meh, it's a stereotype that em players suck nuts and an accurate one
not true in 100% of the cases of course

but em is just weird.. it's a different game
i can get items faster in non-em for whatever reason. and all the timings for lasthitting with towers are off, so weird.. (like 2 hits for ranged or 3 for cata.. doesnt' work like that in em)
plus i swear, there's just something wrong with it
so i only play it for the lulz xD

Tadzio

3340 Posts

March 11 2010 16:26 GMT

#15422

On March 11 2010 22:49 iSiN wrote:
Who would ever farm denies in the mid game, to be honest though you shouldn't stop denying as it doesn't lose effectiveness...it's just that heroes take so many more creeps to get a level.

I had a game where I got 120 denies while playing Succubus. I believe ~90 of those were after the laning phase of the game. She can't push on her own anyway, so while my teammates were farming, I was denying. Denying in the mid-lategame is more about controlling the creep movement while you farm than it is about hurting the other team's xp/farm, but I suppose it does that, too.

I frequently get 40-60 denies when I play melee carries, which is probably a bad thing when my team isn't deliberately turtling. But whatever, I like keeping the creeps on my side of the map until I'm ready to leave the lane and push.

btw, I'm not saying I'm pro. ... I suppose I'm saying that denying a lot doesn't necessarily make you good. I'm pretty mediocre as far as HoN gamesense goes, imo, and my last three smurf accounts have averaged 30 denies a game, which I'd wager is a respectable total. I suppose the best way to know that you're playing with someone competent is to know them already.

Bash

Finland1533 Posts

March 11 2010 16:55 GMT

#15423

Getting over a hundred denys isn't actually hard if you're playing a carry and holding a lane still for extended periods of time. But how often does a person do that, on average, anyway? Not very often, and it doesn't skew the average that much in the grand scheme of things. Deny count is a very accurate portrayal of one's laning skills, I find.

Wala.Revolution

7584 Posts

March 11 2010 17:17 GMT

#15424

I didn't read the wall of text - no time currently.

However, I would wait before you judge a player's skill on the stats alone. I think on my walawalawala account I have 70% em games, 120 ck, 16 denies. I consider myself a decent player now with a stronger understanding of the game. It's just not possible to get the em percentage down since nm players won't play with me (I'm around 1800) and lower ranked hosts kick me.

If you want to judge a player's stats, then look at denies with the KDA ratios. High denies can mean a good laning partner, and in midgame, a terrific static farmer, just like how a carry needs to play. (and if for somereason, a support is farming, pulling lane back so the carry can get safe farm later). KDA is there for you to look at what roles that person usually plays. Low KDR may mean he plays supports, which means at least close D-A ratios.

About the em-mode thing, I'll give a comparison. I do not expect BGH players to adapt as quickly as low-money players on each others' maps. EM allows you to not have good farming skills and quicker gold imcome means less laning phase. Overall, an EM player's battle skills and tactics might be similar, the average laning skill must be below that of a NM player. From my experience, high EM-percentage correlates with low denies, and the 1800 EM players still suck.

Now I'll complain about a moronic demented shaman who uses healing wave twice to clear lane twice, when I was static farming near safe second tower with a ward I put down at jungle entrance. Fucking moronic!

Has this thread been moderated AT ALL?

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

March 11 2010 17:21 GMT

#15425

Why does it need moderation? It's like the earth, a self sustaining / preserving system.

Wala.Revolution

7584 Posts

March 11 2010 17:34 GMT

#15426

I'm not saying it should be done, but was just curious. Not even in its early days?

Pokebunny

United States10654 Posts

March 11 2010 18:09 GMT

#15427

I think EM% can be a decent indicator of skill as mentioned but honestly just cause someone plays EM shouldn't mean they are bad. That's like saying if a good iccup player plays FMP on his alt account for fun he is therefore a noob.

Wala.Revolution

7584 Posts

March 11 2010 18:15 GMT

#15428

After switching to NM a while back, I feel that I don't want to play em anymore. Anyone else?

And poke, posting from school?

DCLXVI

United States729 Posts

March 11 2010 18:20 GMT

#15429

On March 12 2010 02:34 Wala.Revolution wrote:
I'm not saying it should be done, but was just curious. Not even in its early days?

Didn't TYGS get banned on this thread for taking up some 2-3 pages with one word posts a while back?

I only switch back to easy mode after losing 5 or so games in a row where a team mate disconnects.

Caller

Poland8075 Posts

March 11 2010 18:20 GMT

#15430

On March 12 2010 03:09 Pokebunny wrote:
I think EM% can be a decent indicator of skill as mentioned but honestly just cause someone plays EM shouldn't mean they are bad. That's like saying if a good iccup player plays FMP on his alt account for fun he is therefore a noob.

ur a noob

Goshawk.

United Kingdom5338 Posts

March 11 2010 18:32 GMT

#15431

Cbaed to read/reply to everything but the hon forums are fucking retarded.

If someone suggests anything the first thing people seem to do is look at their accounts and if they have low psr/low k:d/low denies/high %em/anything they don't like they just flame the user. Plus, they have an inherent hate of dota and love everything made by S2. I guess you get that from official forums though.

Wala.Revolution

7584 Posts

March 11 2010 18:51 GMT

#15432

Disregard the people who flame you for your account stats. Actually, just judge according to their post's content. If Storks says zealots are good vs cracklings, I would not believe him (of course with and plausible argument, it would be different).

If you can't stand reading some trolls/dumbasses, don't venture on there. There are too many idiots who think they are the best and can't think for themselves.

As for the DotA/Hon hate/love, I didn't like people who used dota terms because it was quite annoying to look up satanic, deso, clarity, bfury, constantly. Use hon terms why? It's a hon forum.

I haven't seen much posts regarding dota hate except where people say 'a is b' because 'in dota', where things are different. But then it was the poster people didn't like, not dota. I think I come across frustration against honstaff over dota.

Pokebunny

United States10654 Posts

March 11 2010 18:58 GMT

#15433

I had a half day, lol.

I hate when people use DotA names because I never played more than 5 games of DotA.

Solinren

United States2653 Posts

March 11 2010 19:15 GMT

#15434

First post here. =D Been lurking here for a while. Just faced ophelia and the flying courier with mock build, and I must say it's really easy to counter cause I only had to get myself a flying courier and follow it and killed it in 3 shots.

SwaY-

Dominican Republic463 Posts

March 11 2010 19:17 GMT

#15435

yawn, I started out as EM, still have that old account(75% EM, 1k games) then I have my new one with like 2% EM over 150 games... guess what I played more NM on my old account yet I cant get into high rated(with 1800 people) on my old account, but yes with my new one?

It's just stupid sometimes.

SwaY-

Dominican Republic463 Posts

March 11 2010 19:19 GMT

#15436

On March 12 2010 03:15 Wala.Revolution wrote:
After switching to NM a while back, I feel that I don't want to play em anymore. Anyone else?

And poke, posting from school?

Yep.. at first I found it a bit harder but a few hundred games and I've gotten used to it over the last 2 months or so

Goshawk.

United Kingdom5338 Posts

March 11 2010 19:50 GMT

#15437

On March 12 2010 03:51 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Disregard the people who flame you for your account stats. Actually, just judge according to their post's content. If Storks says zealots are good vs cracklings, I would not believe him (of course with and plausible argument, it would be different).

If you can't stand reading some trolls/dumbasses, don't venture on there. There are too many idiots who think they are the best and can't think for themselves.

As for the DotA/Hon hate/love, I didn't like people who used dota terms because it was quite annoying to look up satanic, deso, clarity, bfury, constantly. Use hon terms why? It's a hon forum.

I haven't seen much posts regarding dota hate except where people say 'a is b' because 'in dota', where things are different. But then it was the poster people didn't like, not dota. I think I come across frustration against honstaff over dota.

No one flames me for my posts regarding stats mainly because a) my stats are good and b) I don't post much there. Just from reading other threads.

Elegance

Canada917 Posts

March 11 2010 20:35 GMT

#15438

What an uproar.

I wonder what would happen if TL did an em inhouse ;p QQ