two towers or 1 death with normal starting gold and no jungling?

by the time viper reaches level 5, brood will be severely underleveled with no gold and viper can just orb walk him to death any time with two sentries or a gem -_-

if you're going a pushing strat, furion is the better choice because he's ranged and won't die w/ tele/sprout . . .

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

September 14 2008 21:21 GMT

#1042

problem with that zulu is that you go web first, and spiders arent very plentiful until level 5 (with regen items rob + void). So, you will be under leveled if viper is smart and starts out with sentries because he can just free harass you.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

September 14 2008 21:23 GMT

#1043

Actually going against brood solo mid is harder than it looks, even with viper, counter wards isn't hard as your creep wave will be on their tower more than theirs, giving them more chances to blow your wards.

Basically the problem with brood isn't the invisibility, its the ridiculous timing window she has in a lane. If you make smart decisions and position yourself properly, you can go from a very defensive stance to a very offensive stance as Brood. Her animation is deceptively easy and she gains a lot from just level 1 Web as well as comes with a nuke that spawns creeps. 315 MS (without web buff) and about the same damage as Viper, so she shouldn't be as outlaned a(if at all) as you think she would be. Pretty much she can play semi-defensive until 6 then the lane is more or less even because Viper HAS to sit on his ultimate to stand remotely a chance of living through Brood's ultimate. But no, Viper shouldn't have more than half a level on Brood, most likely they'll be about even all things considered in a lane. Worst comes to worst, Brood farms with the nuke and sends them to rune check or farm forest.

And they getting a gem means one of two things, one they know they'll dominate you and your team or two they'll lose it in a gank or team fight because it sets them back farm-wise.

Basically BlueRoyal has the idea of how Brood is being played these days, orb walk means shit when the other guy runs a hell of a lot faster than you, harass is mitigated by web's added regen. On top of that, Viper is in a race to 6 to pick up a defensive ultimate.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 14 2008 21:28 GMT

#1044

Nevermore is super weak early on though and a good brood should be able to kill it when it reaches lv6. The only heroes I know who can outlane brood solo are, alchemist, meepo, axe, and some aoe stun heroes like TS. All other heroes are either 50/50 or certain death/tower going down in 10min vs Brood. There's just absolutely no way Viper can stop its tower from getting pushed down because it has no aoe damage whatsoever.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 14 2008 21:28 GMT

#1045

or rather it has the corrosive skin whatever but that doesnt do anything.

paper

13196 Posts

September 14 2008 21:28 GMT

#1046

umm, i thought we were talking about a 2-person game oo;

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 14 2008 21:29 GMT

#1047

I'm talking about both, both apromdomfom whatever and in a real game.

zulu_nation8

China26351 Posts

September 14 2008 21:32 GMT

#1048

Honestly brood should be banned more than zeus + bm combined in 6.52. I've gotten 4 towers in 20min in scrims before and I've never been outlaned solo by any one hero they've thrown at me. Last time vs a viper I got the mid tower in something like 6min. If I was stupid enough to let my opponents pick brood I usually throw something like Lich + Pom two nukers at middle.

Ack1027

United States7873 Posts

September 14 2008 21:37 GMT

#1049

On September 14 2008 19:51 zulu_nation8 wrote:
Great news I think I'm even better at starcraft at least strategically than before although I've played 5 games total in the past 4 months. Yesterday I trashed someone who usually beats me rvr 4-1.

!confirm. I play iccup here and there lately and I've noticed I'm a much better [ casual ] player than I was before. DotA actually made me want to think, sc was just mindless.

And brood is gay to solo against period.

If omni is banned every game [ he is ] for the team fight end of the spectrum, brood is on the other end...meaning she's banned for being a 1v1 gay hero.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

September 14 2008 21:39 GMT

#1050

Any hero with a stun can do it, any hero with a big burst damage can do it, she just stomps solos who can't switch into defensive or suck when playing defensive so hard. Lesh is iffy because his health and armor sucks, depends on the warding.

They need to nerf the web in all aspects, no other spell in the game gives MS, invisibility, regen and sight. And no other hero can alternate between two very distinct strategies in a lane at the whim of the player. Pretty much once bkb hits the table on her, its gg unless you have like a Pitlord/Enigma.

And when I said Nevermore I meant generally against push strats, if you are laning SF against BM, lane switch unless you can constantly keep her health low so she can't just tower dive you with ulti on.

Ack1027

United States7873 Posts

September 14 2008 21:41 GMT

#1051

Tangoes of web remove imo.

Chewits

Northern Ireland1200 Posts

September 14 2008 22:28 GMT

#1052

I played SF other day vs Brood in a pickupgame. I got completely raped. Went 0-3, and had to move lane, completely messing up our lanes, as we had Axe jungling. Basically, all though I can use shadowraze, her invis + animation was really raping me. And as soon as he got his slow spell thing, I can do nothing versus him. As a result we lost the game, as Brood got really beefy.

I tried to get sentries, but brood was just able to counter them as soon as she knows i can see her. In short, BM is an absolute pain in the arse for SF. I got a bit flamed for "feeding" brood, but in all seriousness, I was useless vs him. Also the fact that he was host, made it easier for him to last hit.

Also, Brood IS banned alot now in 6.52e, because he is much more powerful than 6.48. In 6.48 u could just blink away from him, and he could do nothing. Now with no dagger, he is a rape machine. He can own in 1v1, and can rape at pushing with good spiderling micro.

paper

13196 Posts

September 15 2008 01:41 GMT

#1053

brood is imba : (

just mass clarities and own her with nukes....

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

September 15 2008 03:10 GMT

#1054

Meepo > Brood. If someone tries to imba you with brood, pick meepo and imba them back. Brood can't lane meeps.

Krohm

Canada1857 Posts

September 15 2008 06:59 GMT

#1055

What items do I get on Zeus? I've just recently started using him, and I'm fairly clueless as to where I should start, and go.

Skill builds would be nice too.

paper

13196 Posts

September 15 2008 07:13 GMT

#1056

midas, battlefury, sange and yasha, butterfly

stats, static, stats, static, stats, static, stats, static, stats

Krohm

Canada1857 Posts

September 15 2008 07:16 GMT

#1057

On September 15 2008 16:13 paper wrote:
midas, battlefury, sange and yasha, butterfly

stats, static, stats, static, stats, static, stats, static, stats

Quality advice right here. You think I should get vlads as well?

paper

13196 Posts

September 15 2008 07:30 GMT

#1058

satanic imo!

lololol i hate item build orders when the MU largely determines what you should be going :\
you should experiment with pers or arcane and get bracers or pt booster for HP
then go from there :\

static is useless early
chain is shit damage but you can last hit with it
bolt is king

Krohm

Canada1857 Posts

September 15 2008 08:19 GMT

#1059

I actually usually go LB/Static etc. Ulti when it comes up. I keep spamming bolt, usually keeps the other guy(s) away.

I usually do get a point booster after a bracer or talisman/boots, then eventually aghanims. I was told getting an aghanims is a very noob thing to do on Zeus by some random.

Oh yeah I always get ring of bassilus too, just to help with the spamming.

Masamune

Canada3401 Posts

September 15 2008 08:24 GMT

#1060

On September 15 2008 15:59 Krohm wrote:
What items do I get on Zeus? I've just recently started using him, and I'm fairly clueless as to where I should start, and go.

Skill builds would be nice too.

I'm sure others could give better advice, but for a novice level zeus, I would just rush to an aghanim with a refresher / boots of travel after. It would be much easier than going arcane ring first, into other advanced builds because of the lack of early hp. If your a low hp zeus and if you're just starting to use him, people will prey on you like no tomoroow and take away any early game advantage you might have as such a strong caster.