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On September 03 2009 13:50 Valentine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 10:44 snorlax wrote:
hence why screamo absolutely fails, death metal used to sound decent despite it not being to my taste but now its all about volume What exactly is it that makes screamo absolutely fail?
well what is good about screamo that other genres dont already do better?
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On September 03 2009 03:20 Hot_Bid wrote:
i thought this thread was about that game where you and a friend yell "penis" or some other vulgarity louder and louder in a public place until one person gives up
LMAO same, the title made me think that way.
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is awesome32281 Posts
On September 03 2009 09:50 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 09:47 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:31 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 09:17 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:09 skindzer wrote:On September 03 2009 08:54 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 08:15 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 07:39 Dewis wrote:
Seems like many don't actually get what this really is about. It's not about the volume the end-listener uses, but the dynamics in the music. When records are mastered as loud as possible, the tracks are run through a lot of compressors and limiters which eventually fuck up all the dynamics in music.
It's really funny if you listen to some band that has played for like 30 years. Use constant volume. Start listening to a song from the first album, then move on to the next album. At some point you'll see a drastic rise in the volume level. Eh. I guess I never noticed since I listen to genre's that either have very crisp production, or very coarse unadultered rapage (Black Metal). If you don't enjoy the production value then simply don't buy the album or listen to the music. No one is forcing you to pirate or purchase the music, simply look for music that fits your taste (Trust me, there is music out there for everyone). Besides, different production values at least in the music I listen to create a variance in the music that is appreciated... Thats not true, a lot of good music also gets affected by the loudness war. To give you one example, one of my favorite bands of all time, the red hot chili peppers, had one of their best albums (californication) COMPLETELY raped by a studio engineer. its one of my favorite albums of all time, but its also one of the most poorly mastered albums ever, making it almost unlistenable on any remotely decent audio system (unless loud static, clipping, and sibilance don't bother you). there is literally no good recording of that album available on the market I dont care if mainstream rap/pop/etc. goes to hell and becomes unlistenable, but I DO care when good bands get affected and are forced to release poorly recorded albums A lot of people buy CDs because they offer better sound quality than mp3s. If CDs start to sound like compressed pieces of crap, then why bother spending money when mp3s sound the same (or possibly even better, since the high frequency compression can sometimes mask poor mastering) Can you provide a way to compare? compare the sound quality of vocals/drums/guitars to any radiohead or RATM album, or, to a lesser extent, compare to an earlier redhotchilipeppers album (i.e. blood sugar sex magik) This is ridiculous. It's like asking someone to compare Burzum to Keep of Kalessin. Not every band has the same production value, nor should they. It's what differentiates them even within the same genre. Frankly, I don't notice the "loudness" factor, but I guess that's because of my tastes. Red Hot Chili Peppers is pop music, by the way. no its not ridiculous. this has nothing to do with budget. mastering too loud is like an artist spending money to REDUCE sound quality. except in reality, the artist often opposes the idea, but the record labels do it anyway because the whole loudness crap and i have no idea how you can possibly classify red hot chili peppers as "pop." theyre about as far away from pop as possible I classify just about everything that is mainstream as pop. Easily digestable, mass produced...mainstream, yeah pretty much pop. And yes, it is ridiculous. It's not about budget, its about the style of production. I'm glad you know exactly how the members of Red Hot Chili Peppers feel. To be honest I feel your beef is with the other instruments drowning out, say the Bass guitar for example. This isn't to do with "loudness" rather than a lack of focus on the backdrop of the music. This has been the case forever. Some bands forego this and focus on say, the lead guitar, some focus on the drums, etc. That's why I said each band has different production values, find the band that best suits you. It's like complaining about Children of Bodom synths overshadowing the bass guitar...Ridiculous, because the band isn't about the bass guitar.
![[image loading]](http://i44.tinypic.com/w6sj0o.jpg)
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Funny, I find myself technically agreeing with almost everything wangsta says on this thread, but the way he says it.. almost makes me think otherwise.
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From the Wikipedia page on Deadwing:
In a comment to the loudness war, Steven Wilson put a message on the record sleeve that reads as follows: "Please note that this record may not be mastered as loudly as some of the other records in your collection. This is in order to retain the dynamic range and subtlety of the music. Please, use your volume knob." Subsequent releases Fear of a Blank Planet and Nil Recurring are mastered at even lower levels, preserving more of their original dynamic range.
Steven Wilson is the man.
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On September 03 2009 14:00 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 13:50 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 10:44 snorlax wrote:
hence why screamo absolutely fails, death metal used to sound decent despite it not being to my taste but now its all about volume What exactly is it that makes screamo absolutely fail? well what is good about screamo that other genres dont already do better?
Just going to throw this part out here, here it comes:
+ Show Spoiler +
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Not a very catchy name for a war.
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On September 03 2009 09:50 Aegraen wrote:
This is ridiculous. It's like asking someone to compare Burzum to Keep of Kalessin.
Not every band has the same production value, nor should they. It's what differentiates them even within the same genre. Frankly, I don't notice the "loudness" factor, but I guess that's because of my tastes.
Watch the video in the OP. Some of the examples used in the video are DM bands like Terrorizer, Napalm Death, and Necrophagist.
I know some bands make their records sound like crap on purpose. Obviously, the Loudness War doesn't affect them as much. The problem with the War is that it basically sacrifices dynamic range, clarity, and overall character in favor of higher volume. Lower dynamic range also gives the artists LESS room to play around with their production style. You'll see what Wangsta means when you watch the vid.
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Solution: buy vinyl instead of CDs. Then get some kind of converter to transfer it to your computer/ipod.
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On September 03 2009 15:45 Valentine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 14:00 JohnColtrane wrote:On September 03 2009 13:50 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 10:44 snorlax wrote:
hence why screamo absolutely fails, death metal used to sound decent despite it not being to my taste but now its all about volume What exactly is it that makes screamo absolutely fail? well what is good about screamo that other genres dont already do better? Just going to throw this part out here, here it comes: + Show Spoiler +
i dont think so
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On September 03 2009 16:31 JohnColtrane wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 15:45 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 14:00 JohnColtrane wrote:On September 03 2009 13:50 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 10:44 snorlax wrote:
hence why screamo absolutely fails, death metal used to sound decent despite it not being to my taste but now its all about volume What exactly is it that makes screamo absolutely fail? well what is good about screamo that other genres dont already do better? Just going to throw this part out here, here it comes: + Show Spoiler + i dont think so
So who gives a fuck what you think, what I think, what anyone thinks of it. If people like the sound of it, then who gives a fuck, let them listen. I myself am more of an Indie guy, but depending on the mood, I sometimes prefer PHC. Reason being that I enjoy the sound of screaming. How are other genres "better" at that? I like something between Death Metal screaming/growling and regular singing. It feels more comfortable for me to listen to.
I still don't have an answer for what makes it absolutely fail, just you prancing in acting like a typical elitist douchebag and not really saying much at all.
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On September 03 2009 16:37 Valentine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 16:31 JohnColtrane wrote:On September 03 2009 15:45 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 14:00 JohnColtrane wrote:On September 03 2009 13:50 Valentine wrote:On September 03 2009 10:44 snorlax wrote:
hence why screamo absolutely fails, death metal used to sound decent despite it not being to my taste but now its all about volume What exactly is it that makes screamo absolutely fail? well what is good about screamo that other genres dont already do better? Just going to throw this part out here, here it comes: + Show Spoiler + i dont think so So who gives a fuck what you think, what I think, what anyone thinks of it. If people like the sound of it, then who gives a fuck, let them listen. I myself am more of an Indie guy, but depending on the mood, I sometimes prefer PHC. Reason being that I enjoy the sound of screaming. How are other genres "better" at that? I like something between Death Metal screaming/growling and regular singing. It feels more comfortable for me to listen to. I still don't have an answer for what makes it absolutely fail, just you prancing in acting like a typical elitist douchebag and not really saying much at all.
lets see
-typical boring rock harmony
-feeble girl screams compared to some styles of metal
-no skill or virtuosity in any of their playing
-copycat songwriting
how about you tell me some good points about it via pm, other than the inability to stay in key, because this is getting off topic
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On September 03 2009 16:17 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Solution: buy vinyl instead of CDs. Then get some kind of converter to transfer it to your computer/ipod.
not everything is released in vinyl, vinyl can suffer from bad mastering too, etc etc etc
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not to mention vinyl is pretty hard to find + good playback equipment is hilariously overpriced @_@
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This whole topic is negated by the fact that people can change the volume of the music -_-
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Germany / USA16648 Posts
On September 03 2009 19:50 Scaramanga wrote:
This whole topic is negated by the fact that people can change the volume of the music -_-
No it's not. Maybe you should try to understand it first
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On September 03 2009 16:05 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Not a very catchy name for a war.
OPERATION FREEEEEEEDOM
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On September 03 2009 10:08 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 09:59 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:50 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 09:47 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:31 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 09:17 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:09 skindzer wrote:On September 03 2009 08:54 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 08:15 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 07:39 Dewis wrote:
Seems like many don't actually get what this really is about. It's not about the volume the end-listener uses, but the dynamics in the music. When records are mastered as loud as possible, the tracks are run through a lot of compressors and limiters which eventually fuck up all the dynamics in music.
It's really funny if you listen to some band that has played for like 30 years. Use constant volume. Start listening to a song from the first album, then move on to the next album. At some point you'll see a drastic rise in the volume level. Eh. I guess I never noticed since I listen to genre's that either have very crisp production, or very coarse unadultered rapage (Black Metal). If you don't enjoy the production value then simply don't buy the album or listen to the music. No one is forcing you to pirate or purchase the music, simply look for music that fits your taste (Trust me, there is music out there for everyone). Besides, different production values at least in the music I listen to create a variance in the music that is appreciated... Thats not true, a lot of good music also gets affected by the loudness war. To give you one example, one of my favorite bands of all time, the red hot chili peppers, had one of their best albums (californication) COMPLETELY raped by a studio engineer. its one of my favorite albums of all time, but its also one of the most poorly mastered albums ever, making it almost unlistenable on any remotely decent audio system (unless loud static, clipping, and sibilance don't bother you). there is literally no good recording of that album available on the market I dont care if mainstream rap/pop/etc. goes to hell and becomes unlistenable, but I DO care when good bands get affected and are forced to release poorly recorded albums A lot of people buy CDs because they offer better sound quality than mp3s. If CDs start to sound like compressed pieces of crap, then why bother spending money when mp3s sound the same (or possibly even better, since the high frequency compression can sometimes mask poor mastering) Can you provide a way to compare? compare the sound quality of vocals/drums/guitars to any radiohead or RATM album, or, to a lesser extent, compare to an earlier redhotchilipeppers album (i.e. blood sugar sex magik) This is ridiculous. It's like asking someone to compare Burzum to Keep of Kalessin. Not every band has the same production value, nor should they. It's what differentiates them even within the same genre. Frankly, I don't notice the "loudness" factor, but I guess that's because of my tastes. Red Hot Chili Peppers is pop music, by the way. no its not ridiculous. this has nothing to do with budget. mastering too loud is like an artist spending money to REDUCE sound quality. except in reality, the artist often opposes the idea, but the record labels do it anyway because the whole loudness crap and i have no idea how you can possibly classify red hot chili peppers as "pop." theyre about as far away from pop as possible I classify just about everything that is mainstream as pop. Easily digestable, mass produced...mainstream, yeah pretty much pop. And yes, it is ridiculous. It's not about budget, its about the style of production. I'm glad you know exactly how the members of Red Hot Chili Peppers feel. To be honest I feel your beef is with the other instruments drowning out, say the Bass guitar for example. This isn't to do with "loudness" rather than a lack of focus on the backdrop of the music. This has been the case forever. Some bands forego this and focus on say, the lead guitar, some focus on the drums, etc. That's why I said each band has different production values, find the band that best suits you. It's like complaining about Children of Bodom synths overshadowing the bass guitar...Ridiculous, because the band isn't about the bass guitar. your definition of pop is ridiculous. using your definition, are you saying that pink floyd, metallica, tupac, etc. should all be considered pop? theyre just as "mainstream" as RHCP and no, its not about an instrument drowning out. its about there being extremely audible STATIC in anthony's voice (I mean literally static) and ridiculous sibilance in drum snares that makes their "cd quality" album sound like something off the radio. there is NOTHING wrong with making an album louder. there IS something wrong when you try to push volume PAST the maximum possible volume, and achieve that goal by using processes that degrade sound quality How do you know that isn't what they intended? Not every band, every genre, strives to achieve crisp production values. You seem to very much enjoy that album as referenced before, and even saying that every album has this, yet, it's one of your favorites. What does that tell you? If you don't enjoy the music, simply don't buy it. Not every band uses distortion in their production. Find one that has production values that fit your tastes..Frankly, I don't see the problem here, maybe that is because my tastes are in a realm where we understand the difference between production value and its effect on the music, creating distinctly different tones and moods. Yes, I consider them pop, just like Mars Volta and all the rest. There are so many bands that are like RHCP, mass produced. Pop isn't only confined to the Britney Spears of the world. Also, I'm going to PM you a song and I want you to tell me if "loudness war" plays a factor. Just to give you an idea how the production value dictates the direction the band wants to go in. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that it's a negative on the whole and that it somehow is going to end up in a society of deaf mutes, or hearing aid dependants because there is still something called the volume knob.
Loooooooooool, The Mars Volta is mainstream pop lololol
I actually kind of agreed with you, very many RHCP are pop rock in my opinion, some were more funk, some alternative, but some are pretty popish - but I still like them cause they are just much much better than all these silly pop bands who use the same melodies over and over again.
But Mars Volta? Lolol, they made some of the un-mainstream-friendly albums/songs ever.
So a 10 minute song that starts with 3 minutes of weird atmospheric noises on the radio is mainstream nowadays?? Ah, I see... if that's mainstream than Children Of Bodom sure as hell is the pinnacle of fucking sell out
+ Show Spoiler +
also what is up with this:
On September 03 2009 09:31 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2009 09:17 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 09:09 skindzer wrote:On September 03 2009 08:54 Wangsta wrote:On September 03 2009 08:15 Aegraen wrote:On September 03 2009 07:39 Dewis wrote:
Seems like many don't actually get what this really is about. It's not about the volume the end-listener uses, but the dynamics in the music. When records are mastered as loud as possible, the tracks are run through a lot of compressors and limiters which eventually fuck up all the dynamics in music.
It's really funny if you listen to some band that has played for like 30 years. Use constant volume. Start listening to a song from the first album, then move on to the next album. At some point you'll see a drastic rise in the volume level. Eh. I guess I never noticed since I listen to genre's that either have very crisp production, or very coarse unadultered rapage (Black Metal). If you don't enjoy the production value then simply don't buy the album or listen to the music. No one is forcing you to pirate or purchase the music, simply look for music that fits your taste (Trust me, there is music out there for everyone). Besides, different production values at least in the music I listen to create a variance in the music that is appreciated... Thats not true, a lot of good music also gets affected by the loudness war. To give you one example, one of my favorite bands of all time, the red hot chili peppers, had one of their best albums (californication) COMPLETELY raped by a studio engineer. its one of my favorite albums of all time, but its also one of the most poorly mastered albums ever, making it almost unlistenable on any remotely decent audio system (unless loud static, clipping, and sibilance don't bother you). there is literally no good recording of that album available on the market I dont care if mainstream rap/pop/etc. goes to hell and becomes unlistenable, but I DO care when good bands get affected and are forced to release poorly recorded albums A lot of people buy CDs because they offer better sound quality than mp3s. If CDs start to sound like compressed pieces of crap, then why bother spending money when mp3s sound the same (or possibly even better, since the high frequency compression can sometimes mask poor mastering) Can you provide a way to compare? compare the sound quality of vocals/drums/guitars to any radiohead or RATM album, or, to a lesser extent, compare to an earlier redhotchilipeppers album (i.e. blood sugar sex magik) This is ridiculous. It's like asking someone to compare Burzum to Keep of Kalessin. Not every band has the same production value, nor should they. It's what differentiates them even within the same genre.
Yeah it's totally ridiculous, its like comparing apples and bananas, its like comparing...
Oh wait, he asked you to compare RHCP to.... ... .. RHCP
can't be that ridiculous then huh?
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On September 03 2009 03:20 Hot_Bid wrote:
i thought this thread was about that game where you and a friend yell "penis" or some other vulgarity louder and louder in a public place until one person gives up
I'm sorry but this is awesome lol
oh the awkwardness
Anyways, I never really thought about a loudness war tbh and I don't really care. I'm not sure I even get the problem at hand but w/e I'm hung over
Btw children of bodom obviously turned to shit after Hatecrew deathroll, RHCP are one of the worst bands ever and screamo can kiss my ass.
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EPT
