"Forget the politicians. The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice. You don't. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They've long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying. Lobbying, to get what they want.
Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that. That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right. They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don't want that.
You know what they want? They want obedient workers. Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they're coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They'll get it. They'll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place. It's a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it's the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy.
The table has tilted, folks. The game is rigged. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people - white collar, blue collar, it doesn't matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue - these are people of modest means - Continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don't give a fuck about you. They don't give a fuck about you. They don't care about you at all. At all. At all. And nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care.
That's what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that's being jammed up their assholes every day, because the owners of this country know the truth: It's called the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
Anyone who takes Carlin seriously is the dumb american he is referring to. This is mumbo jumbo that has slight shreads of truth mixed in with gross generalizations. Lap that shit up fellas, then call yourselfs independent thinkers.
"And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they're coming for your Social Security money."
Shittier jobs = government creations right? they create all the jobs out there? Federal minimum wage increases = lower pay? really? Requires healthcare insurance be provided for employees = reduced benefits? really?
*Social Security is not a product of American outcry or demands. Social security was created by the federal government to provide a safety net for senior citizens. I like how he does not cite the government created the benefit, instead says they are guilty of stealing it.
Federal minimum wage increases = lower pay? really?
minimum wage increases by a few nickels while the cost of living increases drastically
2006 5.15 2007 5.85 2008 6.55 2009 7.25
A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?
@Newborn, yea thats the idea of inflation. I agree the government has a role to control inflation. We have been doing better than alot of other countries, however we can still get better.
He did kinda say "they want it back" and I wasn't saying ANYTHING about how its the be all end all of anything. If I were to talk about "the truth" I would've started with how Americans were sold as stock in the stock market to get us out of the great depression, and that we are literally a product of our country, or I'd talk about how the three "city-states" (city of london, the district of columbia, and the vatican) not only are the centers of our "society" but also don't pay taxes. Too get into a discussion of such magnitude would take days upon days of explanations from all sides, its too grand in scope, I thought it would be nice to see things in a cynical way as George Carlin likes to put things.
As for that safety net for senior citizens, it won't be around when I finally qualify for it (if i ever become that old, as I am 22 currently.) as the money will have run out due to the Government needing and taking the money during Bill Clinton's Terms. Not saying he's the sole reason either.
So, I am sorry for offending/pissing off/being dumb or whatever offense I have committed, I only wanted to share something of interest to me. I never said its the end all be all, its a quote.
I could talk about a million other little details like how you have to work 6 years just to collect unemployment in America, but in Australia you can get it as long as your a citizen and 16 years old on your own. That Taiwan in 1995 reformed their healthcare by looking at the entire world for the best system, and they chose the American Medicare/Medicaid system, but expanded it to cover 100% of their population.
Believe it or not, but it's nice and reassuring to think that there's a big conspiracy going on that people are competent enough to do something as control the entire country and they keep education as shitty as possible to keep you sitting on your ass with a shitty job. The truth is far more scarier. Those dick head who are in control of things, in congress, business, and media are mostly comprised of complete idiots who are not capable of making good decisions.
I probably flew off the handle. Just seeing alot of anti government threads just filled with emotional rhetoric not based in facts. I don't mind seeing people speak out about the government, just use facts and good logic to make a good case.
Long live Carlin and his energetic stand-up delivery.
Sorry, but I fail to see how this justifies a thread, this quote is old and has surely been seen on TL before, and no opinion or information is offered in the OP than just: " stuff "
Federal minimum wage increases = lower pay? really?
minimum wage increases by a few nickels while the cost of living increases drastically
2006 5.15 2007 5.85 2008 6.55 2009 7.25
A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?
@Newborn, yea thats the idea of inflation. I agree the government has a role to control inflation. We have been doing better than alot of other countries, however we can still get better.
I hate to tell you this buddy but the cost of living is raising faster than the minimum wage increase. In fact it's generally always been higher.
It doesn't matter either way because most people are going to straight up agree it's pretty much impossible to live off of minimum wage on your own. Taxes + Health Care take significant chunks out of even a tiny ass check like the one you get from minimum wage.
In fact you get more money from unemployment benefits and welfare than you would working for minimum wage. How...stupid...is...that? A system that encourages you NOT to work is fundamentally flawed on so many levels I don't really know where to start.
On March 23 2010 04:03 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: Sorry, but I fail to see how this justifies a thread, this quote is old and has surely been seen on TL before, and no opinion or information is offered in the OP than just: " stuff "
Source?
Also that was a better opening post than it would have been if he said anything.
It really just sounds like you're a douche making a worthless post, which is completely different from making a worthless FIRST post, am I rite? User was temp banned for this post.
Sorry, but I fail to see how this justifies a thread, this quote is old and has surely been seen on TL before, and no opinion or information is offered in the OP than just: " stuff "
Source?
Also that was a better opening post than it would have been if he said anything.
It really just sounds like you're a douche making a worthless post, which is completely different from making a worthless FIRST post, am I rite?
"An opening post should set the tone for discussion by being thoughtful and well constructed."
To me, that implies more than a quote of someone else's thoughts without any opinion of your own or questions for discussion.
Also, don't get offended on behalf of the OP, calling me names isn't going to make you right or wrong.
How about this for a thought: It could be worse. You could be living in some third world country and get blown up on your way to a food market or something. Honestly even if the over the top radical thinking in the OP were true that still leaves us with a pretty good life compared to what it can be without a government. We still have the right to seek higher education, work in a field of our choice, and pretty much buy whatever we want/need to live a decent life. The end road of a "free market" like the one of the united states is that eventually those who accumulate vasts amounts of wealth (As they are allowed to by this system) eventually end up with a bigger say in how this place is run. You think those starving people in Africa would give two shits about having a government that is run by wealthy people, if they had the freedoms we have in America? I don't think so. George Carlin was a good critical thinker, but I don't think a world that's described by that quote is any worse than living somewhere dangerous like Afghanistan or even China where the government has a true power grip on the balls of its people.
George Carlin's hippie "The Corporations, man, they own you!" rants were my least favorite. I loved his work, but at some point you need to realize he was a comedian, not a prophet. The corporations, and indeed the government are made up of people, humans, not goblins. Go blame your shitty job on someone else already, this is getting old.
A goddamn revolution. That's right, look at the people who lived decades and hundreds of years ago. They had ideals/were oppressed/had a crappy government ==> revolution and fuck shit up. Power to the people but the people have no courage to use that power.
On March 23 2010 04:35 DwmC_Foefen wrote: You know what this world needs?
A goddamn revolution. That's right, look at the people who lived decades and hundreds of years ago. They had ideals/were oppressed/had a crappy government ==> revolution and fuck shit up. Power to the people but the people have no courage to use that power.
I think this quote is more true than ever.
Lets assume a revolution happened. Where do you think we would end up? The same damn situation we are in now. As long as governments are run by humans it will never be perfect. Maybe we should just keep starting revolutions until we get it right huh?
Inequalities are tolerable as long as everyone's position is improving on an absolute scale. Improving at a slower rate than someone else is still improving. It seems the argument in the OP is based on demonstrating an inequality in power and resources and a trend of growth in that inequality but those facts aren't sufficient to conclude that unfairness and injustice have occurred.
On March 23 2010 04:48 Liquid`NonY wrote: Inequalities are tolerable as long as everyone's position is improving on an absolute scale. Improving at a slower rate than someone else is still improving. It seems the argument in the OP is based on demonstrating an inequality in power and resources and a trend of growth in that inequality but those facts aren't sufficient to conclude that unfairness and injustice have occurred.
Unfairness, yes, 'injustice' is debatable. But when you look at the continually growing gap between the rich and poor in America, the declining class mobility, and the continual lowering of effective taxes for the richest in your country, then yes you can most definitely assert that the American Dream is, for the vast majority, a tool people use to delude themselves while they are getting shafted.
You think that the mere presence of inequality and/or growing inequality could possibly prove that injustice has occurred?
I just wrote something attempting to defend the American Dream but I deleted it because it's not really defensible. I'd argue that picking on how unrealistic the American Dream is isn't proving anything because it never was and never will be realistic. But if we're not going to talk about extremes, like achieving the American Dream means every potentiality in a person goes completely unhindered by the system, then I'll throw out my opinion that I'm not gonna try to support or defend: Most people who don't get what they want should rightly place more blame on themselves and the people around them who have about the same amount of power as them rather than blaming the people in power.
Federal minimum wage increases = lower pay? really?
minimum wage increases by a few nickels while the cost of living increases drastically
2006 5.15 2007 5.85 2008 6.55 2009 7.25
A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?
@Newborn, yea thats the idea of inflation. I agree the government has a role to control inflation. We have been doing better than alot of other countries, however we can still get better.
Real minimum wage has been decreasing since '68 even though nominal has been rising. So while we get more money we have less purchasing power and the cost of living continues to rise.
On March 23 2010 04:35 DwmC_Foefen wrote: You know what this world needs?
A goddamn revolution. That's right, look at the people who lived decades and hundreds of years ago. They had ideals/were oppressed/had a crappy government ==> revolution and fuck shit up. Power to the people but the people have no courage to use that power.
I think this quote is more true than ever.
Lets assume a revolution happened. Where do you think we would end up? The same damn situation we are in now. As long as governments are run by humans it will never be perfect. Maybe we should just keep starting revolutions until we get it right huh?
Or until we get a government that is an exact copy of government from 1984(book that is).
It's true but that's just how the world works. Most of the people who are extremely rich have wealth because somewhere down the line someone got something right. Unfortunately that's just the way it works.
One things sure and nothing's surer, the rich get richer and the poor get...children
On March 23 2010 06:52 Liquid`NonY wrote: You think that the mere presence of inequality and/or growing inequality could possibly prove that injustice has occurred?
I just wrote something attempting to defend the American Dream but I deleted it because it's not really defensible. I'd argue that picking on how unrealistic the American Dream is isn't proving anything because it never was and never will be realistic. But if we're not going to talk about extremes, like achieving the American Dream means every potentiality in a person goes completely unhindered by the system, then I'll throw out my opinion that I'm not gonna try to support or defend: Most people who don't get what they want should rightly place more blame on themselves and the people around them who have about the same amount of power as them rather than blaming the people in power.
Nah, I avoided the whole 'injustice' thing because the term carries legal or corruption connotations. The vast majority of people are born into a situation where they are not afforded the opportunity to put in the groundwork to get what they want later in life. Sure, it's all fair to say "you're to blame for not getting what you want", but more importantly, there's a massive gap between the realistic wants of higher and poorer people that has nothing to do with their individual work-ethic.
Unfortunately that's just the way it works.
If only there was some sort of social and economic structure that could redress the balance...
Federal minimum wage increases = lower pay? really?
minimum wage increases by a few nickels while the cost of living increases drastically
2006 5.15 2007 5.85 2008 6.55 2009 7.25
A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?
@Newborn, yea thats the idea of inflation. I agree the government has a role to control inflation. We have been doing better than alot of other countries, however we can still get better.
Real minimum wage has been decreasing since '68 even though nominal has been rising. So while we get more money we have less purchasing power and the cost of living continues to rise.
And there are flat screen TVs to buy that weren't around in '68 too!
A little more than nickels. Are we expecting the government to get you a $1 raise annually?
You just selectively quoted a 4 year period in which a landmark bill raised it more than ever before and acted as though it's happening every single year. How very honest of you. Remember when the country was founded in about 2001? Minimum wage has been skyrocketing a dollar a year ever since!
EPT
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