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On February 06 2010 04:54 Kwidowmaker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2010 18:38 number1gog wrote:On February 03 2010 19:40 Ace wrote:
damn wtf happened? I used to follow this thread but I'm gonna guess GS got wiped out in like...1 month by 2 super alliances? Wiped out by their own stupidity. Forgot to pay the sov bill, lost control of their system assets, overrun by opportunistic enemy alliances, threw in the towel without much of a fight. That's completely accurate, but I don't like analyses like this. It's a game who cares :S
That last part is just a weird thing to say on TL.net
Analysis is indeed the wrong word for what info can be found on the various eve related forums. But diagnosing a vitamin-d deficiency by battle report is frowned upon in the medical establishment.
Here's my attempt at an Eve analysis:
Dominion is fucked. You can't have a proper blob vs blob fight. Shit gets blown up, enemies are to blame. Eve is a bad game.
Okay, bad attempt.
Anyways, for entertainment a cartoon to perfectly capture the situation between -A-(&co) vs CVA
+ Show Spoiler +
And a goon banner following Karttoon's stunt.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Well somethin totally random anyone seen clear skies 1,2 and
teh bloopers :D
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On February 06 2010 14:21 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Chess is also a game. Is it wrong to thoroughly analyze possibly one of the best models we have of factors affecting enthusiasm and participation? It's interesting stuff.
It's not the analysis I have a problem with - I said it was completely accurate - it's that it feels jingoistic. Now I think I imagined it, but I saw goon resentment in that summary. Please excuse me for that, there's been a lot in the past few pages.
As for your comparison with chess analysis, I don't think any meaningful connection exists. Superficially, yes, we have people who know the game commenting and making predictions. However, there's, I think, three key differences. One, EVE is far more ambiguous and intricate than chess, so it is impossible to take a detailed look at past events. What we are left with is battle reports by vitamin-D deficient jingoists and sov maps. Two, every method of prediction and analysis seems to rely in part on some kind pseudo-psychology, and there is no one with any kind of expertise giving analysis. In my mind the chief populariser for analysis of 0.0 warfare is the Mitanni, and his knowledge of psychology extends as far as 3 books and a college course. Three, there's no objective frame of reference. The only people who know half a shit at the very least about 0.0 politics and warfare are the ones who are engaged in it. Chess analysis is something that comes centuries of tradition of third party analysis, whereas EVE 0.0 analysis is really bad fan-fic
Regarding predictions and analysis.
There are statistics in the form of killboards. Even though they are not 100% reliable, there are often indications of what has happened, and what will happen in the the event of a war.
EDIT: Bad quote.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
You know, I remember reading the OP a year ago, with no knowledge of EVE whatsoever, and being fascinated by all the various alliances on the influence map. I thought to myself, wow there must be tons of conflicts going on with all these alliances bordering each other! =D Like the northeast part, for example: there must be lots of fighting going on with all those pockets of territory!
In retrospect, I should have been a lot more disappointed when I learned everyone was NAP'd with their neighbours except for ~3 places. 
It's even worse, now, with the only significant 0.0 fighting taking place in Providence. *rolleyes*
From a spectating point of view, Dominion sucks. No epic fleet battles due to lag, and stupid rules for capturing station systems. I mean, it must be nice that people don't have to grind through hundreds of POSes anymore, and maybe if IHUBs and Stations had only 1 reinforcement timer each, like a POS, then taking someone else's territory wouldn't be such a ridiculous task. =P
At this rate, I'm probably going to stop following EVE, at least until CCP fixes this nonsense.
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Well all it takes is one little incident to start wars all over the place once again. I wonder what the news is with GoonWaffe or w/e it was called and where is ZA in all of this.
And where the hell is the Peace Treaty feature CCP?!
EDIT: Nevermind:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1263752
BoB declared war against SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO.
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On February 07 2010 03:12 kuresuti wrote:Show nested quote +On February 06 2010 14:21 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Chess is also a game. Is it wrong to thoroughly analyze possibly one of the best models we have of factors affecting enthusiasm and participation? It's interesting stuff.
It's not the analysis I have a problem with - I said it was completely accurate - it's that it feels jingoistic. Now I think I imagined it, but I saw goon resentment in that summary. Please excuse me for that, there's been a lot in the past few pages.
As for your comparison with chess analysis, I don't think any meaningful connection exists. Superficially, yes, we have people who know the game commenting and making predictions. However, there's, I think, three key differences. One, EVE is far more ambiguous and intricate than chess, so it is impossible to take a detailed look at past events. What we are left with is battle reports by vitamin-D deficient jingoists and sov maps. Two, every method of prediction and analysis seems to rely in part on some kind pseudo-psychology, and there is no one with any kind of expertise giving analysis. In my mind the chief populariser for analysis of 0.0 warfare is the Mitanni, and his knowledge of psychology extends as far as 3 books and a college course. Three, there's no objective frame of reference. The only people who know half a shit at the very least about 0.0 politics and warfare are the ones who are engaged in it. Chess analysis is something that comes centuries of tradition of third party analysis, whereas EVE 0.0 analysis is really bad fan-fic Regarding predictions and analysis. There are statistics in the form of killboards. Even though they are not 100% reliable, there are often indications of what has happened, and what will happen in the the event of a war. EDIT: Bad quote.
You're right there are more statistics and information available that what I said, but I still contend that it's not enough to put together an accurate picture. Also, how important are they? I think that the losses on most killboards are easily replaced.
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It isn't easy to have a clear picture of what is going on, I'll give you that, but in my opinion that is not because of a lack of information, but because of an excess of information. There is so much trolling and asshattery going on in 0.0 politics discussion that it's practically impossible to know exactly what is going on.
It is possible to have a clear view if one wishes to start sorting the grains of truth from the heaps of lies. I know I wouldn't thought
Regarding the NAP trains.
Yes, it sucks, but Dominion was supposed to bring in more entities into 0.0 i.e more conflicts, for some reason that has yet to happen (I am not educated in the mechanics of sov holding, so I might be missing a reason).
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On February 07 2010 04:06 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Well all it takes is one little incident to start wars all over the place once again. I wonder what the news is with GoonWaffe or w/e it was called and where is ZA in all of this. And where the hell is the Peace Treaty feature CCP?! EDIT: Nevermind: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1263752BoB declared war against SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO.
That's not BoB: that's karttoon's alliance.
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
On February 07 2010 04:53 kuresuti wrote:
Yes, it sucks, but Dominion was supposed to bring in more entities into 0.0 i.e more conflicts, for some reason that has yet to happen (I am not educated in the mechanics of sov holding, so I might be missing a reason).
I was just thinking about this, while reading New Eve Rules 2010 Part 1 - Having and defending your sov space makes you weak.
In addition to the new sovereignty system, CCP basically made 2 changes: they made it pointless to hold large amounts of space, and they balanced out the distribution of resources in 0.0 by nerfing prom and dyspro moons and adding space upgrades.
As a result of these changes, there is no longer any tangible benefit to conquering another alliance's territory. You might get fun fights, and the joy of winning, but these are fleeting when you realize you have accomplished nothing of value.
Obviously, if taking and holding another alliance's space only spreads you thinner without giving you any benefit (due to the increased cost of holding space and the decreased output of moons), then no one will want to attempt any epic crusades of conquest.
Furthermore, having an imbalanced 0.0 is a very good thing -- if anything, it should've been made more imbalanced. The higher-valued regions become targets. It gives the large # of players living in shitty regions a real, tangible motivation to conquer other territory. Now, the difference between the best and worst regions is much smaller, and not nearly as motivating as it was when highends were so valuable.
Thus, on the large scale of 0.0 strategy and warfare, the game is only getting more boring and stagnant.
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On February 07 2010 08:13 Bill307 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2010 04:53 kuresuti wrote:
Yes, it sucks, but Dominion was supposed to bring in more entities into 0.0 i.e more conflicts, for some reason that has yet to happen (I am not educated in the mechanics of sov holding, so I might be missing a reason). stuff
We won't really know which region is the new delve until the moon min market corrects itself. What we do know is that with the new alchemy and r64 nerfs, there's gonna be a lot more stuff for t2 production, which is good if you're thinking years ahead when EVE might have twice the amount of people playing. In any case, EVE is transitioning from a super niche "lol pos spam, lol red penning, lol RMT" game for neckbeards, into a zomg crowded "everyone gets to do shit" game with three MASSIVE changes to its gameplay coming soon. We know incarna is coming, we know dust 514 is gonna hit us soon, we know planetary interaction will be huge; what I see ccp doing is making it so that literally everyone is accounted for. Empire noobs/pubbies, renters, ratters, pirates, industrialists, scammers, explorers will have more to do. Now if only CCP knew how to code...
Also, according to some devs, using python to code EVE was a terrible mistake. Something about every node running on a single thread or other...
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Dominion is going to bring more people to 0.0, just like ccp intended. Sadly it's not going to be more pvp people, but carebear corps that get blue standings so they can rat in 0.0 because with the new system upgrades thing it makes ratting very safe, very hi sec like, only more profitable and with no can flipping. The pvp alliance just lives off the taxes.
Bottom line? More people in 0.0 that stay aligned to a pos ina system and safe up as soon as a neut comes into local. Invasion and aquring new space is pretty pointless now since any system with decent upgrades gives rufly the same amount of isk, only that new shit demans a larger isk investment. The only reason I see any wars happening in the near future is retardation(see -a- vs cva) and old grudges(bob vs goons). All under the fames reason of ~goodfights~ (read: blobing you out and raping you while you don't even load grid).
Tl,dr: Moon income sucks, carebears are good.
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On February 07 2010 08:55 bN` wrote:
Dominion is going to bring more people to 0.0, just like ccp intended. Sadly it's not going to be more pvp people, but carebear corps that get blue standings so they can rat in 0.0 because with the new system upgrades thing it makes ratting very safe, very hi sec like, only more profitable and with no can flipping. The pvp alliance just lives off the taxes.
Bottom line? More people in 0.0 that stay aligned to a pos ina system and safe up as soon as a neut comes into local. Invasion and aquring new space is pretty pointless now since any system with decent upgrades gives rufly the same amount of isk, only that new shit demans a larger isk investment. The only reason I see any wars happening in the near future is retardation(see -a- vs cva) and old grudges(bob vs goons). All under the fames reason of ~goodfights~ (read: blobing you out and raping you while you don't even load grid).
Tl,dr: Moon income sucks, carebears are good.
Cant large pvp alliances fight for space to rent out to smaller alliances?
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Level 4 missions still give better isk than doing the anomalies
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On February 07 2010 09:04 pahndah wrote:
Level 4 missions still give better isk than doing the anomalies
I haven't found that to be true... they generally give comparable amounts of isk and I AFK run in a golem on one account and actively pay attention to a CNR on another.
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I have read through like half of all of the posts on this thread... and having never played EVE I have absolutely no understanding of any of the acronyms or jargon going along with the game... basically to me this makes EVE sound more complicated than any other mmo, including the massive ones like WoW and stuff with have thousands of unique terms, alot of which I can understand....
Basically I have no idea why I am writing this and why you the reader should care but answer me this: Did one big alliance get mad at another smaller alliance that they underestimated and then found out that this smaller alliance had the means to take them down and then after this time has passed both alliances are gone, turned to dust?
It sounds like classic Hamlet to me... talking about Alexander and how he conquered half the world, only to die and leave behind a few towns named after himself.
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On February 08 2010 17:15 Traveler wrote:
I have read through like half of all of the posts on this thread... and having never played EVE I have absolutely no understanding of any of the acronyms or jargon going along with the game... basically to me this makes EVE sound more complicated than any other mmo, including the massive ones like WoW and stuff with have thousands of unique terms, alot of which I can understand....
Basically I have no idea why I am writing this and why you the reader should care but answer me this: Did one big alliance get mad at another smaller alliance that they underestimated and then found out that this smaller alliance had the means to take them down and then after this time has passed both alliances are gone, turned to dust?
It sounds like classic Hamlet to me... talking about Alexander and how he conquered half the world, only to die and leave behind a few towns named after himself.
There are rarely wars between a big alliance and small alliance, since most wars put one group of alliances versus another group.
Smaller alliances band together to make bigger entitites, you may have read about Providence or Stainwagon, both of which consist of groups of alliances with similar goals.
Most of the posts here are probably about Goons vs BoB (I haven't read the thread).
It basically went down like this:
Goons invade Band of Brothers, Band of Brothers alliance is disbanded, Goons steal the Band of Brothers name and create an alliance, this new BoB is merely a "haha" at the old BoB and doesn't actually have any power, Goons power is still the Goonswarm alliance.
A year passes.
Old BoB corporations have banded together and created the IT Alliance. Stuff happens and they invade Goon space, and takes it over. Stuff happens internally in the Goonswarm alliance, it is disbanded and Goon members create new alliances, two of them I think, a new one and they made the old "stolen" Band of Brothers alliance active. They have fled 0.0 temporarily, and this is the present day.
0.0 is the area of space which players can control, named 0.0 because the security rating of the system is 0.0, meaning no law enforcement of any kind.
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There's a short interview with Darius Johnson over at massively.com. The article itself is not very informative, especially for people who've been following recent developments, but the smallish interview has some pointed thoughts about Karttoon.
Overview of current "Goon" alliances:
- GoonSwarm [OHGOD]: The former alliance only has 13 members left, most of which are probably Karttoon alts.
- Band of Brothers [MOLLE]: The Goon-born parody of SirMolle's alliance currently houses the original GoonFleet corporation with 950 members. Alliance and corp are both held by Karttoon.
- SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO [LODRA]: This new alliance currently holds Darius Johnson's GoonWaffe, a corp where many Goons flocked to after the disbanding of the Swarm, along with other former Goon corps such as DarkStar 1 and Merch Industrial.
- GOONS IN SPACE [FKGNS]: Used to hold a few Goony corps before LODRA was formed. Notice the ticker. Goons really enjoy self-parody.
Karttoon's Band of Brothers and Darius Johnson's SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO have now declared war to each other. (Thx for the link StealthBlue.) GoonFleet and GoonWaffe members are joking about a Night of the Long Knives. Band of Brothers members act all self-righteous and pompous in parody of their former namesakes, and SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO members act as obnoxious as humanly possible.
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Lol I read this too a year ago when goonswarm was invading bob space and bob fled from 0.0 So appearently now bob did it the other way around? So bob is still the big winner after all and goonswarm (something aweful) has done a lot of nothing?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq204/AlexClomsaver/cva.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/245/kartoonisanime.jpg)
