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The European Debt Crisis and the Euro - Page 106

Forum Index > General Forum
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accela
Profile Joined February 2010
Greece314 Posts
March 20 2013 14:39 GMT
#2101
On March 20 2013 23:01 Hatsu wrote:
I am not sure Cyprus would be allowed to give Russia a military base. Is there even a reliable source stating this as a real possibility?


Well the major greek media report that on the early discussions russian side asking the 20% of the gas management and access to the "Mari" port and "Paphos" airport for resupply. I think it's too early to have any concrete plan.

I don't think we (Britain) would allow that, we have a major RAF base in cyprus


Don't see why not. From what i know the british base is self administered, it is not a territory that belongs to Republic of Cyprus and is granted to Britain, also (republic of) Cyprus is not even a NATO member.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 20 2013 15:03 GMT
#2102
On March 20 2013 23:39 accela wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 20 2013 23:01 Hatsu wrote:
I am not sure Cyprus would be allowed to give Russia a military base. Is there even a reliable source stating this as a real possibility?


Well the major greek media report that on the early discussions russian side asking the 20% of the gas management and access to the "Mari" port and "Paphos" airport for resupply. I think it's too early to have any concrete plan.

Show nested quote +
I don't think we (Britain) would allow that, we have a major RAF base in cyprus


Don't see why not. From what i know the british base is self administered, it is not a territory that belongs to Republic of Cyprus and is granted to Britain, also (republic of) Cyprus is not even a NATO member.


Britain wouldn't be happy with a Russian military base right next to theirs and would lobby/bully cyprus against doing so if it was on the table.
electronic voyeur
Profile Joined October 2012
United States133 Posts
March 20 2013 15:14 GMT
#2103
the Euro is taking is devastating toll
MyNameIsAlex
Profile Joined March 2011
Greece827 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 18:05:55
March 20 2013 18:02 GMT
#2104
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 18:13:31
March 20 2013 18:13 GMT
#2105
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.


And people like this guy are the reason why we need a northern union instead of a european union.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 20 2013 18:15 GMT
#2106
On March 21 2013 03:13 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.


And people like this guy are the reason why we need a northern union instead of a european union.


Or no union
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 18:16:42
March 20 2013 18:16 GMT
#2107
On March 21 2013 03:15 Zaros wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:13 Yuljan wrote:
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.


And people like this guy are the reason why we need a northern union instead of a european union.


Or no union


Well I do think a union has some advantages but in its current state and with the countries involved no union is preferable I guess.
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 18:20:30
March 20 2013 18:17 GMT
#2108
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.



Why would germany be happy with a weak euro?
It only means they are trading at an unfavourable rate, the german economy can still be competitive with a euro at 1.80.
The germans (and the netherlands and several other european countrys) want the euro to be strong, wich is the reason why we are not printing monney on the scale the uk and the usa do.

A weak currency is a last resort,where you are accepting trading at a worse rate to avoid complete economic collapse
Despite popular opinnion countrys do not want a weak currency, they would like to have a strong currency.
Zaros
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom3692 Posts
March 20 2013 18:19 GMT
#2109
On March 21 2013 03:17 Rassy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.



Why would germany be happy with a weak euro?
It only means they are trading at an unfavourable rate, the german economy can still be competitive with a euro at 1.80.
The germans (and the netherlands and several other european countrys) want the euro to be strong, wich is the reason why we are not printing monney on the scale of the uk and the usa do.


Weak euro boosts their large exports, as their goods become cheaper to people using other currencies although it does make imports more expensive - which can be good/bad depending on perspective.
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 18:24:55
March 20 2013 18:23 GMT
#2110
Yes a weak euro boost germans exports but germany dont need a weak euro, the german economy can cope verry well with a euro at 1.80 and still have a trade surplus! (according to a study wich i now unfortnatly cant find on the web).
The result of a weak euro is that germany have to trade 2 bmw,s for say 1k barrels of oil, while they could be trading 1 bmw for 1k barrels of oil. Having a weak currency is like a shop having a sale and selling things below cost price.You are able to sell but the indirect costs are verry high.
In the long run it is abolutely killing for the wealth in your country.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
March 20 2013 18:55 GMT
#2111
So Cyprus seems to be at least talking with Russia for sure. They already have a Russian loan from back in 2011 that they're renegotiating and that seems to be enough of a pretext to negotiate on other issues as well.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/100572452

If you watch the video the Cypriot finance minister says that they're looking beyond the existing loan for solutions.
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
March 20 2013 19:21 GMT
#2112
On March 21 2013 03:23 Rassy wrote:
Yes a weak euro boost germans exports but germany dont need a weak euro, the german economy can cope verry well with a euro at 1.80 and still have a trade surplus! (according to a study wich i now unfortnatly cant find on the web).
The result of a weak euro is that germany have to trade 2 bmw,s for say 1k barrels of oil, while they could be trading 1 bmw for 1k barrels of oil. Having a weak currency is like a shop having a sale and selling things below cost price.You are able to sell but the indirect costs are verry high.
In the long run it is abolutely killing for the wealth in your country.


you're logic is wrong. we export much more cars then we import oil.
and it is never killing wealth in your country to devalue, you're only losing wealth COMPARED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. if you don't need their goods, you lose nothing at all AND you can export better because your products are cheaper in foreign markets. just look at iceland.

germany is really interested in a weak euro, we just don't say it loud because USA and Japan wouldn't be pleased.
good thing there's all those southern countries keeping our currency low. i'd guess the DM would skyrocket to something like 1.5 - 2 € immediately thus doubling costs for german goods in other countries. and we would lose a big shared market since we don't give our own population enough money to buy our own manfactured goods. so germany would be in quite some trouble.
Silvanel
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Poland4733 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 19:34:00
March 20 2013 19:31 GMT
#2113
On March 21 2013 03:17 Rassy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.



Why would germany be happy with a weak euro?
It only means they are trading at an unfavourable rate, the german economy can still be competitive with a euro at 1.80.
The germans (and the netherlands and several other european countrys) want the euro to be strong, wich is the reason why we are not printing monney on the scale the uk and the usa do.

A weak currency is a last resort,where you are accepting trading at a worse rate to avoid complete economic collapse
Despite popular opinnion countrys do not want a weak currency, they would like to have a strong currency.


And thats why central banks and/or governemnts in some countries are emploing measures to lower the value of their currency on the regular basis? Like Japan or Poland for example?

theres planety fo sources, for example:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323984704578205303116695058.html
Pathetic Greta hater.
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 21:21:59
March 20 2013 21:20 GMT
#2114
On March 21 2013 04:21 fleeze wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:23 Rassy wrote:
Yes a weak euro boost germans exports but germany dont need a weak euro, the german economy can cope verry well with a euro at 1.80 and still have a trade surplus! (according to a study wich i now unfortnatly cant find on the web).
The result of a weak euro is that germany have to trade 2 bmw,s for say 1k barrels of oil, while they could be trading 1 bmw for 1k barrels of oil. Having a weak currency is like a shop having a sale and selling things below cost price.You are able to sell but the indirect costs are verry high.
In the long run it is abolutely killing for the wealth in your country.


you're logic is wrong. we export much more cars then we import oil.
and it is never killing wealth in your country to devalue, you're only losing wealth COMPARED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. if you don't need their goods, you lose nothing at all AND you can export better because your products are cheaper in foreign markets. just look at iceland.

germany is really interested in a weak euro, we just don't say it loud because USA and Japan wouldn't be pleased.
good thing there's all those southern countries keeping our currency low. i'd guess the DM would skyrocket to something like 1.5 - 2 € immediately thus doubling costs for german goods in other countries. and we would lose a big shared market since we don't give our own population enough money to buy our own manfactured goods. so germany would be in quite some trouble.


http://www.rieti.go.jp/jp/publications/dp/12e081.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +


4. Conclusion14
Germany is now the world’s second largest exporter. Its exports have soared since it
joined the common currency in 1999. This paper seeks to understand the relationship between
Germany’s exports and its exchange rate.
The results indicate that there is a long run equilibrium relationship between Germany’s
aggregate exports, its real exchange rate, and income in importing countries. In every
specification the evidence implies that an appreciation of the German reer would reduce exports.
The results using the unit labor cost-deflated reer are precisely and robustly estimated and
indicate that a 10 percent appreciation would reduce exports by 6 percent. German exports are
also sensitive to income in the rest of the world.
Results using a panel data set indicate that consumption exports are much more sensitive
than capital goods exports are to exchange rate changes. German capital goods exports tend to
be high quality goods that compete more on quality than on price. Thus the fact that the price
elasticity is small is not surprising. The findings also indicate that German exports to the
eurozone are much more price elastic than German exports outside the eurozone.

Since Germany experienced a large internal devaluation against other eurozone countries
after 2000, one would expect exports from Germany to the eurozone to have increased. Figure 2
shows that there was indeed a surge in exports to the eurozone. This in turn contributed to the
huge eurozone imbalances that are evident in Figure 3.
Viewed from the perspective of capital flows, eurozone imbalances developed partly
because German banks became more willing to invest in peripheral eurozone countries after the
countries joined the common currency (see Gros and Mayer, 2012). However, following the
eurozone crisis, German banks and savers have become less willing to invest in Greece, Spain, 15
Portugal, Italy, and other deficit countries. Current account imbalances between European
countries may thus prove unsustainable.
In a flexible exchange rate system, part of the resulting adjustment would come through a
nominal appreciation of the German currency relative to the currencies of the deficit countries.
This is precluded as long as these countries share a common currency. Exchange rate adjustment
must come instead through a decline in wages and prices or an increase in productivity in the
peripheral countries vis-à-vis Germany. The evidence presented here indicates that these
adjustments will have to be large. Restoring equilibrium in the eurozone is thus likely to be a
long and painful process.


Sure a high exchange rate isn't perfect for us but keep in mind that the southern states are pushing for printing more money and devaluing their debts not Germany.
MyNameIsAlex
Profile Joined March 2011
Greece827 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 21:35:42
March 20 2013 21:21 GMT
#2115
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs

On March 21 2013 06:20 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 04:21 fleeze wrote:
On March 21 2013 03:23 Rassy wrote:
Yes a weak euro boost germans exports but germany dont need a weak euro, the german economy can cope verry well with a euro at 1.80 and still have a trade surplus! (according to a study wich i now unfortnatly cant find on the web).
The result of a weak euro is that germany have to trade 2 bmw,s for say 1k barrels of oil, while they could be trading 1 bmw for 1k barrels of oil. Having a weak currency is like a shop having a sale and selling things below cost price.You are able to sell but the indirect costs are verry high.
In the long run it is abolutely killing for the wealth in your country.


you're logic is wrong. we export much more cars then we import oil.
and it is never killing wealth in your country to devalue, you're only losing wealth COMPARED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. if you don't need their goods, you lose nothing at all AND you can export better because your products are cheaper in foreign markets. just look at iceland.

germany is really interested in a weak euro, we just don't say it loud because USA and Japan wouldn't be pleased.
good thing there's all those southern countries keeping our currency low. i'd guess the DM would skyrocket to something like 1.5 - 2 € immediately thus doubling costs for german goods in other countries. and we would lose a big shared market since we don't give our own population enough money to buy our own manfactured goods. so germany would be in quite some trouble.


http://www.rieti.go.jp/jp/publications/dp/12e081.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +


4. Conclusion14
Germany is now the world’s second largest exporter. Its exports have soared since it
joined the common currency in 1999. This paper seeks to understand the relationship between
Germany’s exports and its exchange rate.
The results indicate that there is a long run equilibrium relationship between Germany’s
aggregate exports, its real exchange rate, and income in importing countries. In every
specification the evidence implies that an appreciation of the German reer would reduce exports.
The results using the unit labor cost-deflated reer are precisely and robustly estimated and
indicate that a 10 percent appreciation would reduce exports by 6 percent. German exports are
also sensitive to income in the rest of the world.
Results using a panel data set indicate that consumption exports are much more sensitive
than capital goods exports are to exchange rate changes. German capital goods exports tend to
be high quality goods that compete more on quality than on price. Thus the fact that the price
elasticity is small is not surprising. The findings also indicate that German exports to the
eurozone are much more price elastic than German exports outside the eurozone.

Since Germany experienced a large internal devaluation against other eurozone countries
after 2000, one would expect exports from Germany to the eurozone to have increased. Figure 2
shows that there was indeed a surge in exports to the eurozone. This in turn contributed to the
huge eurozone imbalances that are evident in Figure 3.
Viewed from the perspective of capital flows, eurozone imbalances developed partly
because German banks became more willing to invest in peripheral eurozone countries after the
countries joined the common currency (see Gros and Mayer, 2012). However, following the
eurozone crisis, German banks and savers have become less willing to invest in Greece, Spain, 15
Portugal, Italy, and other deficit countries. Current account imbalances between European
countries may thus prove unsustainable.
In a flexible exchange rate system, part of the resulting adjustment would come through a
nominal appreciation of the German currency relative to the currencies of the deficit countries.
This is precluded as long as these countries share a common currency. Exchange rate adjustment
must come instead through a decline in wages and prices or an increase in productivity in the
peripheral countries vis-à-vis Germany. The evidence presented here indicates that these
adjustments will have to be large. Restoring equilibrium in the eurozone is thus likely to be a
long and painful process.


Sure a high exchange rate isn't perfect for us but keep in mind that the southern states are pushing for printing more money and devaluing their debts not Germany.


Germany devalues the Euro with keeping th Eurozone crisis stale. The Cyprus crisis is stale for the last 2 months, and the proposed measures were a joke. I think everyone agrees on this. If not, then how about a global bank run since your deposits are in not secured anymore (hey it happened to Cyprus, and it can happen on (Spain, Portugal, Italy, maybe France)? The domino will destroy most banks.

Germany had a big say on them too.

How they didn't devalue the Euro with this?

The same with every Eurogroup and the European Crisis in general.

On March 21 2013 03:13 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.


And people like this guy are the reason why we need a northern union instead of a european union.


People like you should really get some education before opening their big loud mouth and parotting the propaganda.
Yuljan
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
2196 Posts
March 20 2013 21:36 GMT
#2116
On March 21 2013 06:21 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs


No thats the problem you have no economic knowledge not even the basics. We dont want a strong currency and we dont want a weak currency and now the shock! We want a "stable" currency.

Somewhat old but I couldnt find a newer study on germany on google in 2mins.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/quarterly_review/1984v9/v9n1article2.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +
Conclusions
The results of this study suggest that exchange rate
variability reduces the volume of international trade in
manufactured goods
. This conclusion differs from the
findings of previous empirical research,'2 which has often failed to uncover any significant impact of exchange risk
on trade. Admittedly, our conclusion is based on the
floating rate experience of only two countries, Germany
and the United States. Further empirical research on the
experience of a broader group of countries would be
necessary to reach more general conclusions on the
significance of exchange rate uncertainty.
Why do the findings in this study differ from those in
earlier studies? One obvious explanation would seem
to be our choice of an investigation period which covers
the more recent experience with floating exchange rates.
Including recent data is important for our results
because exchange rate volatility has shown no con-
sistent downward tendency over time and because it
provides a sufficiently long sample period with floating
exchange rates. This impression is confirmed by the
results obtained with data through 1978. Earlier
research has not investigated the period since 1977-78
and generally has mixed observations from the first few
years of floating with those from the fixed rate period
before 1973. Even the recent IMF study, mentioned
above, does not update previous econometric tests
dealing with effects of nominal exchange rate variability
on trade flows of individual countries; it does update,
however, one earlier investigation based on real
exchange rate variability. But we have argued that real
exchange rate variability is not an appropriate proxy for
exchange rate uncertainty.
Another reason for the differences in findings may be
that our measure of average quarterly variability, based
on a daily effective exchange rate index, provides a
better proxy for uncertainty than those in earlier studies
that were based on a very small number of observa-
tions, e.g., average quarterly variability calculated by
using three monthly observations. Finally, by explicitly
16 FRBNY Quarterly Review/Spring 1984
considering the impact of risk on volume through prices,
our study probably provides a better reading of the full
effect of exchange rate variability on trade.
We have argued that our estimates are likely to
underestimate the effects of exchange rate uncertainty
on trade for two reasons. First, measured exchange rate
variability may itself understate the extent of true
uncertainty and second, some indirect exchange risk
effects on trade cannot be separated from those of
exchange rate changes themselves. The indirect effects
are particularly important when long-range investment
decisions and choices of input sources or output mar-
kets must be made under the shadow of potentially
large future exchange rate changes. Our use of long
lags on the variability index may capture a part of these
long-term effects. But this procedure is not adequate for
fully isolating and measuring those effects. In any case,.
the main point of our theoreticaI arguments on uncer-
tainty is that the results in this study are best interpreted
as providing a lower bound on the effects of exchange
uncertainty on international trade.
One important policy implication of our study is that,
from the perspective of international trade, it is desirable
to reduce exchange rate uncertainty or variability.
Broadly speaking, variability may be reduced either by
changes in macroeconomic policies, by exchange
market intervention strategies, or by moving to a sub-
stantially different exchange rate system. A discussion
of such a complex and broad issue is obviously beyond
the scope of this study. But it should be noted that the
possible adverse effect of exchange rate uncertainty on
international trade is only one of several considerations
in the choice of an exchange rate system, and on other
grounds one may still favor the present exchange rate
arrangements.
MyNameIsAlex
Profile Joined March 2011
Greece827 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-20 21:44:41
March 20 2013 21:38 GMT
#2117
On March 21 2013 06:36 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 06:21 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs


No thats the problem you have no economic knowledge not even the basics. We dont want a strong currency and we dont want a weak currency and now the shock! We want a "stable" currency.

Somewhat old but I couldnt find a newer study on germany on google in 2mins.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/quarterly_review/1984v9/v9n1article2.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +
Conclusions
The results of this study suggest that exchange rate
variability reduces the volume of international trade in
manufactured goods
. This conclusion differs from the
findings of previous empirical research,'2 which has often failed to uncover any significant impact of exchange risk
on trade. Admittedly, our conclusion is based on the
floating rate experience of only two countries, Germany
and the United States. Further empirical research on the
experience of a broader group of countries would be
necessary to reach more general conclusions on the
significance of exchange rate uncertainty.
Why do the findings in this study differ from those in
earlier studies? One obvious explanation would seem
to be our choice of an investigation period which covers
the more recent experience with floating exchange rates.
Including recent data is important for our results
because exchange rate volatility has shown no con-
sistent downward tendency over time and because it
provides a sufficiently long sample period with floating
exchange rates. This impression is confirmed by the
results obtained with data through 1978. Earlier
research has not investigated the period since 1977-78
and generally has mixed observations from the first few
years of floating with those from the fixed rate period
before 1973. Even the recent IMF study, mentioned
above, does not update previous econometric tests
dealing with effects of nominal exchange rate variability
on trade flows of individual countries; it does update,
however, one earlier investigation based on real
exchange rate variability. But we have argued that real
exchange rate variability is not an appropriate proxy for
exchange rate uncertainty.
Another reason for the differences in findings may be
that our measure of average quarterly variability, based
on a daily effective exchange rate index, provides a
better proxy for uncertainty than those in earlier studies
that were based on a very small number of observa-
tions, e.g., average quarterly variability calculated by
using three monthly observations. Finally, by explicitly
16 FRBNY Quarterly Review/Spring 1984
considering the impact of risk on volume through prices,
our study probably provides a better reading of the full
effect of exchange rate variability on trade.
We have argued that our estimates are likely to
underestimate the effects of exchange rate uncertainty
on trade for two reasons. First, measured exchange rate
variability may itself understate the extent of true
uncertainty and second, some indirect exchange risk
effects on trade cannot be separated from those of
exchange rate changes themselves. The indirect effects
are particularly important when long-range investment
decisions and choices of input sources or output mar-
kets must be made under the shadow of potentially
large future exchange rate changes. Our use of long
lags on the variability index may capture a part of these
long-term effects. But this procedure is not adequate for
fully isolating and measuring those effects. In any case,.
the main point of our theoreticaI arguments on uncer-
tainty is that the results in this study are best interpreted
as providing a lower bound on the effects of exchange
uncertainty on international trade.
One important policy implication of our study is that,
from the perspective of international trade, it is desirable
to reduce exchange rate uncertainty or variability.
Broadly speaking, variability may be reduced either by
changes in macroeconomic policies, by exchange
market intervention strategies, or by moving to a sub-
stantially different exchange rate system. A discussion
of such a complex and broad issue is obviously beyond
the scope of this study. But it should be noted that the
possible adverse effect of exchange rate uncertainty on
international trade is only one of several considerations
in the choice of an exchange rate system, and on other
grounds one may still favor the present exchange rate
arrangements.


Im pretty sure you know the markets/economy have changed alot since 1984. Keep parotting what you see on TV. GJ. Also devaluation and stability can coexist.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
March 20 2013 21:40 GMT
#2118
On March 21 2013 06:36 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 06:21 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs


No thats the problem you have no economic knowledge not even the basics. We dont want a strong currency and we dont want a weak currency and now the shock! We want a "stable" currency.

Somewhat old but I couldnt find a newer study on germany on google in 2mins.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/quarterly_review/1984v9/v9n1article2.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +
Conclusions
The results of this study suggest that exchange rate
variability reduces the volume of international trade in
manufactured goods
. This conclusion differs from the
findings of previous empirical research,'2 which has often failed to uncover any significant impact of exchange risk
on trade. Admittedly, our conclusion is based on the
floating rate experience of only two countries, Germany
and the United States. Further empirical research on the
experience of a broader group of countries would be
necessary to reach more general conclusions on the
significance of exchange rate uncertainty.
Why do the findings in this study differ from those in
earlier studies? One obvious explanation would seem
to be our choice of an investigation period which covers
the more recent experience with floating exchange rates.
Including recent data is important for our results
because exchange rate volatility has shown no con-
sistent downward tendency over time and because it
provides a sufficiently long sample period with floating
exchange rates. This impression is confirmed by the
results obtained with data through 1978. Earlier
research has not investigated the period since 1977-78
and generally has mixed observations from the first few
years of floating with those from the fixed rate period
before 1973. Even the recent IMF study, mentioned
above, does not update previous econometric tests
dealing with effects of nominal exchange rate variability
on trade flows of individual countries; it does update,
however, one earlier investigation based on real
exchange rate variability. But we have argued that real
exchange rate variability is not an appropriate proxy for
exchange rate uncertainty.
Another reason for the differences in findings may be
that our measure of average quarterly variability, based
on a daily effective exchange rate index, provides a
better proxy for uncertainty than those in earlier studies
that were based on a very small number of observa-
tions, e.g., average quarterly variability calculated by
using three monthly observations. Finally, by explicitly
16 FRBNY Quarterly Review/Spring 1984
considering the impact of risk on volume through prices,
our study probably provides a better reading of the full
effect of exchange rate variability on trade.
We have argued that our estimates are likely to
underestimate the effects of exchange rate uncertainty
on trade for two reasons. First, measured exchange rate
variability may itself understate the extent of true
uncertainty and second, some indirect exchange risk
effects on trade cannot be separated from those of
exchange rate changes themselves. The indirect effects
are particularly important when long-range investment
decisions and choices of input sources or output mar-
kets must be made under the shadow of potentially
large future exchange rate changes. Our use of long
lags on the variability index may capture a part of these
long-term effects. But this procedure is not adequate for
fully isolating and measuring those effects. In any case,.
the main point of our theoreticaI arguments on uncer-
tainty is that the results in this study are best interpreted
as providing a lower bound on the effects of exchange
uncertainty on international trade.
One important policy implication of our study is that,
from the perspective of international trade, it is desirable
to reduce exchange rate uncertainty or variability.
Broadly speaking, variability may be reduced either by
changes in macroeconomic policies, by exchange
market intervention strategies, or by moving to a sub-
stantially different exchange rate system. A discussion
of such a complex and broad issue is obviously beyond
the scope of this study. But it should be noted that the
possible adverse effect of exchange rate uncertainty on
international trade is only one of several considerations
in the choice of an exchange rate system, and on other
grounds one may still favor the present exchange rate
arrangements.

I doubt people are going to argue that Germany doesn't want a stable currency. The issue seems to be that people mistaken currency devaluation for instability.
fleeze
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany895 Posts
March 20 2013 21:46 GMT
#2119
On March 21 2013 06:36 Yuljan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 06:21 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs


No thats the problem you have no economic knowledge not even the basics. We dont want a strong currency and we dont want a weak currency and now the shock! We want a "stable" currency.

Somewhat old but I couldnt find a newer study on germany on google in 2mins.

http://www.newyorkfed.org/research/quarterly_review/1984v9/v9n1article2.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +
Conclusions
The results of this study suggest that exchange rate
variability reduces the volume of international trade in
manufactured goods
. This conclusion differs from the
findings of previous empirical research,'2 which has often failed to uncover any significant impact of exchange risk
on trade. Admittedly, our conclusion is based on the
floating rate experience of only two countries, Germany
and the United States. Further empirical research on the
experience of a broader group of countries would be
necessary to reach more general conclusions on the
significance of exchange rate uncertainty.
Why do the findings in this study differ from those in
earlier studies? One obvious explanation would seem
to be our choice of an investigation period which covers
the more recent experience with floating exchange rates.
Including recent data is important for our results
because exchange rate volatility has shown no con-
sistent downward tendency over time and because it
provides a sufficiently long sample period with floating
exchange rates. This impression is confirmed by the
results obtained with data through 1978. Earlier
research has not investigated the period since 1977-78
and generally has mixed observations from the first few
years of floating with those from the fixed rate period
before 1973. Even the recent IMF study, mentioned
above, does not update previous econometric tests
dealing with effects of nominal exchange rate variability
on trade flows of individual countries; it does update,
however, one earlier investigation based on real
exchange rate variability. But we have argued that real
exchange rate variability is not an appropriate proxy for
exchange rate uncertainty.
Another reason for the differences in findings may be
that our measure of average quarterly variability, based
on a daily effective exchange rate index, provides a
better proxy for uncertainty than those in earlier studies
that were based on a very small number of observa-
tions, e.g., average quarterly variability calculated by
using three monthly observations. Finally, by explicitly
16 FRBNY Quarterly Review/Spring 1984
considering the impact of risk on volume through prices,
our study probably provides a better reading of the full
effect of exchange rate variability on trade.
We have argued that our estimates are likely to
underestimate the effects of exchange rate uncertainty
on trade for two reasons. First, measured exchange rate
variability may itself understate the extent of true
uncertainty and second, some indirect exchange risk
effects on trade cannot be separated from those of
exchange rate changes themselves. The indirect effects
are particularly important when long-range investment
decisions and choices of input sources or output mar-
kets must be made under the shadow of potentially
large future exchange rate changes. Our use of long
lags on the variability index may capture a part of these
long-term effects. But this procedure is not adequate for
fully isolating and measuring those effects. In any case,.
the main point of our theoreticaI arguments on uncer-
tainty is that the results in this study are best interpreted
as providing a lower bound on the effects of exchange
uncertainty on international trade.
One important policy implication of our study is that,
from the perspective of international trade, it is desirable
to reduce exchange rate uncertainty or variability.
Broadly speaking, variability may be reduced either by
changes in macroeconomic policies, by exchange
market intervention strategies, or by moving to a sub-
stantially different exchange rate system. A discussion
of such a complex and broad issue is obviously beyond
the scope of this study. But it should be noted that the
possible adverse effect of exchange rate uncertainty on
international trade is only one of several considerations
in the choice of an exchange rate system, and on other
grounds one may still favor the present exchange rate
arrangements.


i think you are missing basics. sure we want a stable currency. a WEAK stable currency, meaning an UNDERVALUED currency with low volatility. such as uhmmm, the euro. compared to a high valued and also stable DM. the "shock" was more that northern european politicians where somewhat "surprised" it turned out keeping the currency weak and stable at the same time is not easy.
well, at least if your preventing your own central banks to buy your own bonds. it's easy if you do it the US/Japan way. but the ECB will NEVER buy its own countries bonds. that would be waaaaaaay to easy (and according to some monetarists without logic should lead to INFLATION, hahahah)
ACrow
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6583 Posts
March 20 2013 21:48 GMT
#2120
On March 21 2013 06:21 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
people are quick to attack the south, believin everything they see in TV, and acting with ignorance of how the markets work.


Ok guys Germany wants a strong Euro. Whatever you say. /Laughs

Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 06:20 Yuljan wrote:
On March 21 2013 04:21 fleeze wrote:
On March 21 2013 03:23 Rassy wrote:
Yes a weak euro boost germans exports but germany dont need a weak euro, the german economy can cope verry well with a euro at 1.80 and still have a trade surplus! (according to a study wich i now unfortnatly cant find on the web).
The result of a weak euro is that germany have to trade 2 bmw,s for say 1k barrels of oil, while they could be trading 1 bmw for 1k barrels of oil. Having a weak currency is like a shop having a sale and selling things below cost price.You are able to sell but the indirect costs are verry high.
In the long run it is abolutely killing for the wealth in your country.


you're logic is wrong. we export much more cars then we import oil.
and it is never killing wealth in your country to devalue, you're only losing wealth COMPARED TO OTHER COUNTRIES. if you don't need their goods, you lose nothing at all AND you can export better because your products are cheaper in foreign markets. just look at iceland.

germany is really interested in a weak euro, we just don't say it loud because USA and Japan wouldn't be pleased.
good thing there's all those southern countries keeping our currency low. i'd guess the DM would skyrocket to something like 1.5 - 2 € immediately thus doubling costs for german goods in other countries. and we would lose a big shared market since we don't give our own population enough money to buy our own manfactured goods. so germany would be in quite some trouble.


http://www.rieti.go.jp/jp/publications/dp/12e081.pdf

+ Show Spoiler +


4. Conclusion14
Germany is now the world’s second largest exporter. Its exports have soared since it
joined the common currency in 1999. This paper seeks to understand the relationship between
Germany’s exports and its exchange rate.
The results indicate that there is a long run equilibrium relationship between Germany’s
aggregate exports, its real exchange rate, and income in importing countries. In every
specification the evidence implies that an appreciation of the German reer would reduce exports.
The results using the unit labor cost-deflated reer are precisely and robustly estimated and
indicate that a 10 percent appreciation would reduce exports by 6 percent. German exports are
also sensitive to income in the rest of the world.
Results using a panel data set indicate that consumption exports are much more sensitive
than capital goods exports are to exchange rate changes. German capital goods exports tend to
be high quality goods that compete more on quality than on price. Thus the fact that the price
elasticity is small is not surprising. The findings also indicate that German exports to the
eurozone are much more price elastic than German exports outside the eurozone.

Since Germany experienced a large internal devaluation against other eurozone countries
after 2000, one would expect exports from Germany to the eurozone to have increased. Figure 2
shows that there was indeed a surge in exports to the eurozone. This in turn contributed to the
huge eurozone imbalances that are evident in Figure 3.
Viewed from the perspective of capital flows, eurozone imbalances developed partly
because German banks became more willing to invest in peripheral eurozone countries after the
countries joined the common currency (see Gros and Mayer, 2012). However, following the
eurozone crisis, German banks and savers have become less willing to invest in Greece, Spain, 15
Portugal, Italy, and other deficit countries. Current account imbalances between European
countries may thus prove unsustainable.
In a flexible exchange rate system, part of the resulting adjustment would come through a
nominal appreciation of the German currency relative to the currencies of the deficit countries.
This is precluded as long as these countries share a common currency. Exchange rate adjustment
must come instead through a decline in wages and prices or an increase in productivity in the
peripheral countries vis-à-vis Germany. The evidence presented here indicates that these
adjustments will have to be large. Restoring equilibrium in the eurozone is thus likely to be a
long and painful process.


Sure a high exchange rate isn't perfect for us but keep in mind that the southern states are pushing for printing more money and devaluing their debts not Germany.


Germany devalues the Euro with keeping th Eurozone crisis stale. The Cyprus crisis is stale for the last 2 months, and the proposed measures were a joke. I think everyone agrees on this. If not, then how about a global bank run since your deposits are in not secured anymore (hey it happened to Cyprus, and it can happen on (Spain, Portugal, Italy, maybe France)? The domino will destroy most banks.

Germany had a big say on them too.

How they didn't devalue the Euro with this?

The same with every Eurogroup and the European Crisis in general.

Show nested quote +
On March 21 2013 03:13 Yuljan wrote:
On March 21 2013 03:02 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
On March 21 2013 00:14 electronic voyeur wrote:
the Euro is taking is devastating toll


Germany is happy about that. Euro going down, USD/EUR going up, more exports for them.

Also now all the south is afraid of having money in their banks, they will move them to germany/swiss banks since their considered as the safest banks in Europe (which isn't true according to many analysts).

They win twice short term.In the long run this will bite their ass.


And people like this guy are the reason why we need a northern union instead of a european union.


People like you should really get some education before opening their big loud mouth and parotting the propaganda.

Maybe you shouldn't believe everything you see on Greek TV and be so quick to attack Germany?
Just try to view this from a German's perspective (that's called empathy): Germany pays billions over billions of tax money - money that I worked very hard for - and as thanks Germany gets called Nazis and on every demonstration there are anti-German chants and/or signs.
Now I get that the bailouts are used to bailout banks (some of them even German) and not help the small people while at the same time they are asking a lot of neoliberal crap. I'm against that. I know it doesn't really help. I didn't vote for that. Yet, I don't think it's fair to ask for so much and at the same time insult the hand that's feeding you. You should be angry at the incompetent politicians you voted into office the last decade, because those are the ones that failed. We all should be angry at a EU construct that is unable to deal with this, because it lacks the means to properly deal with it.
And I don't get how anyone can be against letting stakeholders of Cyprus banks pay their share, as long as only the ones holding more than 100k € are affected (the decision to give a haircut to the ones below 100k was a decision by Cyprus government btw, the Troika just demanded a sum of 5.8bn from the haircut, not how it is distributed). Cyprus government tried to protect their foreign customers coming to Cyprus banks to enjoy low tax rates (which is quite parasitic in nature btw). Be angry at them, not at the Troika.
Get off my lawn, young punks
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