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On November 25 2009 16:51 Carthac wrote:
The poor kid died of cancer, and just so happened to get a following of people who wanted to go out of their way to make his passing a little easier, while giving the rest of the world a heartwarming story.
how about let him die before those 2 years of pain? that would've saved him 2 years of pain with the exact same outcome. aka his passing would be extremly easier.
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On November 15 2009 17:45 old times sake wrote:
Do you worry that your support for this child has been too targeted to one child, and too cheap? I for one am donating a tithe of my income to help cure cancer. But then what about other diseases? It seems to never end.
So unless the point is to make yourself feel better, I really don't understand the "find" here that seems so viciously defended. Once you choose to think about things like this, a torrent of worse situations should come crashing down on you, making you some kind of triage doctor with only enough cash to save 0.000001% of the patients, less than that if you don't give up major parts of your expected standard of living (which is guiltily above the majority of the victims you emotionally want to take a bullet for). Bottom line, put yourself on the cross if that's your thing, or play the numbers game, but stopping so short as a card is really some form of emotional masturbation in my humble opinion, and I for one am more interested in the critical responses than the puppy-appreciation-like oos and awws.
Anyways, thanks for the opportunity to discuss this interesting topic. I look forward to more discussions on this site.
First of all I want to say while I don't visit this site all too often anymore, I would hope you would stick around.
This was the section of your post that caught my eye more than anything else. I was tempted to touch on the subject myself, but I stopped myself. The reason being, is that all things must come in steps.
If we live our perfect little life away from troubled people and difficult situations, we have a difficult time personifying any real cause. I think you show the two sides quite well, and rather than summarize what you said and obviously know yourself, I will simply say that the ideal 'gray area' of generosity is quite blurred. For those who have never donated anything, be it money, time or even blood, the simple step of sending a Christmas card can be a good step in the right direction.
The more we live, the more we grow into ourselves and learn how to synchronize ourselves with the world around us. While it may work for one person to be satisfied with a simple Christmas card, others will only feel satisfied after donating a larch chunk of money or time.
Of course, those who do donated the large chunk of money or time will criticize those who only donated a simple card, just as those who donated the card will criticize those who did nothing.
Both groups wondering how the other can be so shallow.
So, then we come back to that infinitely hazy 'gray area' we talked about earlier, and the original purpose of my response. I think it can be wrapped up and summarized into 3 simple areas.
First, you have to take into account that in the grand scheme of things (I do believe you mentioned that 0.000001%, however I would estimate it much smaller personally), how much are you really doing. And how much difference is it to donate a Christmas card, as apposed to a $30 installment.
Second, it brings up the question of who is really the one being selfish. You mentioned 'emotional masturbation' but I believe that your term can be applied to anyone's generosity, because no matter what, your giving because it makes you feel good. If it made you feel shitty to help cure cancer I would suggest you have a different problem entirely.
So what does that leave us with? Simply an extremely blurry line of reference with no reasonable solution. Thus, I believe that ridiculing someones generosity is never useful, and more often than not I would suggest it is quite the opposite.
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On November 25 2009 20:15 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 16:51 Carthac wrote:
The poor kid died of cancer, and just so happened to get a following of people who wanted to go out of their way to make his passing a little easier, while giving the rest of the world a heartwarming story. how about let him die before those 2 years of pain? that would've saved him 2 years of pain with the exact same outcome. aka his passing would be extremly easier.
We should just kill you since that will save you from continuing to be miserable. You're going to die anyway, so it's exactly the same outcome, right?
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On November 26 2009 01:07 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 20:15 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On November 25 2009 16:51 Carthac wrote:
The poor kid died of cancer, and just so happened to get a following of people who wanted to go out of their way to make his passing a little easier, while giving the rest of the world a heartwarming story. how about let him die before those 2 years of pain? that would've saved him 2 years of pain with the exact same outcome. aka his passing would be extremly easier. We should just kill you since that will save you from continuing to be miserable. You're going to die anyway, so it's exactly the same outcome, right?
you miss very significant difference, I'm not suffering any pain at all, killing someone =!= letting someone die.
How am I miserable if I don't let a kid suffer pain for 2 years, if someone is miserable then the one letting a kid go through such a bullshit.
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You're suffering from being a miserable cunt, which is perhaps worse than dying from terminal cancer. There are many people that give a lot and go through a lot to continue living even when they're dying from an incurable disease. Is it miserable for them to continue living even when they know their days are numbered? All of us have a limited time in the world. If pain alone is enough to give you a reason to just keel over a die then perhaps you should cut your string of life right now.
I mean, whether you're dying from disease, in pain, or healthy, you're just going to die in the end anyway, right? Fuck, maybe I should have just killed myself when I broke my leg since that hurt like fuck. Those sadistic doctors made me live through the pain.
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On November 26 2009 01:25 koreasilver wrote:
You're suffering from being a miserable cunt, which is perhaps worse than dying from terminal cancer. There are many people that give a lot and go through a lot to continue living even when they're dying from an incurable disease. Is it miserable for them to continue living even when they know their days are numbered? All of us have a limited time in the world. If pain alone is enough to give you a reason to just keel over a die then perhaps you should cut your string of life right now.
I mean, whether you're dying from disease, in pain, or healthy, you're just going to die in the end anyway, right? Fuck, maybe I should have just killed myself when I broke my leg since that hurt like fuck. Those sadistic doctors made me live through the pain.
yeah, im a miserable cunt for not letting someone suffer massive pain. are you some kinda sadist that you prefer ppl suffering than beeing dead?
yeah, and many ppl dont do such ridiculous shit, so? I NEVER said that they are miserable for doing that (you learned reading in school right?). I blamed the parents for beeing so egoistic and letting the kid suffer 2 years of pain. you seem to shut down your rational part of the brain in such a situation, huh?
why should i cut my string of life right now? I already clearly said that I am not suffering any pain at all, your argumentation sucks hard, maybe reboot brain because its hung?
your last paraghraph is another example of brainless bullshit. let me get this right, you died because you broke your leg, right? you suffered 2 years of massive pain every day because you broke your leg, right? was your heart so touched by this story that it forgot to pump blood in your brain or why else do you post such obvious bullshit?
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United States43898 Posts
Both of you chill the fuck out.
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I think it would be a bit wierd to be getting cards and presents from people you've never met before :\
But if he enjoys it all is good. Christmas cards are expencive now too omfg, they used to be like 2$, now they're all like 7.50$ -_- if it was nov 9th i would sent card but, kinda late now isnt it?
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On November 26 2009 03:43 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2009 01:25 koreasilver wrote:
You're suffering from being a miserable cunt, which is perhaps worse than dying from terminal cancer. There are many people that give a lot and go through a lot to continue living even when they're dying from an incurable disease. Is it miserable for them to continue living even when they know their days are numbered? All of us have a limited time in the world. If pain alone is enough to give you a reason to just keel over a die then perhaps you should cut your string of life right now.
I mean, whether you're dying from disease, in pain, or healthy, you're just going to die in the end anyway, right? Fuck, maybe I should have just killed myself when I broke my leg since that hurt like fuck. Those sadistic doctors made me live through the pain. yeah, im a miserable cunt for not letting someone suffer massive pain. are you some kinda sadist that you prefer ppl suffering than beeing dead? yeah, and many ppl dont do such ridiculous shit, so? I NEVER said that they are miserable for doing that (you learned reading in school right?). I blamed the parents for beeing so egoistic and letting the kid suffer 2 years of pain. you seem to shut down your rational part of the brain in such a situation, huh? why should i cut my string of life right now? I already clearly said that I am not suffering any pain at all, your argumentation sucks hard, maybe reboot brain because its hung? your last paraghraph is another example of brainless bullshit. let me get this right, you died because you broke your leg, right? you suffered 2 years of massive pain every day because you broke your leg, right? was your heart so touched by this story that it forgot to pump blood in your brain or why else do you post such obvious bullshit?
At first I avoided responding to you posts, because I usually ignore ignorant posts.
However ill say one thing. The lack of pain is not the only thing that makes life worth living. Who the hell are you to judge the kid was suffering too much to enjoy being alive?
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On November 25 2009 20:15 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 16:51 Carthac wrote:
The poor kid died of cancer, and just so happened to get a following of people who wanted to go out of their way to make his passing a little easier, while giving the rest of the world a heartwarming story. how about let him die before those 2 years of pain? that would've saved him 2 years of pain with the exact same outcome. aka his passing would be extremly easier.
.....
You have 0 clue on how cancer as a disease works
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On November 26 2009 03:43 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2009 01:25 koreasilver wrote:
You're suffering from being a miserable cunt, which is perhaps worse than dying from terminal cancer. There are many people that give a lot and go through a lot to continue living even when they're dying from an incurable disease. Is it miserable for them to continue living even when they know their days are numbered? All of us have a limited time in the world. If pain alone is enough to give you a reason to just keel over a die then perhaps you should cut your string of life right now.
I mean, whether you're dying from disease, in pain, or healthy, you're just going to die in the end anyway, right? Fuck, maybe I should have just killed myself when I broke my leg since that hurt like fuck. Those sadistic doctors made me live through the pain. yeah, im a miserable cunt for not letting someone suffer massive pain. are you some kinda sadist that you prefer ppl suffering than beeing dead? yeah, and many ppl dont do such ridiculous shit, so? I NEVER said that they are miserable for doing that (you learned reading in school right?). I blamed the parents for beeing so egoistic and letting the kid suffer 2 years of pain. you seem to shut down your rational part of the brain in such a situation, huh? why should i cut my string of life right now? I already clearly said that I am not suffering any pain at all, your argumentation sucks hard, maybe reboot brain because its hung? your last paraghraph is another example of brainless bullshit. let me get this right, you died because you broke your leg, right? you suffered 2 years of massive pain every day because you broke your leg, right? was your heart so touched by this story that it forgot to pump blood in your brain or why else do you post such obvious bullshit?
you rang?
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I am more than surprised that this thread has not been closed yet.
=\
I don't really understand why people are arguing...
1. Pain sucks
2. Death sucks
3. Hearing that thousands of people are doing a little bit to make a little dying boy in pain happy?
....priceless
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On November 25 2009 20:45 dream-_- wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2009 17:45 old times sake wrote:
Do you worry that your support for this child has been too targeted to one child, and too cheap? I for one am donating a tithe of my income to help cure cancer. But then what about other diseases? It seems to never end.
So unless the point is to make yourself feel better, I really don't understand the "find" here that seems so viciously defended. Once you choose to think about things like this, a torrent of worse situations should come crashing down on you, making you some kind of triage doctor with only enough cash to save 0.000001% of the patients, less than that if you don't give up major parts of your expected standard of living (which is guiltily above the majority of the victims you emotionally want to take a bullet for). Bottom line, put yourself on the cross if that's your thing, or play the numbers game, but stopping so short as a card is really some form of emotional masturbation in my humble opinion, and I for one am more interested in the critical responses than the puppy-appreciation-like oos and awws.
Anyways, thanks for the opportunity to discuss this interesting topic. I look forward to more discussions on this site. If we live our perfect little life away from troubled people and difficult situations, we have a difficult time personifying any real cause. I think you show the two sides quite well, and rather than summarize what you said and obviously know yourself, I will simply say that the ideal 'gray area' of generosity is quite blurred. For those who have never donated anything, be it money, time or even blood, the simple step of sending a Christmas card can be a good step in the right direction.
I'm not sure of that. While it's possible that that first act of "giving", however pretend and self serving actually opens their heart, growing it two sizes larger (or whatever the Grinch reference would be), there are other theories to consider. For instance, perhaps their surrogate charity actually meets their need for giving such that they don't need to give any more. I think this was the theory I was worrying about the post you were responding to. I am not sure what goes on in anyone's head and would hate to make generalizations, but in my personal life I have come to believe that people in general will fool themselves and not make accurate judgments about their motives--especially when emotions are involved.
Do you agree with this generalization? And do you believe that this generalization seems to fit a good deal of the activity here? I don't mean to push, but this was the issue I tried to present. I don't want you to leap from "gray area" to "maybe it's good" without putting up a little more of a
First, you have to take into account that in the grand scheme of things (I do believe you mentioned that 0.000001%, however I would estimate it much smaller personally), how much are you really doing. And how much difference is it to donate a Christmas card, as apposed to a $30 installment.
While this was one of the arguments I presented, I am actually not sure if I buy this. I was "just sayin'." I'm not sure where the invalidity lies, but if you try to take this form of thinking to extremes it seems to either paralyze or demand everything for seemingly nothing. Clearly something must have gone wrong there. I don't know what the answer is. If you ask yourself, "Can I help more?" the answer is always "yes" until the point here you turn into some kind of super kind helpful homeless guy who works all day for nothing. Other people answer this situation by saying "well, I have to get my life in order--once I'm secure and successful I'll be able to do a lot more good than if I shoot myself in the foot now." While this may be practical if true, clearly most people never get to that point--your life is never settled and you're never getting where you hoped. But it did work for Bill Gates, right?
Second, it brings up the question of who is really the one being selfish. You mentioned 'emotional masturbation' but I believe that your term can be applied to anyone's generosity, because no matter what, your giving because it makes you feel good. If it made you feel shitty to help cure cancer I would suggest you have a different problem entirely.
This is the problem isn't it? Others' motivations are so easy to suspect and criticize. Many people might give to charity to compete with their neighbors, or for supernatural rewards. Are those good motives, or selfish ones? What about guilt, or pity? To the point, how exactly are we supposed to feel when we give so that it truly is a good action? People will conclude that it's not the motives that matter, but the results.
But then, a rich person gets more results than a poor person! They are better people then, because they can give more? Or else, is it what you give in proportion to what you can spare? Again, this seems to demand we give it all.
Thanks for the comments; I look forward to responses. 
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Apparently, wanting to be with your child is egoistic.
rofl this guy.
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On November 26 2009 11:06 Carthac wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2009 20:15 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:On November 25 2009 16:51 Carthac wrote:
The poor kid died of cancer, and just so happened to get a following of people who wanted to go out of their way to make his passing a little easier, while giving the rest of the world a heartwarming story. how about let him die before those 2 years of pain? that would've saved him 2 years of pain with the exact same outcome. aka his passing would be extremly easier. You have 0 clue on how cancer as a disease works
"ok, thanks for enlighting me"
On November 26 2009 15:21 koreasilver wrote:
Apparently, wanting to be with your child is egoistic.
rofl this guy.
after you posted so much obvious bullshit, you break it down to a single still questionable thing?
But again, you seem to have some kinda wall in front of your eyes, when it comes to displeasing situations. You laugh about me because I rather use my brain instead of blindly following curently practiced society models like you?
Yeah, it is fucking egoistic to let a child suffer because you can't let it go. If a pet is suffering you put it to sleep, right? Oh no, I forgot, you freaks wouldn't even do that, you bring it to all kinda vets to have it living a few months longer. I brought and will always bring my pets to the vet to put them to sleep if they are suffering (hit by car, cancer, seniority), because it's fucking egoistic of me to let it suffer because I can't cope with the thought that it is gone. My Gradnfather died of cancer, he has choosen to die in his house rather than enlength his life a few weeks/months. He has made this choice on his own (togheter with his wife), the kid on the opposite didn't have a fucking choice.
Humans, especially parents, tend to be extremly egoistic when it comes to such situations. There are so many examples of mothers who don't want to let their comatose children (no age limit) die. In some rare cases the children indeed come back from that coma, but still they are extremly handicapped then. In those cases it's not only an egoistic act towards the patient but also to all the other ppl in need of medical help with a much better chance of convalescence.
On November 26 2009 10:50 dream-_- wrote:
At first I avoided responding to you posts, because I usually ignore ignorant posts.
However ill say one thing. The lack of pain is not the only thing that makes life worth living. Who the hell are you to judge the kid was suffering too much to enjoy being alive?
Ignorant posts? What do I ignore? Isn't it much more like the other posts are ignorant, because they obviously skip on the egoistic part of such an action? Isn't it much more ignorant to only see the tiny chance for a cure, instead of accepting other models where the chance of dying is almost inevitable but you die in dignity at home with all your friends? Such models are actually practiced, but they are not as sensational, thats why you may not have heard of them.
Did I ever say that the lack of pain is the only thing that makes life worth living? Don't try to lay words into my mouth!
Who I am to judge whether the kid should be alive or dead? A not to closely related person to make blind egoistic decisions? Why the fuck do you think a judge can't handle his own case? Why do you think a doctor shouldn't medicate close relative in an emergency situation if there are other ppl with the same skills? Because you make irrational decissions, simple as that.
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Wow this is turning into a flame-war so fast.
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He's a dying 5 year old kid and he wants cards. Cmon TL seriously? Seriously?
I'm sure he's interested in a philosophical argument about some bullshit as all 5 year olds were especially ones with a month to live.
A card is 99 cents where you can buy groceries. It doesn't matter either way.
On November 09 2009 08:17 mrgerry wrote:
Never thought a thread with such a positive objective could get derailed so fast lol
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On November 26 2009 17:27 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
Did I ever say that the lack of pain is the only thing that makes life worth living? Don't try to lay words into my mouth!
That's pretty much what you make it sound like, champ.
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On November 26 2009 21:25 Captain Mayhem wrote:Show nested quote +On November 26 2009 17:27 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
Did I ever say that the lack of pain is the only thing that makes life worth living? Don't try to lay words into my mouth! That's pretty much what you make it sound like, champ.
only if someone is as stupid as you.
The lack of wheels on an ordinary car don't let you drive any further, but that doesn't make it the only attribute to get a car to bring you from A to B. You also need gaz, an engine, a chassis, etc.
So if you are in a tire shop, you don't talk about the engine with the vendor, you know, thats information encapsulation. You need to learn to interpret signals better to not jump to conclusions. Thats exactly laying words into someones mouth. You push your bad signalprocessing back onto me. Instead of taking the (in your opinion) lacking information neutral (there could be, there could be none, it could be bad, it could be good) you choose the one mostly suiting your desires and throw it back at me.
Dont blame me, if you can't talk about this subject in an objective manner. It is your feelings that misinterpret my words, not my "sound", because I can't make letter sound. But maybe you can explain to me, what exactly made my words look like I see the lack of pain as the only thing making a life worth of living.
You also completely ignore the communication media, source and sink. I'm not native english speaking, so how can you know that I'm not including anguish into pain when I talk about pain? In my language it's not separated. But you dare to jump to conclusions with interpreting a signal exactly when in reality it's distorted a lot by the media (internet, text) the source (me, f.e. my native tongue)the sink (you or everyone else, fe. filling information gaps).
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On November 26 2009 17:27 WhuazGoodJaggah wrote:
Humans, especially parents, tend to be extremly egoistic when it comes to such situations. There are so many examples of mothers who don't want to let their comatose children (no age limit) die. In some rare cases the children indeed come back from that coma, but still they are extremly handicapped then. In those cases it's not only an egoistic act towards the patient but also to all the other ppl in need of medical help with a much better chance of convalescence.
So basically you don't want to be taken seriously.
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EPT
