EPTMexico's Drug War - Page 36
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s4life
Peru1519 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36156 Posts
On February 10 2012 21:27 Bigtony wrote: Your interpretation of what I'm saying is horribly inaccurate. If people stopped buying drugs - just like there is a campaign against buying blood diamonds - or grew their own or made sure they bought their weed "local," then these cartels would lose power, money, etc. I never said we shouldn't legalize weed. I said it's not a magic catch all solution. These cartels are made up of criminals. No matter what is legal or illegal, THERE WILL ALWAYS BE CRIMINALS. They will move on to something else. Look at the drugs coming in from Eastern Europe - that inject-able shit that turns you into a fucking zombie and rots your skin straight off of your body. Look at the rapid growth in the crystal meth market in the US. Look at the resurgence in cocaine. Look at the abuse of prescription drugs across every age group. I don't think drug users are the scum of the earth, they're just people who make bad decisions. Drug users are victims? What? Victims of their own bad decisions, perhaps. Everybody makes choices in life. Choices have consequences. If you CHOOSE to do drugs, that's a BAD CHOICE and you should accept the consequences. It doesn't matter if you think the laws are unjust or if XYZ drug should be legal. The bottom line is you are willfully choosing the disobey the rules and regulations of society and that has consequences. You're going to find a lot of people who disagree with your opinion there. Actually, it does matter that the laws on drugs are retarded. It's really quite significant. I've never regarded drugs I've taken to have been 'bad choices'. | ||
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GosuNinja
United States127 Posts
On February 10 2012 21:34 Le French wrote: I read in the news that they are legalizing some form of drugs in Mexico now? Can people verify? I don't have any sources but i can tell you that ive personally bought ketamine over the counter in Nogales Mexico. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On February 10 2012 15:11 Bigtony wrote: Clearly unable to read. Shit. You are missing the point of legalization argument, and telling other people to read because of your lack of comprehension is real nice. That drug use and associated health problems will remain which seems to be the only point you are capable of making. If you'd notice the alcohol prohibition analogy, you might have recognized that alcoholism and associated risks like drug driving still remains in society. Of course, legalisation of alcohol didn't make its ills go away. The legalisation argument has two main thrusts, demilitarisation of the drug trade and reduction of corruption in the legal system. The "nonsense" points to these two side effects of drug criminalisation. The militarisation of the drug trade has immediate collateral damage, and the dirty money from the drug trade inevitable corrupts the police and the justice system, setting the table for more vicious gangsterism and political corruption. The legalisation argument in this vein naturally extends to a total legalisation of ANY and ALL drugs, marijuana, cocaine, heroine, crack, prescription, etc, as to eliminate the black market for mind-altering drugs, altogether. | ||
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Fusa
Canada148 Posts
You would have to have no laws then you would have no criminals or crimes because nothing is illegal, nothing to fight over other then the protection of yourself. Put it this way, if there is some lucrative way to make a large amount of money (legal or illegal), people will find a way to do it, the only thing that changes is the type of product. | ||
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DarkShadowz
Sweden321 Posts
I have worked for an organization that informs kids about the dangers of drugs. I have seen plenty of people ruining their lives and their loved ones because of drugs. You are NOT yourself when you take them. You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact. Either you get out in time or you will get fucked over. To everyone taking drugs here. YOU are responsible for the murder of thousands of people, and the suffering of millions wich is the consequense of the drug cartells hindering the development of countries. Not to mention the enviromental problems they cause. You can't hide from that fact, saying it's bad won't stop any of that. It's like shooting people with a gun and complaining that they should ban weapons because they are bad. If you live in a democracy and want drugs to be legal the way you go about it is to try and start an opinion about it, you don't take drugs as a protest. That's bad for the democracy, but maybe you don't belive in that system what do I know. Drugs are mainly produced in weak countries. Like afghanistan produced like 80% of the worlds opium. People in central and south america produce cocaine because they can't survive if they don't. The situation isn't easy but making it legal would bring so much suffering long term I would never support it. I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. | ||
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ChestKunt
Canada81 Posts
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
Mexican authorities have sacked the director of Apodaca prison in the northeast after jailed members of the Zetas drug cartel stabbed and bludgeoned 44 members of the rival Gulf cartel to death before escaping en masse. The escape on Sunday was apparently aided by prison authorities, Mexican officials said. Rodrigo Medina, governor of the northern state of Nuevo Leon, said on Monday that the prison director and three other officials were being investigated after their dismissal. The same was done with 18 prison guards, he said. "Unfortunately, a group of traitors has set back the work of a lot of good police," Medina said. "The most important thing is to make sure that the people working on the inside are on the side of the law, and that they not be corrupted and collaborate with the criminals, as the investigations indicate they presumably did." Deadly fights happen periodically in Mexico's prisons as gangs and drug cartels stage jail breaks and battle for control of prisons, often with the involvement of officials. Sunday's riot was one of the deadliest so far. Up to 31 prisoners died in January during a prison riot in the Gulf coast city of Altamira in Tamaulipas state, which borders Texas. Another fight in a Tamaulipas prison in the border city of Matamoros in October killed 20 inmates and injured 12. Source | ||
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Draconizard
628 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:48 roLangela wrote: ^^ lol how are we responsible for their deaths? We didnt make them join the cartel or join any drug war. It's their choices. We didnt make then do anything. Its unfortunate people die over drugs but its the world;its life. As an end user, you are absolutely responsible. You are certainly not responsible by yourself but still responsible nonetheless. Through the power of your wallet, you approve of how the product was manufactured every time you purchase it. You do not even have the poor excuse of ignorance, for you clearly do know how that product is made. | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:45 DarkShadowz wrote: Legalizing drugs is not a good idea. There is a very good reason for them to be illegal in the first place. But maybe you pro legalization thinks that opium for example had a positive effect on China. I have worked for an organization that informs kids about the dangers of drugs. I have seen plenty of people ruining their lives and their loved ones because of drugs. You are NOT yourself when you take them. You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact. Either you get out in time or you will get fucked over. To everyone taking drugs here. YOU are responsible for the murder of thousands of people, and the suffering of millions wich is the consequense of the drug cartells hindering the development of countries. Not to mention the enviromental problems they cause. You can't hide from that fact, saying it's bad won't stop any of that. It's like shooting people with a gun and complaining that they should ban weapons because they are bad. If you live in a democracy and want drugs to be legal the way you go about it is to try and start an opinion about it, you don't take drugs as a protest. That's bad for the democracy, but maybe you don't belive in that system what do I know. Drugs are mainly produced in weak countries. Like afghanistan produced like 80% of the worlds opium. People in central and south america produce cocaine because they can't survive if they don't. The situation isn't easy but making it legal would bring so much suffering long term I would never support it. I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. i hate to break it to you, but as roughly your 'target audience' i can say that posts like this are completely and utterly ineffective. like most of the australian drug information and a lot of anti-drug websites out there (though not all) it comes across as preachy and biased scare tactics. "You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact." this is where the bullshit detectors come on. when you're talking to somebody with a reasonable level of intelligence you just can't word stuff like this - you just prejudiced me against the entire rest of what you had to say. you can't work with absolutes and generalities. so, do you actually want to help people? people like me require unbiased information, not politician bullshit. | ||
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DarkShadowz
Sweden321 Posts
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Elementy
United States183 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:45 DarkShadowz wrote: I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. Nice!!!!! I am a recreational drug user.. the worst kind of drug user i hold a job down and support my family. Myself and most of my frinds that use are a blast to hang out with when there high. its when they withdraw thats bad.. People die for all sorts of reasons for amusement and enjoying life from different vactions or attractions of many sorts. Drugs kill alot. Alcohol kills alot. Just keep your life in order dont go to far and be productive in society and love your family!! ENJOY LIFE ITS SHORT! | ||
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newron
13 Posts
On February 10 2012 14:57 Bigtony wrote: Stop buying drugs. End this insanity. Ez pz, no government intervention needed if people simply followed the law and stopped buying drugs. While inherently some people will crave drugs, cartels/dealers are also pushing people to buy. They control the supply and have an influence on the demand as well. On top of that, there will always be criminals. If you legalize drugs, that doesn't eliminate a black market. The dealers will move on to a drug that is still illegal or they will sell legal drugs at black market (tax free) prices. Legalization has upsides, but it definitely is not a catch all miracle solution. lolwut? You think you can just tell people to stop using drugs? There will always be demand for drugs. You try telling a drug addict to just, well, stop. What happened when alcohol was re-legalized? Al Capone-style thugs were driven out of business. Tell me this: do you still see rum-runners shooting up one another over alcohol-distribution networks and turf? No, because alcohol consumers can meet their demand by going to the grocery store. Why would they choose to purchase alcohol from some thug with a tommy gun? Same thing with drug prohibition. If it were ended, the black market in drugs would be eliminated. Sure, there will always be criminals, and many of them would probably go into selling stolen phones or whatever, but when you pull billions of dollars of revenue out of the black market, guess what happens? It shrinks. | ||
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PanN
United States2828 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:45 DarkShadowz wrote: Legalizing drugs is not a good idea. There is a very good reason for them to be illegal in the first place. But maybe you pro legalization thinks that opium for example had a positive effect on China. I have worked for an organization that informs kids about the dangers of drugs. I have seen plenty of people ruining their lives and their loved ones because of drugs. You are NOT yourself when you take them. You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact. Either you get out in time or you will get fucked over. To everyone taking drugs here. YOU are responsible for the murder of thousands of people, and the suffering of millions wich is the consequense of the drug cartells hindering the development of countries. Not to mention the enviromental problems they cause. You can't hide from that fact, saying it's bad won't stop any of that. It's like shooting people with a gun and complaining that they should ban weapons because they are bad. If you live in a democracy and want drugs to be legal the way you go about it is to try and start an opinion about it, you don't take drugs as a protest. That's bad for the democracy, but maybe you don't belive in that system what do I know. Drugs are mainly produced in weak countries. Like afghanistan produced like 80% of the worlds opium. People in central and south america produce cocaine because they can't survive if they don't. The situation isn't easy but making it legal would bring so much suffering long term I would never support it. I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. EVERYONE taking drugs is responsible for the murder of thousands of people? I think you may want to check up on your logic for awhile champ. I'm a "drug user" and I'm not responsible for shit. I know where all my stuff comes from, so you can take your ludicrous claim and eat it alright? If you actually want to help people, how about you start by not spouting sensationalist crap and actually start educating people on the dangers of hard drugs? Or are you one of those types that sees the word "drug" and automatically thinks that they're all the devil? You're generalizing so much its pathetic. | ||
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Sickkiee
Japan607 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:45 DarkShadowz wrote: Legalizing drugs is not a good idea. There is a very good reason for them to be illegal in the first place. But maybe you pro legalization thinks that opium for example had a positive effect on China. I have worked for an organization that informs kids about the dangers of drugs. I have seen plenty of people ruining their lives and their loved ones because of drugs. You are NOT yourself when you take them. You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact. Either you get out in time or you will get fucked over. To everyone taking drugs here. YOU are responsible for the murder of thousands of people, and the suffering of millions wich is the consequense of the drug cartells hindering the development of countries. Not to mention the enviromental problems they cause. You can't hide from that fact, saying it's bad won't stop any of that. It's like shooting people with a gun and complaining that they should ban weapons because they are bad. If you live in a democracy and want drugs to be legal the way you go about it is to try and start an opinion about it, you don't take drugs as a protest. That's bad for the democracy, but maybe you don't belive in that system what do I know. Drugs are mainly produced in weak countries. Like afghanistan produced like 80% of the worlds opium. People in central and south america produce cocaine because they can't survive if they don't. The situation isn't easy but making it legal would bring so much suffering long term I would never support it. I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. Well its either farm drugs for drug cartels and earn a living or live in slums like most of Africa and fight constant wars. I'm sure most people would rather be slaves and earn some sort of money, then waiting for the day they get a few dollars from a nice American. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
Just sayin' | ||
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uiCk
Canada1925 Posts
On February 10 2012 22:45 DarkShadowz wrote: Legalizing drugs is not a good idea. There is a very good reason for them to be illegal in the first place. But maybe you pro legalization thinks that opium for example had a positive effect on China. I have worked for an organization that informs kids about the dangers of drugs. I have seen plenty of people ruining their lives and their loved ones because of drugs. You are NOT yourself when you take them. You might find it fun and dandy in the beginning but eventually they will start taking over your life. That is a fact. Either you get out in time or you will get fucked over. To everyone taking drugs here. YOU are responsible for the murder of thousands of people, and the suffering of millions wich is the consequense of the drug cartells hindering the development of countries. Not to mention the enviromental problems they cause. You can't hide from that fact, saying it's bad won't stop any of that. It's like shooting people with a gun and complaining that they should ban weapons because they are bad. If you live in a democracy and want drugs to be legal the way you go about it is to try and start an opinion about it, you don't take drugs as a protest. That's bad for the democracy, but maybe you don't belive in that system what do I know. Drugs are mainly produced in weak countries. Like afghanistan produced like 80% of the worlds opium. People in central and south america produce cocaine because they can't survive if they don't. The situation isn't easy but making it legal would bring so much suffering long term I would never support it. I know I'm a bit aggressive when it comes to drugs but I have seen and talked with drug addicts, and that certainly isn't fun. Problem is addiction, not the drugs. Until people realize that, nothing will change and people like you, who by the look of your post, have no real experience or any first hand understanding of substances and substance abuse environments, will keep spewing sensational drama, avoiding the real subject at hand: behaviors and environments. i would also be very disturbed if all my info came from the worse possible addicts. You can kill yourself with plastic spoon; logic that dictates that spoon is reason of death, and not the given behavior, is quite absurd. | ||
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XoXiDe
United States620 Posts
On February 21 2012 08:33 uiCk wrote: Problem is addiction, not the drugs. Until people realize that, nothing will change and people like you, who by the look of your post, have no real experience or any first hand understanding of substances and substance abuse environments, will keep spewing sensational drama, avoiding the real subject at hand: behaviors and environments. i would also be very disturbed if all my info came from the worse possible addicts. You can kill yourself with plastic spoon; logic that dictates that spoon is reason of death, and not the given behavior, is quite absurd. I would agree, though his notion that drug use will lead to addiction is actually not factual. There is a ton of data on drug usage in the United States and most drug users are recreational users, middle class, white, support families, and maintain jobs etc. The ONDCP distorts their own data and displays their data contrary to what many other reputable studies show. Also, An extremely small percentage of drug users actually become addicted. The US Govt does not however, distinguish between casual drug use and drug abuse, there is only drug abuse. I also have worked with a community of ex drug addicts and you cannot take anecdotal evidence and apply it to everyone. The solutions to drug use are not achievable within the criminal justice system as can be demonstrated by our overwhelming prison population and the 40 year drug war which fails to make any progress, drug use is a health and social problem. As long as the US continues down its war on drugs the secondary effects which are more pressing than the actual effects of drugs will continue to rise (access to food stamps, social stigmas, access to financial aid, separation of families, increased difficulty in obtaining employment, the incarceration of minorities at disproportionate rates). We also incarcerate African-Americans at a higher percentage rate than under Apartheid, that should cause some alarm. I hope your experience was not with a program like D.A.R.E. which have actually been proven to produce the opposite effect of what they were set out to achieve. | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
We also incarcerate African-Americans at a higher percentage rate than under Apartheid, that should cause some alarm. wow, that is intense shit. you guys should definitely watch the 'no knock raid' song on america's war on drugs. it was posted in this thread ages ago iirc. also somebody should probably create a separate topic on how the legality of drugs should be treated. i'm sure portugal has been mentioned many times.. | ||
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andReslic
216 Posts
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