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On December 30 2011 09:20 animol wrote:
Tried this game, but I didn't like the fact that you need to play through a song 100 times to learn it into your muscle memory until you can beat it. And that's basically all it is, just remembering what comes where next.
Quit now. Your ignorance annoys me.
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On December 30 2011 09:20 animol wrote:
Tried this game, but I didn't like the fact that you need to play through a song 100 times to learn it into your muscle memory until you can beat it. And that's basically all it is, just remembering what comes where next.
o_o that's not true at all.. unless you're playing with flashlight mod lol
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On December 30 2011 09:20 animol wrote:
Tried this game, but I didn't like the fact that you need to play through a song 100 times to learn it into your muscle memory until you can beat it. And that's basically all it is, just remembering what comes where next.
No offense but you clearly don't have the musical timing yet. I pass tons of songs with an S or higher on my first try while never hearing the songs before. Keep in mind I only play the hardest difficulty a song has to offer in every circumstance. I've played this way since I started.
Flashlight mod is the only time you'd ever need to memorize any pattern.
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On December 30 2011 10:00 ThaZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 09:20 animol wrote:
Tried this game, but I didn't like the fact that you need to play through a song 100 times to learn it into your muscle memory until you can beat it. And that's basically all it is, just remembering what comes where next. You're playing the wrong songs then. 99% of the songs in the game can be FC'd on the first try if you're good enough. If you just start, and play the hardest, longest, streamiest songs possible, you're doing it wrong. And yes, I'd imagine that would suck because you'd suck at that point too. You start with songs you can beat on the first try, i'd imagine 4 star songs, and work your way up like normal people. Find songs/styles of maps you like, and play those. If you don't like songs so hard you have to memorize them, don't play them, because not many people like them either.
I picked the most played song (Masayoshi Minoshima ft. nomico - Bad Apple!!) which was playable on easy difficulty level, insanely hard on normal. I don't know if that's the case for all songs, but that's what I expected and stopped playing. Anyway, thanks for the response, I might try it again with different songs.
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On December 30 2011 10:29 Yoshh wrote:Show nested quote +On December 30 2011 09:20 animol wrote:
Tried this game, but I didn't like the fact that you need to play through a song 100 times to learn it into your muscle memory until you can beat it. And that's basically all it is, just remembering what comes where next. o_o that's not true at all.. unless you're playing with flashlight mod lol
I kind of agree with animol, but not 100%. When I play, I can switch around between songs and get C's and maybe B's if I had a good round, but when I get to a song I like but cannot beat, I play it 40 or 50 times. By the end, it feels like I could do the first half of the song without even looking.
I understand there is a musical rhythm to the game, and speed and accuracy are important, but how does muscle memory not come into play? Idk maybe I'm just bad at the game and I'm rhythmically challenged, but I still feel like memory kind of kicks in after a while.
And what's the flashlight mod?
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while muscle memory certainly comes into play in that aspect, i'm pretty sure everyone is disagreeing with him because he essentially said "you have to play a map 100 times and memorize it in order to beat it," and that is most definitely false. to make matters worse he's basing his claim off of, from what i can tell, playing a single map from easy->normal
flashlight mod is where only a certain radius around your cursor is lit (as if it's where you're pointing your flashlight). the remainder of the playing field is black so memorizing the map is quite helpful
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That version of Bad Apple is bad anyways don't play it
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On December 30 2011 12:42 MegaManEXE wrote:
That version of Bad Apple is bad anyways don't play it
listen to this man.
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the thing about muscle memory is that you learn how you have to move your hand to get the response you need on the screen... this is why people take a dump in score / accuracy when they switch from mouse to tablet or change their sensitivity- because they have to relearn how the cursor reacts... it has nothing to do with memorizing a song
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without muscle memory you wouldn't be able to play most of the harder songs, because there are always jumps of similar distances or things like that. you couldn't FC those without muscle memory, because you'd have to aim for each circle one at a time instead of just inherently knowing how to move your mouse.
and lol... there's no need to play a song multiple times to memorize it. After a certain playcount (assuming you play average maps) you will have seen every single pattern that is commonly being used infinity times. Once that experience kicks in, you will FC (full-combo) insane maps on the first try like it was nothing (because it actually is nothing, since osu! is just a game of playcount and equipment but people dont accept that).
check this out because a) i can show off my awesomeness and b) it proves my point, as this was my 2nd play on this map:
+ Show Spoiler +
here is the map, only has an insane difficulty though D:
+ Show Spoiler +http://osu.ppy.sh/s/24104
SB aka bexy
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Ok, so I started off sucking at even easy maps. (like 0.5 star and 1 star easy maps...) Having had experience with music games before I already knew how to improve:
Play something that you can barely pass, or play something you can't pass, but can almost pass on nofail, keep playing lots of different maps at that level. Don't concentrate on passing 1 song, but instead play what you can, and occasionally practice harder stuff you can't quite get yet. Don't go too hard because that won't help you.
When I started osu I started downloading songs like mad. I got something like 500 maps in my first few days, and played everything I could. I was so bad even the easiest maps were hard for me. I had bad timing, and my mouse control was terrible.
But practicing the way I outlined earlier I was able to begin to learn different patterns, and began to get a feel for when to click based on the approach circles. I quickly learned that approach rates played a huge role for me. I've always hard trouble with slow approach rates (or slower speed settings on other music games) so I looked for songs that had faster approach rates, but patterns I could read. Soon I was able to anticipate the timings better and got a better feel for how the approach rates worked, which helped a lot.
It takes a bit of time to get into it, but once you begin getting a feel for the fundamental mechanics, it became much easier.
Of course, many of the people here are still better than I am, but I'm steadily improving the more I play. I started in march, and I'm ranked under 9000 overall... When I first noticed my rank I was ranked somewhere above 150,000th...
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I was going to make a rant about how wrong SexyBimbo still is on this issue, but instead I'll propose something.
Does a pianist practice fundamental moves on the piano over and over again to improve? In turn don't these pieces form songs? Bringing this argument up again and again is so pointless and we should ignore the two or three people raving about memorization.
As for knowing how far to move your mouse/pen to reach the next note is concerned...that's called improving. The better you are the more instinctual it becomes to play the game to the point where you are only limited to visual processing. This isn't memorizing, if it was then literally everything would just be memorization and skill wouldn't exist. A tennis player just 'memorizes' the correct stride length to make a running forehand, is this what you call memory? Because I call that a sick shot.
Let's get back to posting scores and ignore these guys.
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... muscle memory does play a role when you're playing patterns, that require you to move your mouse in the same manner several times like some mid range let-right jumps in rapid succession. I'd say thats muscle memory. That's not the same as sightreading and does not substitute it, if that's what you think I'm saying. oO
Let's get back to posting scores and ignore these guys.
Sure, stir up some hate against me; how kind of you. Besides what I'm more curious about than scores is whether or not we can get a teamliquid-multiplayer-lobby to work anytime soon =)
sincerely
SB
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On January 01 2012 01:25 SexyBimbo wrote:
... muscle memory does play a role when you're playing patterns, that require you to move your mouse in the same manner several times like some mid range let-right jumps in rapid succession. I'd say thats muscle memory. That's not the same as sightreading and does not substitute it, if that's what you think I'm saying. oO
I'm going to back this up tentatively, but add a small caveat. You don't have to have muscle memory to get okayish scores, but anything hard you're going to need to practice to get that muscle memory for jumps and spaced streams. For instance, I can use tablet (my main is mouse) and FC medium difficulty hard and insane maps even though I've only had a couple of hours total on tablet. The reason why players such as White Wolf and Cookiezi are godtier is not only because of this muscle memory, but also because of their consistency and sightreading.
Sure, stir up some hate against me; how kind of you. Besides what I'm more curious about than scores is whether or not we can get a teamliquid-multiplayer-lobby to work anytime soon =) sincerely SB
There have been multiple successful TL rooms in the past, but maybe I'm just too old.
Please keep the hate out of this thread ;-;
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seriously wtf, there's no TL multiplayer rooms anymore. how else can i embarrass myself by getting last place every map?!
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There have been multiple successful TL rooms in the past, but maybe I'm just too old.
Yup, I know there were some, but I've never been able to get in any >.<
Thus I'd like to keep track of them this time around!
happy new year teamliquid,
SB
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I wouldn't say it's necessarily muscle memory for learning patterns, but rather developing the ability to read and interpret those complex patterns and rhythms within a split second and being able to act on it. Some people develop that ability quicker than others. Again, I'll point to Cyclone - he still has 19k playcount and is better than 99.9% of osu players, including many who have double/triple/quadruple his playcount. The game just comes easier to some people than it does to others, I don't understand why this is a difficult thing to comprehend. Yes hardware matters a little and I'm sure muscle memory factors in a little, but personally I think osu is more a game of finger speed/strength, mouse control, and reaction time (a lot like how DDR is about leg speed/strength and reaction time). I've played thousands of beatmaps and I still run into patterns that I've never seen before but I can handle because I can read the patterns, it's not anything to do with me acting instinctively because the geometric shape or something is ingrained in my memory.
IMO people who come from IIDX/Stepmania/O2Jam backgrounds will likely have an easier time streaming and playing fast maps because of their finger dexterity; people who come from FPS backgrounds may have superior mouse control and can handle jumps easier; and people who have played any kind of rhythm game or fast-paced fighting/shooting/puzzle game may have better reaction time.
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i played this 2 months ago and im terrible at this game :/
my friend pwned me enough times, then i quited.
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Happy new years guys!
My 1 year progress:
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/c4sr)
Now 1st try FC :D
![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/c4su)
This is one of the maps that makes me really nervous at the end since it's the hardest part and I don't want to have to redo it if I miss ><
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today i realized how much the score screen bugs me when 300s are invis so i made some changes to my skin, primarily the ranking-panel:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/9NQSL.png)
end result:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zY6VA.jpg)
I FEEL SO SMART. :D
edit: don't hate on my plain gray
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EPT
