It's not rage at all. It's talking down to you because you are terribad and you keep talking like you're good in this thread dispensing advice when you got the price to a fucking stout shield wrong.
A fucking stout shield. A super common item.

There's people here who dispense great advice. Heen, Alven, etc.. you are not one of them.
FORCE
STAFF
MEDUSA
YEAH, LET'S GET THAT BECAUSE WE'D MUCH RATHER HAVE THAT THEN BOT OR AN ACTUAL ITEM.
Fucking FORCE
STAFF
MEDUSA
el o el.

Divinek

Canada4045 Posts

August 14 2009 02:19 GMT

#9642

On August 14 2009 11:13 Judicator wrote:

Show nested quote +

The problem with NA is that with bad players they'll sit there and let themselves get mana burned. It's not hard killing him and containing him, of course once you lose map control, he turns into a monster ganker, but the same can be said of a lot of heroes. Mana Burn loses effectiveness later on, Armor is fucking worthless (hurray melee damage return and shit Armor for a low HP agi that can't tank?), Vendetta is going to get sentried/dusted.

He's so high risk that most teams wouldn't even touch him if it wasn't for his mana burn lane control which surprise surprise you can bottle out of. Like having no mana doesn't prevent them from farming, it does make it hard for them to go offensive on you.

You see it a lot, when a team is going for a tower, if their support/wardbitch is worth anything then you will see a sentry being dropped for that team fight.

Yeah I mostly agree with you that map control is a large part of his strength. I just see his effectiveness in after the initial laning phase when the carry will be alone farming and what not. But assuming the team is smart enough to buy sentry's for pushes and stuff, which suprisingly even pro teams arent sometimes, I see your point.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

August 14 2009 02:29 GMT

#9643

On August 14 2009 11:19 MYM.Testie wrote:
It's not rage at all. It's talking down to you because you are terribad and you keep talking like you're good in this thread dispensing advice when you got the price to a fucking stout shield wrong.
A fucking stout shield. A super common item.

There's people here who dispense great advice. Heen, Alven, etc.. you are not one of them.
FORCE
STAFF
MEDUSA
YEAH, LET'S GET THAT BECAUSE WE'D MUCH RATHER HAVE THAT THEN BOT OR AN ACTUAL ITEM.
Fucking FORCE
STAFF
MEDUSA
el o el.

Glad you can read dates Testie, cause when that was posted Stout was 350 gold, but that's ok.

BATTLEFURY
RUSH
BRISTLEBACK POST-NERF
YEAH, LET'S GET THAT BECAUSE SOMETHING TO HELP ME TANK IS OVERRATED BECAUSE MY NAME IS TESTIE AND I CAN ONLY RICE. AND THEN I PLAY IT OFF AS A JOKE TO MAKE MYSELF NOT LOOK DUMB.

El o El?

SK.Testie

Canada11084 Posts

August 14 2009 02:34 GMT

#9644

I don't think anyone in this thread's gonna believe you.
But they're certainly going to believe hood is ass in a jungle build.

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

August 14 2009 02:40 GMT

#9645

backup

Elemenope

Burkina Faso1704 Posts

August 14 2009 02:40 GMT

#9646

Hood in jungle is fucking bad.

Testie owes me a ball tickling night.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

August 14 2009 02:42 GMT

#9647

On August 14 2009 11:34 MYM.Testie wrote:
I don't think anyone in this thread's gonna believe you.
But they're certainly going to believe hood is ass in a jungle build.

Lol, good for them, they can stay bad then. I have ran into more than enough TL members the past few days, and all of them talk massive amounts of shit in games, then fucking fail. But its ok, because the great Testie is going to bail them out or rage quit lulz?

Dark.Carnival

United States5095 Posts

August 14 2009 02:42 GMT

#9648

here's your backup!
+ Show Spoiler +

buckbo1604

Canada186 Posts

August 14 2009 02:46 GMT

#9649

well Im mia atm because i dont have internet to my normal pc. its been moved upstairs and i gotta buy a adapter. hopefully this weekend.

DoYouHas

United States1140 Posts

August 14 2009 03:42 GMT

#9650

Who are you judicator? have you ever played with us or in any league that means anything? with any good teams? Cause right now, with nothing behind your name, you look like your talking out your ass.

nitram

Canada5412 Posts

August 14 2009 04:14 GMT

#9651

Honestly Judicator, post a rep or stfu.

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

August 14 2009 04:30 GMT

#9652

On August 14 2009 11:42 Judicator wrote:

Show nested quote +

huh, the only thing all the tl dota players have in common is that we are from tl, we dont have any sort of screening process to who we let in, and i dont really feel that any of the players we have are particularly bm or anything... but a lot of them aren't so great at dota.

anyways, as for axe. if you are going to go hood... just don't jungle as axe. he goes well with any sort of heal/ranged stun in a lane. vanguard isn't a great item you're right, but if you try to just jungle with hood... it doesn't work so well. you can never gank the lane because your health is so low all the time... ursa camps wreck you.

nitram

Canada5412 Posts

August 14 2009 04:48 GMT

#9653

Nitrogen - "i dont really feel that any of the players we have are particularly bm or anything"
XD

paper

13196 Posts

August 14 2009 06:17 GMT

#9654

VG: +250 HP
Hood: basically +30% HP

hood is better for survivability o__o;
you don't even need vanguard; just a stout if youre jungling

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

August 14 2009 06:37 GMT

#9655

On August 14 2009 15:17 paper wrote:
VG: +250 HP
Hood: basically +30% HP

hood is better for survivability o__o;
you don't even need vanguard; just a stout if youre jungling

its 300 hp now o.O

vanguard is still an underrated item by alot of people. It is a solid item on some agi carries/gankers that dont have alot of hp. On axe there are games its worth it to get and others its not, but to me its very good for pushing. A vanguard lets you run past tower and tank entire creep waves and stay at full life early game (vs outer towers) so that enemies wont run in to attack you. Hood doesn't give you that option as you take alot more damage from creeps with just single stout shield. In team fights yea hood is better, but its comparing apples and oranges.

a vanguard will always jungle better than a hood/stout and vice versa a hood/stout is better for a laning axe (with the exception of going van to dive past towers to push them much faster going into mid game). In either case you should be farming well enough to have both a van and hood in most games early on, the only thing you are prolonging is your blink.

Live2Win

United States6657 Posts

August 14 2009 06:58 GMT

#9656

I always love Alven's comments and advice. They're always so insightful and don't have the tone of arrogance a lot of the ppl here have (including myself).

Ace

United States16096 Posts

August 14 2009 07:06 GMT

#9657

Speaking of agility carries why do people in pubs (I know) go for Vanguard as an early item on Viper?

He's a ranged hero with insane damage potential that can easily outrun most heroes due to his orb. So you usually go for Lothar's to increase his survivability right? I just dont see Vanguard making sense on a ranged agility hero that is hard to run up to, dominates a lane and barely has to touch creeps. Might as well go for treads->lothars or some wraith bands earlier.

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

August 14 2009 07:23 GMT

#9658

On August 14 2009 16:06 Ace wrote:
Speaking of agility carries why do people in pubs (I know) go for Vanguard as an early item on Viper?

He's a ranged hero with insane damage potential that can easily outrun most heroes due to his orb. So you usually go for Lothar's to increase his survivability right? I just dont see Vanguard making sense on a ranged agility hero that is hard to run up to, dominates a lane and barely has to touch creeps. Might as well go for treads->lothars or some wraith bands earlier.

its good hp + mitigation vs creeps when he ganks lanes. It also lets him to tower dive more easily than a lothars. For most clan wars i play viper, if im farming badly (i had a really bad game once with viper, went like 2-4 in a lane and really struggled to get on my feet) i went for a simple phase/bracers/vanguard build by the end of the game (mostly due to me being ward bitch too). It really extends your hp alot in alot of ganking/small skirmishes with creeps/towers around.

Ace

United States16096 Posts

August 14 2009 07:30 GMT

#9659

But that's the thing it's not like these guys are ganking hardcore. I mean literally it's their very first item, even before boots at times and they just sit there and farm. I'd figure you could just easily abuse your lane and farm treads which early game would help you gank easier.

I'd think Vanguard was better mid-late game for as you said team skirmishes. But early game when you still need to sit in your lane it seems like a waste of gold.

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

August 14 2009 07:35 GMT

#9660

hmm nah, viper can get it early as long as he is ganking. I normally go phase (if we have multiple gankers) or travels (if we need to counter ganks) on viper then work into bracers/vang/hood (whichever is needed, sometimes bracers before i finish boots). Its mostly about the game and you can't commit to 1 hero item set every game. Some games on viper i rush mkb after phase/wraiths/bottle because its what i need. Others i rush travels/wraiths/radiance. You really have to judge what you will be doing at certain times in the game to know what you need.

The biggest advice i can say is that you need to get your boots/hp early enough so you can gank people safely (without fear of dieing ganking 1v1) and know when to dive someone and when to back off. If you get too greedy you will almost always die on a gank. Ive let people get away at like 100 hp or so because i knew i was gonna die if i went for the kill, which sometimes isn't worth it.