EPTOn April 12 2010 04:08 baqarah wrote:
I think he meant we, Poles, consider Soviet Russia as mix of different countries. We know that some countries like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia were incorporated by force and we always supported other post-soviet states in their fight to become less dependent from Russia.
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2010 02:32 taichou wrote:
Dont put us in same category in Soviet Russia...
On April 11 2010 20:03 Green_Ranger wrote:
Someone already wrote it here; that the accident probably happened because Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land (which happened before). The media dont follow that lead at all, because they are making a hero out of him, despite the fact that there are lots of people who didnt like him before.
Oh well, perfect example where the humanity is going.
Russia and Poland had very hard relations for ages; as most neighbor countries.
Poland was the only country to ever conquer Moscow, but lost it some time later.
You need to understand that what we understand as Soviet Russia is not exactly one country, but a mix of different countries like Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania and so on.
The relations are very complex, because they are not really based on facts, more like politics.
During WW2, Ukrainian nationalists (which arent really equal to Russians) would murder lots of Polish people in many cruel ways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
When Soviet Russia occupied Ukraine, Red Army clashed with UPA too.
70 years later the Polish politicians tried to influence Ukraine and supported the 'orange revolution' there. The problem is that this revolution failed and people like Kaczynski burned all the bridges to other parties active in Ukraine. Why did they burn the bridges? Because Ukraine is a divided country, on the west part live Ukrainians, on the east - Russians. Russia wants the country as their own place of influence. Kaczynski would consider everything Russian evil (which is true to some degree, they just act for themselves; IMO USA does the same, but has better marketing), and had pretty bad relations with Russia in general.
Of course the Russians have never admitted/apologized for the Katyn massacre*.
You have to understand, that Russia is a 'strange' country - politics affect the way business works there e.g. Kaczynski says that Russians should admit to the Katyn massacre - Russians impose problems with imports from Poland, telling that additional medical exams are needed etc.
Thus Kaczynski's actions werent really liked here; few companies lost millions of zlotys just due to bad mouth of the president - and weird ways the Russian administration works.
Personally I have no damn idea why the Russians wont apologize for Katyn; I mean, it was done by Stalin, who also starved millions of Ukrainins etc. I also dont understand why the governments are kicking each others ankles, instead of focusing on doing business. Unfortunately doing business is not that easy either, because Poland (just like most of Eu), buys natural resources (mainly gas) from Russia - and Russians usually try to pressure other countries by threatening to turn it off.
Kaczynski stood behind countries like Georgia, who wanted to come out of Russians influence - which of course angered the Russians.
The average Polish person, is sorta brainwashed by the media; who general speak of Russians in bad way. As far as I know, the same happens in Russian, but to even higher degree. In addition, after all, Russians were the occupants of the country for nearly 50 years and still there are lots of cases that are not solved (problems with export of goods; problems with import of gas; Katyn).
*speaking of apologizing; when Germany invaded the Czechs; Poland occupied a small part of it too - Kaczynski apologized for that; this was so damn random, that the Czech ambassador didnt know what to say lol; actually this was one of the good parts of his presidency
Someone already wrote it here; that the accident probably happened because Kaczynski ordered the pilot to land (which happened before). The media dont follow that lead at all, because they are making a hero out of him, despite the fact that there are lots of people who didnt like him before.
Oh well, perfect example where the humanity is going.
On April 11 2010 13:41 Exteray wrote:
Terrible terrible tragedy )=
Can someone explain the relationship between Russia and Poland to me though?
Terrible terrible tragedy )=
Can someone explain the relationship between Russia and Poland to me though?
Russia and Poland had very hard relations for ages; as most neighbor countries.
Poland was the only country to ever conquer Moscow, but lost it some time later.
You need to understand that what we understand as Soviet Russia is not exactly one country, but a mix of different countries like Belarus, Ukraine, Lithuania and so on.
The relations are very complex, because they are not really based on facts, more like politics.
During WW2, Ukrainian nationalists (which arent really equal to Russians) would murder lots of Polish people in many cruel ways http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
When Soviet Russia occupied Ukraine, Red Army clashed with UPA too.
70 years later the Polish politicians tried to influence Ukraine and supported the 'orange revolution' there. The problem is that this revolution failed and people like Kaczynski burned all the bridges to other parties active in Ukraine. Why did they burn the bridges? Because Ukraine is a divided country, on the west part live Ukrainians, on the east - Russians. Russia wants the country as their own place of influence. Kaczynski would consider everything Russian evil (which is true to some degree, they just act for themselves; IMO USA does the same, but has better marketing), and had pretty bad relations with Russia in general.
Of course the Russians have never admitted/apologized for the Katyn massacre*.
You have to understand, that Russia is a 'strange' country - politics affect the way business works there e.g. Kaczynski says that Russians should admit to the Katyn massacre - Russians impose problems with imports from Poland, telling that additional medical exams are needed etc.
Thus Kaczynski's actions werent really liked here; few companies lost millions of zlotys just due to bad mouth of the president - and weird ways the Russian administration works.
Personally I have no damn idea why the Russians wont apologize for Katyn; I mean, it was done by Stalin, who also starved millions of Ukrainins etc. I also dont understand why the governments are kicking each others ankles, instead of focusing on doing business. Unfortunately doing business is not that easy either, because Poland (just like most of Eu), buys natural resources (mainly gas) from Russia - and Russians usually try to pressure other countries by threatening to turn it off.
Kaczynski stood behind countries like Georgia, who wanted to come out of Russians influence - which of course angered the Russians.
The average Polish person, is sorta brainwashed by the media; who general speak of Russians in bad way. As far as I know, the same happens in Russian, but to even higher degree. In addition, after all, Russians were the occupants of the country for nearly 50 years and still there are lots of cases that are not solved (problems with export of goods; problems with import of gas; Katyn).
*speaking of apologizing; when Germany invaded the Czechs; Poland occupied a small part of it too - Kaczynski apologized for that; this was so damn random, that the Czech ambassador didnt know what to say lol; actually this was one of the good parts of his presidency
Dont put us in same category in Soviet Russia...
I think he meant we, Poles, consider Soviet Russia as mix of different countries. We know that some countries like Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia were incorporated by force and we always supported other post-soviet states in their fight to become less dependent from Russia.
if thats the case than its ok, im also a Lithuanian Pole, so i kinda share the loss, and a lot of Poles/Lithuanians are bringing flowers and candles to Polish ambassy
