot about things and companies that are trying to do things. I'll dig in a lot deeper when I start re-applying to places. I think I just don't want to spend my time just making another "app". On March 27 2016 16:56 phar wrote: At the end of the day, it's a job that pays the bills. And a software job at Microsoft is pretty quickly going to be netting you like $250k+ / yr if you do it right. I prefer to do work at work, and then come home and play video games :D As long as the technical problems are interesting at work, it's enough to keep me engaged. But then, I work on enterprise ad software, so maybe I'm just having a skewed view here. Also, there's nothing wrong with Seattle (I'm in Seattle). It doesn't actually rain that much (total volume comparable to Midwest US), you can pop vitamin D pills for the lack of sun. It never really gets below 40F (maybe a couple days a year), and it never really gets above like 80-85F (usually). NO MOSQUITOES HOLY SHIT. But if you're in Vancouver or something right now I could see why you wouldn't want to move down here. As an aside, most large reasearch uni will employ some software people who just build stuff that postdocs, professors, etc need. Not many though positions though, because it's generally cheaper for them to get I liked Seattle too, the weather was humid but still bearable (maybe because I had a car...), and the nature is amazing. The main reason is really that no one I know will be there, and there doesn't seem to be enough for me to balance that lack. Plus I wouldn't want the job. I also think that's close to the mentality that turns me off, if that makes sense. Like, in our industry/with our peoples/in this culture there's this super hyper focus on money and paying the bills in that it's not rational to not take the "safe" route and make bank. That's what a lot of people suggest to me, take the safe route and work for 2 years while I figure out other things. I don't blame people for going for the money because that's really the dream for a lot of people who never lived like that, but I grew up with this mix of my parents trying to hide the fact that we're poor combined with my parents trying to scavenge every cent they could, that the whole hyper focus on money thing really turns me off. I'm still not as responsible with money as I could be, but doing the opposite would be awful to me. Like the minimum bar for employment for me should be that I get paid something respectable/industry-competitive. The money factors into it about that far (unless you're offering me like 500k/1year out of the gate....) Beyond that I feel that I should be finding a team that isn't self-absorbed, working on projects that fulfill me better, or at the very least more than just "another piece of software like Facebook/Uber/Google/Mail". Also feels a bit disingenuous for me to work for the sake of making a living and using that living to do something else. I think I want some alignment in my career with my personal outlook. No offense meant to anyone, I think this is just my own ideology. Sorry if I've rambled :p I think my views will change after 5-10 years of doing things, but at this moment I think like this and was hoping it sounds normal because I've met a lot of resistance to the idea (like my family and some friends think I should just go somewhere with high learning potential and then find a more relevant career after exhausting the learning). | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18179 Posts
Either way, if you're fed up with building apps, have a look at industrial research departments (in addition to universities). | ||
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Shield
Bulgaria4824 Posts
On March 26 2016 20:22 FFGenerations wrote: just dropping in to say i just left my junior programming job after 6 months (after giving 6 weeks notice) i saved up some money (4500 lol) and going to take a year to learn to draw and try to become an artist instead just thought you'd like to kno since you saw me pass my uni degree last year (barely) and go on from there programming was pretty much what i expected - hard, relentless, lonely 9 hour days with a lot of feeling like shit for being incompetent (in my eyes), a lack of traditional skills progression due to the nature of my particular job and not being smart enough to make larger leaps in progression/understanding and also not having any real interest in it, and ultimately feeling like i was wasting my life , just a human machine that might aswell not even exist i made a good friend (the guy who sat next to me for 6 months) and everyone had really kind words for me maybe i will use my (limited) skills in the future that i learnt in the job to combine with my art. i mean the option is there (i worked with flash/as) just i am shit at it and not smart enough and hate it so fuck. lol the dream now is to get good enough at drawing then digital art and maybe make my own visual novel game for some sort of commercial release. that would be the dream i start monday . and got ~10+ months to succeed (else its back to applying for programming jobs or my mom will go mad lol)also im looking for a cheap place to live FYI If it's not a secret, how much did you earn? What languages did you use? And did you live at your parents' house to save 4500 or did you rent a property? | ||
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FFGenerations
7088 Posts
i lived in a tiny room in a cheap area with no bills for 325/month (tho im pretty sure he fucked off with most of my deposit money) then somehow eventually found a big room in an expensive area close to work for 370 (no idea how i found such cheap room here , normal rate is 450 for a room in a house afaik) i didn't live too frugally, buying sandwiches or bits and bobs (like random meat and shit) at the superstore for lunch most days instead of homemade meals when my car broke i lost a ridiculous amount of money being fucked around by people pretending to fix it for 3-4 WEEKS, went completely on tilt and spent a crazy amount on taxis and a hire car in the meantime, which i damaged and had to pay some for (then blocked them) , and also started buying expensive takeaways every week which only got worse as time went on so that was chucking 2000-3000 down the garbage can for no reason (my car cost like 1400 to begin with) and maybe more because i went on tilt from then on (like i was on the verge of tears every day and couldn't even speak without choking up and almost breaking down) i bought a guitar for 450 and a ton of expensive anime figures for like .. several 100s gym subscriptions like 40/month bunch of random low range stuff like new webcam (which is shit) for 50 , audio interface for 50 or whatever i dont buy clothes (i have 1 pair of jeans and wear £3 tshirts) i dont go out anywhere i had a phone subscription for like 15/month for several months (no one calls me, whats the point?) and i need to pay for car fuel (not very much probably) so yeah if i hadn't gone fucking crazy buying takeaways several times a week and the taxis and hire car and damaging the hire car and fixing my own car in 4 different garages (fuck them) then i would have been able to save a fuck lot more than , what, 750/month i was using flash but i recommend avoiding it even tho its pretty coo , you can go with html5 dev instead | ||
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phar
United States1080 Posts
On March 28 2016 04:26 Blisse wrote: I liked Seattle too, the weather was humid but still bearable (maybe because I had a car...), and the nature is amazing. The main reason is really that no one I know will be there, and there doesn't seem to be enough for me to balance that lack. Plus I wouldn't want the job. Ha I guess humidity is a relative thing then. Compared to where I'm coming from, Seattle is not humid at all. Mornings are humid foggy, but it's like 50-60% average humidity in the afternoons. And since it's never really that hot, the humidity doesn't matter too much. Try Houston sometime haha. average like 95F and 90% humidity. Seattle has somewhat humid winters, but b/c it's not that warm in the winter the high relative humidity doesn't matter. Summer humidity is like 50%, which is not bad. | ||
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