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On October 09 2008 11:03 .kaz wrote:So the fact that you are, wait for it, playing the role of a character in the diablo world doesn't count!? How is fallout an RPG? How is Baldurs Gate an RPG? How is any RPG an RPG, or how is not every single game an RPG if all that is required is that you role play, or play the role of someone in a game, when you do that in every single game. I could have sworn I was Incontrol, the double swing barbarian who was outcast as a child and is forced to eat to cope with my short comings  .
.Kaz I didn't put Diablo 2 in the poll because I consider it in a different category and not comparable to these games.
First reason is yes the game is just click-move click-kill and that's about it. The other reason why I didn't list it is because yes it's popular but not because it has a deep storyline, role playing, lots of dialogue and character interaction, it's simply popular because of it's multiplayer aspect. It's just in a different category.
Counter Strike, Battlefield 2 and COD 4 are popular FPS games but they're mostly multiplayer games. I wouldn't compare them with Half Life, Bioshock, Crysis, Stalker etc...
I might as well put World of Warcraft in the poll. It's an rpg right?
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role-playing game: a game in which the players assume the roles of characters and collaboratively create narratives.
In Fallout and Baldur's Gate, the player does not create the narratives, true, but he does greatly impact the narratives. In Diablo, like in Unreal Tournament, the narrative is in not significantly impacted by the player.
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is awesome32277 Posts
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The reason that I consider the Diablo series and games like it separate from the games listed in the poll is having choices. In Fallout, Planescape, or Baldur's Gate you have choices in how you want to proceed through the game based on the type of character that you are role-playing. Specifically you have choices in dialog in order to act in character and you may have non-combat methods to complete your objectives if you choose to. In Diablo, the only choices that you have are related to how you want to set up your characters stats and equipment to best kill your enemies.
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BG1, I understand your reasoning, but some of the other games you listed are also click move, click kill games. Most of the games you listed were made after the diablo series, and have had more time to develop, and more dedication and requirements, giving them the more in depth storylines, role playing, and more dialogue and character interaction. I think that you should have defined what you were making a poll of beyond RPG, because by the title WoW should have been included, but you defined your games in the poll only. As an example, take Final Fantasy 1 or Zelda for the Nintendo. The games are as basic as you get, yet people wouldn't disclude it from a console RPG discussion simply because they were undeveloped.
I wouldn't think of Counter Strike or the Battlefield series the same as Half Life and Bioshock games either, because the games were designed to be played online only, with very very limited single player or non at all, making them MMO's only. The COD 4 story line is very in depth and very well done, and I would include that with the other FPS games you listed because of that. There are games that are designed for single player only, and games that are designed for multiplayer only. And then there are those with in depth story lines and all, that also have multiplayer capibilities, like Diablo, Half Life, and Crysis. A games success in either region shouldn't determine whether its included in a broad topic like this because the multiplayer sucks so its not popular for it, or the single player isn't fun and is only played online, hence why I am arguing my point that the Diablo series should be included in your discussion, no matter how the gameplay is differen't, because it wasn't defined in the OP what you were looking for.
Again Mindcrime, the games listed in the discussion only have the creation of narratives because they are more advanced and have more gameplay in them. Also, take for example, Morrowind, your race, personality, guilds, and actions determine the "narratives". This is simply an advanced version of picking a character in diablo and having the dialogue and character speech be differen't, or adding an extra stat to change how characters react with you.
Im going to stop responding, because we obviously have very differen't opinions on what is and what isn't an RPG, and what makes diablo not worth being in a poll for best PC rpgs, and what does. We could go on for hours about the small details and argue, but it would be pointless.
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morrowind is so much fun to play when you are high
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On October 09 2008 11:36 .kaz wrote:
Again Mindcrime, the games listed in the discussion only have the creation of narratives because they are more advanced and have more gameplay in them. Also, take for example, Morrowind, your race, personality, guilds, and actions determine the "narratives". This is simply an advanced version of picking a character in diablo and having the dialogue and character speech be differen't, or adding an extra stat to change how characters react with you.
It's the difference between Chainmail and D&D.
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KOTOR... need i say more?
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On October 09 2008 11:36 .kaz wrote:
BG1, I understand your reasoning, but some of the other games you listed are also click move, click kill games. Most of the games you listed were made after the diablo series, and have had more time to develop, and more dedication and requirements, giving them the more in depth storylines, role playing, and more dialogue and character interaction. I think that you should have defined what you were making a poll of beyond RPG, because by the title WoW should have been included, but you defined your games in the poll only. As an example, take Final Fantasy 1 or Zelda for the Nintendo. The games are as basic as you get, yet people wouldn't disclude it from a console RPG discussion simply because they were undeveloped.
I wouldn't think of Counter Strike or the Battlefield series the same as Half Life and Bioshock games either, because the games were designed to be played online only, with very very limited single player or non at all, making them MMO's only. The COD 4 story line is very in depth and very well done, and I would include that with the other FPS games you listed because of that. There are games that are designed for single player only, and games that are designed for multiplayer only. And then there are those with in depth story lines and all, that also have multiplayer capibilities, like Diablo, Half Life, and Crysis. A games success in either region shouldn't determine whether its included in a broad topic like this because the multiplayer sucks so its not popular for it, or the single player isn't fun and is only played online, hence why I am arguing my point that the Diablo series should be included in your discussion, no matter how the gameplay is differen't, because it wasn't defined in the OP what you were looking for.
Again Mindcrime, the games listed in the discussion only have the creation of narratives because they are more advanced and have more gameplay in them. Also, take for example, Morrowind, your race, personality, guilds, and actions determine the "narratives". This is simply an advanced version of picking a character in diablo and having the dialogue and character speech be differen't, or adding an extra stat to change how characters react with you.
Im going to stop responding, because we obviously have very differen't opinions on what is and what isn't an RPG, and what makes diablo not worth being in a poll for best PC rpgs, and what does. We could go on for hours about the small details and argue, but it would be pointless.
Well I'll put it this way, besides other reasons, if someone was to play Diablo single player without playing multiplayer it wouldn't compare to any of the games in this poll simply due to its inferiority in that department.
Diablo is a good game and very fun online but putting it in the list would simply skew the results.
I'm not undermining the game with this poll, I just feel it's too different to compare with the other choices and yes you're right I could've been more specific but looking at the list I think most people understand what I'm going for.
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On October 09 2008 11:58 liger13 wrote:
KOTOR... need i say more?
Yea I've actually had Kotor 2 on my pc for about two years now and I still haven't found the time to play it. I always think about finally trying it but then thinking about all the time it's going to consume...
Ah to be a teenager without a care and time to spare, those were the days!
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How has nobody mentioned the Ultima series?
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i voted for morrowind, but i also really enjoyed fallout 2, although being able to get the advanced power armor from navarro at the very start of the game really made it way too easy. unless you were fighting deathclaws or guys with big guns/energy weapons, youd take 0 damage unless it was a lucky/critical hit. ploughing through noobs with shotguns and rifles and not taking a scratch was fun but eventually it wore off
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
Anyone play the Witcher?
Just bought it loading it right now hope it was worth the money.
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United States3824 Posts
Morrowind engine abuse FTW!!!!
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its 2 hard 2 chose between fallout 2 and baldurs gate 2 : (
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On October 09 2008 15:14 TreK wrote:
its 2 hard 2 chose between fallout 2 and baldurs gate 2 : (
and you haven't even played planescape torment.. would be even harder then!
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For me, Morrowind cannot be counted because it was awesome only through mods(which I throughly enjoyed). Standard game feels boring and lotsa bug/imbas ruining the feel not to mention the cliff racers that came with it. Fallout 2 got my vote.
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On October 09 2008 10:47 .kaz wrote:
Boblions origonal quote of me said that the Diablo series was not an RPG. I said that other than the differen't combat systems they are for all intents and purposes the same type of game, and I origonally asked how you could have a Favorite / Top rpg poll without including the most widely played / most popular game of its time, and for a long time to come, not including MMO only RPGS such as everquest, WoW, etc. There are only a few quests in diablo that tells you to kill something, it just so happens that there are enemies protecting the quest area and such. It is possible to get through the entire game with only killing the bosses and semi bosses that open up the way to bosses. If you don't know what quests aren't about killing things, look the quest list up or play it once. How is GTA more of an RPG than Diablo? You seem to not read my post when I say that the advanced games such as the recent GTA's don't nullify the fact that diablo is an RPG. Go play GTA 1 and tell me its more of an RPG than Diablo.
To answer your re-edited edit, list 1 rpg that has quests that don't require you to go kill something, collect an item, or run somewhere and talk to someone.
I said it isn't a true RPG. It is an Hack'n'slash / RPG hybrid. You have to spam to kill monsters.
Also it shouldn't be in the best RPG poll because it is completly linear, has an horrible story, retarded quests, almost no dialogs and you have 0 choices except to buy item X or Y. Diablo 1 has a good ambiance, but D2 is an horrible grinding fest where the only purpose of the game is to kill 5000x the same boss to get the best loot possible.
Definitly not a top RPG.
On October 09 2008 10:09 Mindcrime wrote:Getting all of the BG2 mods is not advisable. There's over 461 of them and they're not all compatible. 
Yea, i wanted to say the max of compatible mods, especially those who increase difficulty ( like tactics ? ).
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On October 09 2008 14:45 JohnColtrane wrote:
i voted for morrowind, but i also really enjoyed fallout 2, although being able to get the advanced power armor from navarro at the very start of the game really made it way too easy. unless you were fighting deathclaws or guys with big guns/energy weapons, youd take 0 damage unless it was a lucky/critical hit. ploughing through noobs with shotguns and rifles and not taking a scratch was fun but eventually it wore off
That is your own fault for purposely breaking the order of the game and getting end game armor at the beginning. You cannot blame the game for that.
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On October 09 2008 15:06 FuDDx wrote:
Anyone play the Witcher?
Just bought it loading it right now hope it was worth the money.
I haven't played it but both Gamespot and IGN gave it the RPG of the year award ahead of Mass Effect so hopefully it won't be too bad lol.
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EPT
