EPTOn March 24 2012 02:50 Body_Shield wrote:
Should ask Brutis who played in that tournament at Fanfest.
Should ask Brutis who played in that tournament at Fanfest.
Leeloo Malaquin, HaartSp and some RL friend apparently (zomg ringers)
EVE Corporation - Page 1028
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nonentity
160 Posts
Leeloo Malaquin, HaartSp and some RL friend apparently (zomg ringers) | ||
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On March 24 2012 03:19 nonentity wrote: Wut?! Yeh, Hawk is up there as one of the top tier AFs along with the vengeance and then just below them wolf/enyo depending on situation (wolf slightly above the enyo unless you can convince people to start in scram). Also, meta4 web/scram > T2. Don't automatically T2 fit everything. Especially not on a frigate. And Harpy is p average tbh, not bad just not great (poor gank, poor speed), although you can do some decent stuff 1v1 with it. (And 280 arty jag > all other ab AFs for lowsec duelling) Im not sure I quite understand, the harpy is average because all you can really do is 1v1, but the hawk is top tier ? The only place for a hawk imo where it truly shines is 1v1 lowsec, thats about it, the dps is crap, the speed is crap, all it has going for it is so many mids that you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want to kite another frig, its a king of lowsec 1v1 against turret based ship. As far as my actual comment on the harpy being OP, it is not my personnal opinion, just what ive heard around a lot, mainly because it can rack up a full row of neutrons with a 12k ehp tank and a web, which is pretty sick. In any case, lowsec frigate pvp is so so so different from nullsec frig pvp that I dont think we can compare the two, they are litterally two completely apart categories, with only a few ships being able to shine in both (eg arty wolf) | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
The example used was the Prophacy is basically only a bait ship, so why not change it to continue the Arbitrator's abilities up a ship size. So with that, one of the caldari battlecruisers would become a jamming ship I guess, instead of being useless. | ||
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nonentity
160 Posts
On March 24 2012 04:11 TurpinOS wrote: Im not sure I quite understand, the harpy is average because all you can really do is 1v1, but the hawk is top tier ? No the Harpy is average due to the poor gank and speed. Literally what I said. The 1v1 comment was that you can make it slightly better tiered with some dedicated duelling fits. On March 24 2012 04:11 TurpinOS wrote: The only place for a hawk imo where it truly shines is 1v1 lowsec, thats about it, the dps is crap, the speed is crap, all it has going for it is so many mids that you can pretty much do whatever the fuck you want to kite another frig, its a king of lowsec 1v1 against turret based ship. Yes, you can do some slightly silly 1v1 ewar stacked fits in the hawk, but honestly, they're fairly beatable (arty jag son, so good). One of the massive advantages of the hawk is that with dual webs you can use rage rockets and apply their full damage anywhere within web range (207 before heat, that's pretty damn high when you don't have to deal with tracking or falloff) as well as easily fitting a decent buffer tank. On March 24 2012 04:11 TurpinOS wrote: As far as my actual comment on the harpy being OP, it is not my personnal opinion, just what ive heard around a lot, mainly because it can rack up a full row of neutrons with a 12k ehp tank and a web, which is pretty sick. But if you do that it doesn't really gain range control vs anything with a web and you lose a lot of dmg to be able to fit that tank. Just, kinda average. On March 24 2012 04:11 TurpinOS wrote: In any case, lowsec frigate pvp is so so so different from nullsec frig pvp that I dont think we can compare the two, they are litterally two completely apart categories, with only a few ships being able to shine in both (eg arty wolf) Well yes, nullsec is far more splitting apart gangs and ganking down the front runners, something the more tank focussed harpy hardly excels at (while the dual web hawk can generally gank something down faster or disengage if forced to due to the excellent range control). Lowsec is more finessed range control and ewar within 1v1s, something the harpy doesn't really excel at due to the poor speed (altho it is possible to do some interesting things with either rails or dual web blasters) Like I said, kinda average really. Oh, and arty wolf in lowsec. I too fly fotm without realising it's strengths and weaknesses (it's not good at 1v1s and the less 1vBLOB nature of lowsec if you're fighting any competent pilot). o\ | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
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TurpinOS
Canada1223 Posts
On March 24 2012 05:02 nonentity wrote: No the Harpy is average due to the poor gank and speed. Literally what I said. The 1v1 comment was that you can make it slightly better tiered with some dedicated duelling fits. The gank on the harpy is one of the highest in the game, bar the enyo, not too sure what youre on in there, especially since you can fit a full rack of neutrons which means you get some really really nice range with Null on top of very good tracking. It doesnt have the greatest speed but that itself is not enough to make it average, it flat out stomps pretty much any brawling frig except an enyo or some super boosting linked/implanted frig On March 24 2012 05:02 nonentity wrote: Yes, you can do some slightly silly 1v1 ewar stacked fits in the hawk, but honestly, they're fairly beatable (arty jag son, so good). One of the massive advantages of the hawk is that with dual webs you can use rage rockets and apply their full damage anywhere within web range (207 before heat, that's pretty damn high when you don't have to deal with tracking or falloff) as well as easily fitting a decent buffer tank.. You can apply full rage dps with a single web, this is not the reason you dual web it, you dual web because all short ranged turret frigs in the game cant do dps at 14k. The armor lowsec hawk fits 2webs and a TD, which means you also wont do any damage with your arty jag to it at a safe range, and if you ever get within 14k youre fucked. Also 207 dps is really not that high for an AF. On March 24 2012 05:02 nonentity wrote: But if you do that it doesn't really gain range control vs anything with a web and you lose a lot of dmg to be able to fit that tank. Just, kinda average. My above figure of 12k ehp was with a single MSE, so you do have a web, so no, you dont lose anything. edit : its actually 14k ehp On March 24 2012 05:02 nonentity wrote: Well yes, nullsec is far more splitting apart gangs and ganking down the front runners, something the more tank focussed harpy hardly excels at (while the dual web hawk can generally gank something down faster or disengage if forced to due to the excellent range control). Lowsec is more finessed range control and ewar within 1v1s, something the harpy doesn't really excel at due to the poor speed (altho it is possible to do some interesting things with either rails or dual web blasters) Like I said, kinda average really. Oh, and arty wolf in lowsec. I too fly fotm without realising it's strengths and weaknesses (it's not good at 1v1s and the less 1vBLOB nature of lowsec if you're fighting any competent pilot). o\ Have you even ever flown a hawk in nullsec ? You cant gank shit with that pityful dps, youll have the whole gang on your ass before youve even put a dent on the shield of a frig, its really a pathetic ship to do that job, while the harpy, thanks to its great dps, can easily just blast the hell out of a frig then get out, you have these things completely inverted. Range control really doesnt matter (that much) in nullsec when you have 30 guys on you, what you need to do is kill that single person before the 29 others get in range, shit dps doesnt help you do that. Lowsec on the other hand is all about range control, something the harpy can do with ab+ web, but is obviously not ideal against something like a kiting dual web + ab hawk. Arty wolf is perfectly fine in low just like a slicer always was, since everyone is flying ab+ scram, just need to know how to fly. I really dont know where you fly in lowsec but 1vBLOB is very much more nullsec then lowsec, low is pretty much always 1v1 frigs or 1v2. Just so happens that if you know how to fly a wolf you can do what you want with it. | ||
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Zedd Althor
United States67 Posts
On March 24 2012 05:02 nonentity wrote: Oh, and arty wolf in lowsec. I too fly fotm without realising it's strengths and weaknesses (it's not good at 1v1s and the less 1vBLOB nature of lowsec if you're fighting any competent pilot). o\ I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the arty wolf. It performs very well when properly fit. It has better speed and range than any other af, which makes it perfect for 1v1 or 1v blob. Proof http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12504781 for this fight there was also a slicer, but he was able to disengage. How do you fit your arty jag? | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On March 24 2012 05:31 Zedd Althor wrote: I'm going to have to disagree with your assessment of the arty wolf. It performs very well when properly fit. It has better speed and range than any other af, which makes it perfect for 1v1 or 1v blob. Proof http://teamliquid.killmail.org/?a=kill_related&kll_id=12504781 for this fight there was also a slicer, but he was able to disengage. How do you fit your arty jag? how the hell you took down those 3 with your wolf? I mean the jaguar is much faster than the wolf so it can't be that you kited them somehow. (I am noob btw, so sorry if I said something noobish) | ||
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
its the wolf's fight to lose | ||
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DiracMonopole
United States1555 Posts
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Zedd Althor
United States67 Posts
On March 24 2012 06:06 Roflhaxx wrote: how the hell you took down those 3 with your wolf? I mean the jaguar is much faster than the wolf so it can't be that you kited them somehow. (I am noob btw, so sorry if I said something noobish) I use double nano on my wolf so it has a base speed of 3.2K before links; a MWD, shield fit jag without a nano has a base speed of 2.6k, so its very easy to kite as long as you don't screw up. In that fight, I killed the jag before his friends arrived so I was able to warp out, rep heat damage and regenerate the small amount of damage i took from screwing up and getting scrammed. I then warped back in at range and separated them so i could kill them 1 at a time. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On March 24 2012 07:59 abominare wrote: for those interested the dust fanfest panel on battlefield roles is starting in a couple mins http://fanfest.eveonline.com/en/stream/free Oh yeah that one, they say some interesting stuff. Make sure you see the Quiz show (hilarity ensured) I can spoil that one of them tries to answer a question by talking about freezing down a used condom, climbing ontop of a cupboard and then throw it. | ||
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abominare
United States1216 Posts
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Mandini
United States1717 Posts
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Risen
United States7927 Posts
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419
Russian Federation3631 Posts
Welcome to EC- BR coming soon(TM) if I can be arsed | ||
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Reborn8u
United States1761 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4vZ7B.jpg) | ||
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Body_Shield
Canada3368 Posts
These might be the most retarded ideas ever made. Edit: None of this will work, it will all collapse and take the rest of us to the depths of the earth forever. | ||
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Invol2ver
United States330 Posts
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