EPTYour favorite RPG (PC) - Page 6
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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Groslouser
France337 Posts
i don't think so: it doesn't affect a first sime player and the other should be smart enough to avoid it oh wait.... i did fallout 2 with a perfect char... nvm... This could be a good blog topic: "should using hack/cheats/whatever in a game to see everything be considered as cheating or not?" (it a bit long though...  ) | ||
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
honorable mentions KOTOR 2, mask of the betrayer, gothic 1-2, morrowind, arcanum, fallout witcher isnt half bad either On October 09 2008 17:33 Ghardo wrote: sounds great. so what's better about MOTB? haven't played neither of the games but i'm a story fanatic and if MOTB's story should be better i'd rather pick that. motb's story is the one that black isle/obsidian keep re-telling over and over, which doesnt mean its bad, just familiar expect strong pst and kotor2 vibes from it compared to the nwn2, its better in every aspect, but especially story/npc/world segments | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On October 09 2008 23:21 Groslouser wrote: Well, if one play this game for the first time, if he head randomly to navaro he'll encounter a patrol => end of the trip and after 20 horrible deaths he'll go somewhere else. Only a player who knows that he can sneak in to get it will do it. Same for the brotherhood's armor. Does that make the game more easy? i don't think so: it doesn't affect a first sime player and the other should be smart enough to avoid it oh wait.... i did fallout 2 with a perfect char... nvm... This could be a good blog topic: "should using hack/cheats/whatever in a game to see everything be considered as cheating or not?" (it a bit long though... )you will barely ever encounter an enclave patrol that early on (before frank and his buddies rape the vault) and if you do you can just reload. all other things you can just run from if you have decent sequence getting to navarro is not hard in that respect, neither is 'sneaking in'. even if you didnt go to matt for the quest, its all in the dialogue with chris, tell him your the new recruit and walk up into the bass with the password, the sergeant even tells you to get to the armory for your advanced power armor. also, even if you dont convince chris, if you say the wrong dialogue he will try to report you after he tells you the location of the hidden entrance anyway. yeah it makes the game easier, of course it does, enclave power armor makes you invulnerable to everything outside of the enclave and all it takes (pretty much) is a little bit of luck or leveling up in the wastes to get the armor, not to mention all the weapons and shit my point is it shouldnt even be available, even if you are 'metagaming' or whatever, other quests have restrictions (the sherrif in redding's quest has a level requirement i believe), why not put some sort of restriction upon that? | ||
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NergalSC
Poland186 Posts
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Slaughter
United States20254 Posts
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WiljushkA
Serbia1416 Posts
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0xDEADBEEF
Germany1235 Posts
I feel the Elder Scrolls series is going downhill though, Oblivion was rather disappointing (though some mods, again, make it much better) and TES 5 is coming only 2 or 3 years after Oblivion... and Bethesda is also working on Fallout 3... I'm not sure if that's a good sign. And of course they're rather console-centric these days. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On October 09 2008 23:42 JohnColtrane wrote: you will barely ever encounter an enclave patrol that early on (before frank and his buddies rape the vault) and if you do you can just reload. all other things you can just run from if you have decent sequence getting to navarro is not hard in that respect, neither is 'sneaking in'. even if you didnt go to matt for the quest, its all in the dialogue with chris, tell him your the new recruit and walk up into the bass with the password, the sergeant even tells you to get to the armory for your advanced power armor. also, even if you dont convince chris, if you say the wrong dialogue he will try to report you after he tells you the location of the hidden entrance anyway. yeah it makes the game easier, of course it does, enclave power armor makes you invulnerable to everything outside of the enclave and all it takes (pretty much) is a little bit of luck or leveling up in the wastes to get the armor, not to mention all the weapons and shit my point is it shouldnt even be available, even if you are 'metagaming' or whatever, other quests have restrictions (the sherrif in redding's quest has a level requirement i believe), why not put some sort of restriction upon that? If I encountered an Enclave patrol and got my ass handed to me, my response would be to reload and NOT return to the place that I just got owned at. I would not continue walking in the random direction away from where I was told to go (Klamath) for no reason whatsoever. It may not be that difficult to do if you know what you are doing, but if you are just starting a game without knowing about it there are many obstacles that stop you from getting there. I stand by saying that it is your fault for getting it early in the game and ruining your fun. Perhaps it should have a level requirement but I don't really see it as necessary because first time players wont be going there anyway. I can think of a few reasons why Redding would have a level cap and Navarro wouldn't. IIRC Redding was pretty close to Klamath/The Den and the encounters around it were not any more difficult than normal (i.e. no enclave/fire geckos) so it is much more conceivable for a person to go there at low levels on accident. If you do the Sheriff's quests at a low level you are likely to get massacred by that dude with the H&K G11. Also, the Redding quest is a side quest whereas I believe Navarro is essential to completing the game. It that the developers didn't want to restrict the players options for game completion by requiring you to be a certain level to beat the game. Anyway, those are just a couple theories, it could just be that the developers messed up or didn't have time, it was a very buggy and frankly incomplete game when it was released. This doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't even find San Francisco or Navarro that early in the game. | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On October 10 2008 06:52 Pangolin wrote: If I encountered an Enclave patrol and got my ass handed to me, my response would be to reload and NOT return to the place that I just got owned at. I would not continue walking in the random direction away from where I was told to go (Klamath) for no reason whatsoever. It may not be that difficult to do if you know what you are doing, but if you are just starting a game without knowing about it there are many obstacles that stop you from getting there. I stand by saying that it is your fault for getting it early in the game and ruining your fun. Perhaps it should have a level requirement but I don't really see it as necessary because first time players wont be going there anyway. I can think of a few reasons why Redding would have a level cap and Navarro wouldn't. IIRC Redding was pretty close to Klamath/The Den and the encounters around it were not any more difficult than normal (i.e. no enclave/fire geckos) so it is much more conceivable for a person to go there at low levels on accident. If you do the Sheriff's quests at a low level you are likely to get massacred by that dude with the H&K G11. Also, the Redding quest is a side quest whereas I believe Navarro is essential to completing the game. It that the developers didn't want to restrict the players options for game completion by requiring you to be a certain level to beat the game. Anyway, those are just a couple theories, it could just be that the developers messed up or didn't have time, it was a very buggy and frankly incomplete game when it was released. This doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't even find San Francisco or Navarro that early in the game. even though they are called random encounters for a reason? =/ the only enclave you encounter before reading was the one where you see frank horrigan and his buddies blast those farmers, then walk away, they dont attack you. and thats that think of things this way: when you get into the den with the intention of completing the main quest i guess its called, you go to metzger and find vic. you can either a)pay 1500 or whatever it is for him (expensive especially at the start of the game when you have no money and no gear) or b)you slay metzger and his men (also a hard task since they all carry guns and theres like 10-12 of them altogether). so what did i do? i went around in the wastes trying to level up so i could beat them down, or at least work up some cash from killing hubologists. and i thought, instead of just browsing one square looking for enemies, i may as well explore everything and look for vault 13 in the meantime, right? since i wasnt metagaming, i had no knowledge that vault 13 wasnt accesible until you complete a certain quest, so i jumped around the map, and i entered the towns i found to do easy quests / steal / loot / kill etc. why shouldnt i find san francisco that early in the game then? | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On October 10 2008 11:11 JohnColtrane wrote: even though they are called random encounters for a reason? =/ the only enclave you encounter before reading was the one where you see frank horrigan and his buddies blast those farmers, then walk away, they dont attack you. and thats that think of things this way: when you get into the den with the intention of completing the main quest i guess its called, you go to metzger and find vic. you can either a)pay 1500 or whatever it is for him (expensive especially at the start of the game when you have no money and no gear) or b)you slay metzger and his men (also a hard task since they all carry guns and theres like 10-12 of them altogether). so what did i do? i went around in the wastes trying to level up so i could beat them down, or at least work up some cash from killing hubologists. and i thought, instead of just browsing one square looking for enemies, i may as well explore everything and look for vault 13 in the meantime, right? since i wasnt metagaming, i had no knowledge that vault 13 wasnt accesible until you complete a certain quest, so i jumped around the map, and i entered the towns i found to do easy quests / steal / loot / kill etc. why shouldnt i find san francisco that early in the game then? Firstly, $1000 dollars is pretty easily obtained by simply doing quests in the Den or Klamath. Secondly, why would you walk all the way to San Francisco instead of going to one of the much closer cities like Redding? Thirdly, I do not believe that you could walk all the way to San Francisco, up to Navarro, and back to San Francisco without running into Enclave patrols, fire geckos, aliens, or some other encounter that is much harder than killing Metzger and his crew. At some point you should have realized that you were in a place that you are not meant to be until you are at a much higher level. If you weren't metagaming then you got extremely lucky (or unlucky I suppose) to stumble upon and survive the quest. And even afterwards you always had the choice to just not wear the armor. It is your fault for making the game easy, not the developers. Alright, that's it, I'm done arguing. | ||
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
On October 10 2008 11:46 Pangolin wrote: Firstly, $1000 dollars is pretty easily obtained by simply doing quests in the Den or Klamath. Secondly, why would you walk all the way to San Francisco instead of going to one of the much closer cities like Redding? Thirdly, I do not believe that you could walk all the way to San Francisco, up to Navarro, and back to San Francisco without running into Enclave patrols, fire geckos, aliens, or some other encounter that is much harder than killing Metzger and his crew. At some point you should have realized that you were in a place that you are not meant to be until you are at a much higher level. If you weren't metagaming then you got extremely lucky (or unlucky I suppose) to stumble upon and survive the quest. And even afterwards you always had the choice to just not wear the armor. It is your fault for making the game easy, not the developers. Alright, that's it, I'm done arguing. alot of these quests are bad for karma and i already needed alot of money for sulik and other things too. why would i walk all the way to san fran? because i had already been to redding and i was searching for the vault. Lol, i never saw an enclave patrol before the deathclaws in the vault got exterminated, if i run into aliens or deathclaws i simply run, however if i run into the hubbos vsing the caravaners, i wait and loot whoever dies, and if i can i kill the other team and loot them. also, lol at 'surviving' the quest. do you know how absurdly easy it is to get the second best armor in the game? it requires no fighting, not thinking, no puzzle solving, nothing pretty much. thats why it shouldnt be in the game. why should it be, if it was for higher level players it should have been scaled for higher level players ie the quest should be harder, but its absurdly easy for a low level character to obtain. of course i could choose not to wear the armor, but just having it available without cheating detracts from the game and makes it seem like a noob route for people that dont want to work hard at getting cash or just steamrolling towns | ||
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Mindcrime
United States6899 Posts
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JohnColtrane
Australia4813 Posts
but if morrowind had placed wraithguard and the tools in the middle on balmora city, along with ebony mail it would detract from my game again | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
How has nobody mentioned the Ultima series? Easily the best RPGs ever made. | ||
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Pangolin
United States1035 Posts
On October 10 2008 13:13 JohnColtrane wrote: everyone is different but if morrowind had placed wraithguard and the tools in the middle on balmora city, along with ebony mail it would detract from my game again That's not the same at all. Balmora is the first city you visit, San Fran is the last city you go to in the normal course of the game. | ||
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