You know what this world needs?

A goddamn revolution.
That's right, look at the people who lived decades and hundreds of years ago.
They had ideals/were oppressed/had a crappy government ==> revolution and fuck shit up. Power to the people but the people have no courage to use that power.

I think this quote is more true than ever.

ProdT

United States170 Posts

March 22 2010 19:40 GMT

#22

On March 23 2010 04:35 DwmC_Foefen wrote:
You know what this world needs?

A goddamn revolution.
That's right, look at the people who lived decades and hundreds of years ago.
They had ideals/were oppressed/had a crappy government ==> revolution and fuck shit up. Power to the people but the people have no courage to use that power.

I think this quote is more true than ever.

Lets assume a revolution happened. Where do you think we would end up? The same damn situation we are in now. As long as governments are run by humans it will never be perfect. Maybe we should just keep starting revolutions until we get it right huh?

NonY

8748 Posts

March 22 2010 19:48 GMT

#23

Inequalities are tolerable as long as everyone's position is improving on an absolute scale. Improving at a slower rate than someone else is still improving. It seems the argument in the OP is based on demonstrating an inequality in power and resources and a trend of growth in that inequality but those facts aren't sufficient to conclude that unfairness and injustice have occurred.

RoyW

Ireland270 Posts

March 22 2010 21:28 GMT

#24

On March 23 2010 04:48 Liquid`NonY wrote:
Inequalities are tolerable as long as everyone's position is improving on an absolute scale. Improving at a slower rate than someone else is still improving. It seems the argument in the OP is based on demonstrating an inequality in power and resources and a trend of growth in that inequality but those facts aren't sufficient to conclude that unfairness and injustice have occurred.

Unfairness, yes, 'injustice' is debatable. But when you look at the continually growing gap between the rich and poor in America, the declining class mobility, and the continual lowering of effective taxes for the richest in your country, then yes you can most definitely assert that the American Dream is, for the vast majority, a tool people use to delude themselves while they are getting shafted.

NonY

8748 Posts

March 22 2010 21:52 GMT

#25

You think that the mere presence of inequality and/or growing inequality could possibly prove that injustice has occurred?

I just wrote something attempting to defend the American Dream but I deleted it because it's not really defensible. I'd argue that picking on how unrealistic the American Dream is isn't proving anything because it never was and never will be realistic. But if we're not going to talk about extremes, like achieving the American Dream means every potentiality in a person goes completely unhindered by the system, then I'll throw out my opinion that I'm not gonna try to support or defend: Most people who don't get what they want should rightly place more blame on themselves and the people around them who have about the same amount of power as them rather than blaming the people in power.

decafchicken

United States20026 Posts

March 22 2010 21:54 GMT

#26

On March 23 2010 03:54 itzme_petey wrote:

Show nested quote +

2006 5.15
2007 5.85
2008 6.55
2009 7.25

A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?

@Newborn, yea thats the idea of inflation. I agree the government has a role to control inflation. We have been doing better than alot of other countries, however we can still get better.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/anth484/minwage.html

Real minimum wage has been decreasing since '68 even though nominal has been rising. So while we get more money we have less purchasing power and the cost of living continues to rise.

greed

United States5 Posts

March 22 2010 22:10 GMT

#27

On March 23 2010 04:40 ProdT wrote:

Show nested quote +

Or until we get a government that is an exact copy of government from 1984(book that is).

sc4k

United Kingdom5454 Posts

March 22 2010 22:24 GMT

#28

It's true but that's just how the world works. Most of the people who are extremely rich have wealth because somewhere down the line someone got something right. Unfortunately that's just the way it works.

One things sure and nothing's surer, the rich get richer and the poor get...children

RoyW

Ireland270 Posts

March 22 2010 22:50 GMT

#29

On March 23 2010 06:52 Liquid`NonY wrote:
You think that the mere presence of inequality and/or growing inequality could possibly prove that injustice has occurred?

I just wrote something attempting to defend the American Dream but I deleted it because it's not really defensible. I'd argue that picking on how unrealistic the American Dream is isn't proving anything because it never was and never will be realistic. But if we're not going to talk about extremes, like achieving the American Dream means every potentiality in a person goes completely unhindered by the system, then I'll throw out my opinion that I'm not gonna try to support or defend: Most people who don't get what they want should rightly place more blame on themselves and the people around them who have about the same amount of power as them rather than blaming the people in power.

Nah, I avoided the whole 'injustice' thing because the term carries legal or corruption connotations. The vast majority of people are born into a situation where they are not afforded the opportunity to put in the groundwork to get what they want later in life. Sure, it's all fair to say "you're to blame for not getting what you want", but more importantly, there's a massive gap between the realistic wants of higher and poorer people that has nothing to do with their individual work-ethic.

Unfortunately that's just the way it works.

If only there was some sort of social and economic structure that could redress the balance...

meegrean

Thailand7699 Posts

March 22 2010 23:50 GMT

#30

Carlin might have exaggerated on some parts, but he's kinda right on what is happening in the US now. Lobbying is just disturbing.

Manifesto7

Osaka27151 Posts

March 23 2010 00:00 GMT

#31

On March 23 2010 06:54 decafchicken wrote:

Show nested quote +

And there are flat screen TVs to buy that weren't around in '68 too!

I read this recently, found it to be interesting.

chobopeon

United States7342 Posts

March 23 2010 03:16 GMT

#32

2006 5.15
2007 5.85
2008 6.55
2009 7.25

A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?

You just selectively quoted a 4 year period in which a landmark bill raised it more than ever before and acted as though it's happening every single year. How very honest of you. Remember when the country was founded in about 2001? Minimum wage has been skyrocketing a dollar a year ever since!

Oh wait. Minimum wage had stagnated for decades.