EPTseems like a trend
Former Top SC player wins 5 mil in poker - Page 3
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
seems like a trend | ||
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dream-_-
United States1857 Posts
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Diude
Canada124 Posts
But other than that, winning makes me feel good  | ||
Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On November 12 2008 03:38 floor exercise wrote: I glanced over it and it's an overview of bankroll management and comparing climbing the skill ranks in SC to Poker. I'm also being attacked for comparing SC to Poker simultaneously, so no matter what I say I'm wrong because I'm apparently arguing 2 different things. Saying I wasn't gonna read it was an asshole thing I admit but what I would like is to no longer be involved in a poker argument because I think I was misunderstood to begin with. All I was saying in the first place is that being good at poker isn't something that can be achieved over night and to see someone win a big cash tournament and think you will easily do the same is a terrible attitude considering the reality of online poker is that it's a soulless grind You are absolutely right that poker isn't an easy game and that tournament wins like this aren't won just by playing some overnight poker. It takes a lot of hard work but I'm not sure where your argument is. Are you saying it's risky or that poker is hard? Because I think we can agree on the fact that poker is hard. Fact of the matter is however, anyone with some discipline and half a brain can win at stakes up to 200NL if they're willing to work for it. After that it actually becomes harder. Anyone that takes poker competitively will beat the recreational player who doesn't care about the money and that's why when you put in a lot of work you can earn a decent living out of poker. My 'essay' was to counter the whole risk argument. Yeah there are some degenerates who consistently put their paycheck on the internet and play on stakes WAY higher than their bankroll allows but when you're smart about it you shouldn't ever have to risk a dime of your own well-earned money by building up your bankroll from scratch. I wrote an article for starting players in online poker and I'll quote myself in this passage: Poker is being hyped everywhere nowadays. More and more players are starting to pick up this game because by many it’s considered a game where money is easily made. If you have that mindset you should probably throw it out of the window right now. Another misconception that’s often made is that poker is mostly a game that revolves around who has the most luck at the table. This may be true when you play a homegame and play like 200 hands on the entire evening, because the better player might just get a run of bad cards and lose to a lesser player at that given moment. Now imagine that the same players play that same homegame with the same stakes a thousand times; meaning they have played a total of 200.000 hands. Obviously over a large sample of hands, the luck factor disappears and the player with the most amount of skill should statistically be the biggest winner in this game. Poker is an insanely complex game with a numerous amount of factors that you can learn and improve in to ultimately become the best player in your environment. Pretty much the introduction to my article which I wrote around 1,5 year ago. I think you were right that you were misunderstood though. Thing is, poker seems easy by players who are used to the grind like Loco (Hollow here) because they have put in a lot of hours. They didn't make money at the start (just building up their bankroll) and it takes a good year or more to get good at poker and start making decent money for most. If you want to start out with poker you want to enjoy the game and enjoy evaluating your play and you shouldn't view it as a game where you will make a lot of money. Just see it as laddering on SC and getting points for playing good or w/e. That should be the reward at first with poker anyway. | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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HaiVan
Bulgaria1698 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/9953/ivantq7.jpg) | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
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GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
On November 12 2008 04:25 dream-_- wrote: wow allot of people dont know much about poker/bankroll management. It's a higher level topic for poker, that only starts making sense when you have a ton of money to play with. | ||
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
Poker is hard, but it's only as risky as you want it to be as long as you are disciplined. I don't like to play with more than 1% of my money on the table because it makes me feel uncomfortable and I don't like to move down to a lower limit when I lose a few big pots. You also don't have to win the WSOP in order to enjoy poker.. going slowly from 0.01/0.02 to 0.10/0.25 & learning as you move along is fun, just like scbw laddering. It also makes you realise how the same kind of risk versus reward is really everywhere around you. | ||
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
"It can make me money, poker owns i'm going to play everyday now" <- some people seem to say this before they've even given it a shot, I don't like that "It involves gambling, I'll never come near it" <- this is the opposite and also kind of silly imo just play if you enjoy the game itself (not the money aspects) and don't if you don't, just like in bw | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
But if you want to talk about the risk of poker we can. The reality of online poker is that it's a fulltime job. The opportunity cost of playing poker is that you're 'playing' 10 hours a day (I saw datamined numbers a year or two back where it had rek playing an avg of 12 hours a day for 3+ months) while doing that you're not getting an education, you're not gaining any appreciable work experience. You're HOPEFULLY making money, but in reality you might not be. Has anyone bothered to look at the economics of poker. Where does the money that winners get come from? It's impossible for it to be some self contained, zero sum pool of money where winnings and losings can be completely explained away by variance. Then no one would win anything in the end. So obviously money gained by one person is money lost by another. For every winner of 5 million dollars, there's an equal sum of 5 million lost. It's lost over any number of people and that mitigates the loss to an extent. Tourney play really exemplifies that, for there to be 10 winners there's however many people who lose their $10,000. Fortunately, 10k typically means nothing to them. I'm not trying totake the moral road and say blah blah you're making money off other people, that's retarded and if someone loses their money playing poker it's their fault entirely. But the reality is for there to be people who can make a living off poker, there has to be people who cannot make a living off it. We can hope those are mostly lawyers and doctors with lots of expendable income but it's not always so. So to think or suggest anyone can be a winner, and anyone can succeed at poker, is fundamentally wrong. Please don't misconstrue anything I'm saying as some public service announcement against poker. I think it's cool, I watch a lot of poker shows. I think it's a respectable living I just don't see where the absolute guarantee that you're going to make money if you put your time into poker comes from. Not everyone has the skill or the brains to be maximizing the value of every hand over a billion tables at once. We'd like to think we are all smart enough to succeed but it's just not reality. If I need clarification on anything, it's that. | ||
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the.dude
United States16 Posts
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GroT
Belgium3003 Posts
"The reality of online poker is that it's a fulltime job." what? If you want it to be then yes it can be, but seriously you can play two hours once a week. No one will say "Hold it right there son, you're not playing 10 hours /day..." and it's a game, not a job | ||
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
It should always be about fun, not about making money, when you start out. | ||
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Archaic
United States4024 Posts
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Twisted
Netherlands13554 Posts
On November 12 2008 05:45 Archaic wrote: Good poker players scare me. I talk to this guy and he says something along the lines of him being worth 20-30 million. Then he goes on to talk about how he goes out to play poker with his friends. Then he says "I was the little man in the group. Everyone there was worth at least 50 million" -_-... So scary. Ehm. I'm sure he was exaggerating because there's only a handful of people who are in poker that are worth this much and they earned most of it out of commercialism and business deals. Also pretty sure that the top guns wouldn't ever tell you how much they're worth, that's just retarded ;o | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On November 12 2008 01:41 travis wrote: dude Sfydjklm, rekrul is an awesome tourney player. well when i posted that i was thinking of Elky and mig, its tough to call though, you can go by opinions which are just opinions or you can go by cash won, which isnt exactly honest way to go about it- seeing as Gold is the most profitable tournament player. I think its only consistency which people like mig, elky or khan exhibit that should be credited, which is of course might not be a fair judgment on someone who is a predominantly cash player. | ||
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Sfydjklm
United States9218 Posts
On November 12 2008 01:44 Liquid`Nazgul wrote: itm scores isnt datamining I meant the german site that got shut down now, which showed 90% of the players in the red. Which of course is skewed, but i think it perfectly illustrates the hardships of poker- everyone who ever ventures there will have to face a brutal downswing, and poker is no way an easy way to make money- its extremely tough mentally. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
Don't be such an asshole. Let's keep it fair. Don't lie about poker just because you think it will make you money. | ||
Rekrul
Korea (South)17174 Posts
I remember when I was a trash talking newb soul would just lol and be nice to me for some reason. Sucks that he didn't win. Sfydjklm if someone is a poker player they are a poker player. There is no such thing as a 'tourney player' or a 'cash game player.' The only reason why anyone would classify themselves as one and be justified is merely because they are saying 'I do one way more often than the other.' They are not saying they are way better at tournaments than cash games or w/e. If you're counting volume then yeah, I am a cash game player, but that says nothing about anything. If you classify yourself as either you definitely suck. There are plenty of "lol tournament players" which translates to horrible at tournamets but still profit because there are tons of players worse than them and scared to play cash games. There are plenty of "lol cash game players" which translates to low stakes online grinders or live grinders who play bad but still win because everyone else is worse but are scared to put money into a tournamet because they have no idea what to do. But those classifications are only for mediocre players or worse. When a player has reached a high skill level at either tournaments or cash games, they can transition easily with minimal practice. Mig and ElkY are both unreal good at tournaments (top 5 world each ez if you can even make a 'top 5' LOL) so its very hard to compare anyone to them. And to look at tournament results to gauge who is better than who (IF THAT EVEN MATTERS, IT DOESNT LOL) is retarded because you don't know how many tournaments the players have entered. Some people play 10 tournaments a year, some people play 100. I'm going to start attacking the circuit in 2009 though, look out. | ||
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