On August 27 2011 01:45 Durak wrote: All right, I just watched the replay. The good news is that you're not that bad and that you've got good potential. The bad news is that your perception of the game is limited while you're playing. You don't have the game sense to see the entire picture yet but that'll come in time.
First off, you did well in lane but you didn't destroy hag. You were +-2 creep kills and denies for the first five minutes of the game. Neither of you really had an advantage. Then hag decided to try to gank bottom (she didn't have any wards at the runes and you had them both warded for the early game) and you stayed mid to farm. That's where you picked up a level on her. However, shortly afterwards, you went top for a gank and your team ended up giving up that lead. Even though you got a double tap, hag was around for three kills and ended up a level ahead of you. (This was part your fault and part your team's. You had terrible positioning when she first came in and then your team suicided at the tower after trying to help you) So basically you weren't "destroying" early game.
After that you ended up dying a bunch because of bad positioning and bad teamfights. Hag went one level in blink and three in haunt so once she blinked on top of you, you would die. It's better to not put yourself in that position but you also tried to run from her rather than killing her. If hag is leveling haunt, you won't be able to run from her tower to yours once she gets it on you and, conversely, if she blinks on you she won't be able to run away from flint. It would have been better for you to just flare+ult her.
I'll give more specifics if you ask for them but at the end of the game hag was 8/0/4 and you were 2/5/2. You lost because you spent a lot of time ganking/team fighting and losing them rather than farming. You were too squishy for most messy fights (flint is dependent on good positioning anyway) and it went downhill. Take-away: try and farm as efficiently as possible as a carry and then only fight when it's favorable or necessary.
Ahh, I was going off memory, apparently it's pretty bad, lol. And I did forget my team's terrible tower diving antics....I was facepaming pretty hard in-game, I suppose that's when she really got ahead though, it would make sense. I was under the impression i had outfarmed her pretty good though, maybe it's just my selective memory. So you're saying positioning was the major thing? What should I have done differently transitioning into midgame, just stay mid and farm? I hate doing that when my team is getting crapped on, or when I think I could get some easy kills/assists, but obviously what I did do didn't work at all either.
I just played a couple of games of this for the first time yesterday night, got owned pretty hard (pretty much the first time I play a moba since DOTA and I only played like 5 games of that in my life) but once I got some weapons and we were high level I went on a killing spree and started doing well.
Wasn't really fair because I was playing with some moba freaks but they were going easy obviously (the guys @ http://moba-champions.com/ , my brother is part of the team that runs it and some other people he knows are always online so it's easy to get games for fun).
The auto-level feature is awesome, I just followed a guide and bought the items they said since I don't know the shop well or the heroes. Pretty much the hardest part of the game because controlling 1 character is not really difficult overall. Helps with the learning curve... I remember hating DOTA because there was too much crap.
Pretty fun overall, I played Gladiator and it's pretty easy to play + time stuns on retreating targets since you can drop the trap anywhere. First real game I had 1x/2x : K/D ratio which I figure isn't too bad for a first time against people who've played a ton of games.
Second game I was much worse because some dude called Fox (no idea who he is but apparently he's won some tournaments if what others said are true... either way he's much better than me) kept owning me. A bit hard to get used to it... I timed my traps but almost everytime I get the enemies down to like 100-200 HP because I don't do enough damage or try to kill them too quickly; need to work on better timing to kill... then he uses a whirlwind like attack and takes down my 1000HP in a couple of seconds T_T.
I'm not really big on MOBAs but I might pick up DOTA2 now, had a bunch of fun (although playing over skype with 10 people you know vs pubs was a huge difference this morning, jesus christ people are annoying).
On August 27 2011 01:45 Durak wrote: All right, I just watched the replay. The good news is that you're not that bad and that you've got good potential. The bad news is that your perception of the game is limited while you're playing. You don't have the game sense to see the entire picture yet but that'll come in time.
First off, you did well in lane but you didn't destroy hag. You were +-2 creep kills and denies for the first five minutes of the game. Neither of you really had an advantage. Then hag decided to try to gank bottom (she didn't have any wards at the runes and you had them both warded for the early game) and you stayed mid to farm. That's where you picked up a level on her. However, shortly afterwards, you went top for a gank and your team ended up giving up that lead. Even though you got a double tap, hag was around for three kills and ended up a level ahead of you. (This was part your fault and part your team's. You had terrible positioning when she first came in and then your team suicided at the tower after trying to help you) So basically you weren't "destroying" early game.
After that you ended up dying a bunch because of bad positioning and bad teamfights. Hag went one level in blink and three in haunt so once she blinked on top of you, you would die. It's better to not put yourself in that position but you also tried to run from her rather than killing her. If hag is leveling haunt, you won't be able to run from her tower to yours once she gets it on you and, conversely, if she blinks on you she won't be able to run away from flint. It would have been better for you to just flare+ult her.
I'll give more specifics if you ask for them but at the end of the game hag was 8/0/4 and you were 2/5/2. You lost because you spent a lot of time ganking/team fighting and losing them rather than farming. You were too squishy for most messy fights (flint is dependent on good positioning anyway) and it went downhill. Take-away: try and farm as efficiently as possible as a carry and then only fight when it's favorable or necessary.
Ahh, I was going off memory, apparently it's pretty bad, lol. And I did forget my team's terrible tower diving antics....I was facepaming pretty hard in-game, I suppose that's when she really got ahead though, it would make sense. I was under the impression i had outfarmed her pretty good though, maybe it's just my selective memory. So you're saying positioning was the major thing? What should I have done differently transitioning into midgame, just stay mid and farm? I hate doing that when my team is getting crapped on, or when I think I could get some easy kills/assists, but obviously what I did do didn't work at all either.
Playing mid in general is a pretty detailed topic. It's a balance between doing well in your own lane and trying to help other lanes. The thing is though, every lane is actually supposed to be doing that. Even if you're supporting your carry top lane as glacius, you still need to have good map awareness and move around.
I think your team was 4-0 or 5-0 at the start of the game. They really weren't in dire need. In fact, if you watch it from their perspective, their team was sorely in need of wards and were calling for ganks.
When you're ganking, you need to be aware of where the other team is, what items and abilities the other team has, what vision the other team has, what vision you have (to watch for backup), and so forth. The most important thing in low level games is vision. If their team doesn't see you coming you have a big advantage.
Let's use a hypothetical example similar to your game. You are flint, free farming mid, and have decent vision to watch for incoming ganks. If you leave mid to and gank another lane, the opportunity cost of that gank is all the experience and gold you could have received by free farming mid. A hard carry giving up free farm is obviously significant. If your gank is unsuccessful, especially early game when it takes lots of time to move between lanes, you lose out on a great deal of gold and experience.
That's not to say ganking is bad. You can actually get more gold and experience from a successful gank than by free farming. Hero kills (and even assists) are worth a lot outright and, additionally, allow your teammates time to farm before they return to the lane. The key is knowing when and where it is a good time to gank and how to set up a gank even if it's not the perfect time. This all ties back to vision. Basically you try and move to their lane without them knowing. You also have the runes which provide another big advantage but I won't bother going into it any more.
In this game, you didn't use the runes nor vision advantage effectively. Your ganks were detrimental rather than useful.
S2 has the worst, most moronic balance team imaginable. There has never been a hero released that was just decent in a good lineup.
Every single hero change they make is either to completely trash a hero or to make them OP as fuck.
Bomb was OP as fuck with boomdust, silhouette physical stun + numbers OP as fuck, myrmidon OP as fuck, engi when released was OP as fuck, this new centipede hero is bugged and thus OP, MoA is OP as fuck because the numbers are horrendously bugged (640 damage on acid bomb = 1 hero to destroy any push lineup from 1000+ range away). Rhapsody is strong as fuck, maybe not OP, kotf was changed into an OP hero and is now merely imbalanced in pubs.
Meanwhile monkey king is a piece of shit AND got nerfed so you can't do the bugged combo (another bug, surprise), engineer was nerfed into oblivion and is now a 500 range hero who sucks dick compared to any other support.
On August 27 2011 08:56 Ganfei2 wrote: S2 has the worst, most moronic balance team imaginable. There has never been a hero released that was just decent in a good lineup.
Every single hero change they make is either to completely trash a hero or to make them OP as fuck.
Bomb was OP as fuck with boomdust, silhouette physical stun + numbers OP as fuck, myrmidon OP as fuck, engi when released was OP as fuck, this new centipede hero is bugged and thus OP, MoA is OP as fuck because the numbers are horrendously bugged (640 damage on acid bomb = 1 hero to destroy any push lineup from 1000+ range away). Rhapsody is strong as fuck, maybe not OP, kotf was changed into an OP hero and is now merely imbalanced in pubs.
Meanwhile monkey king is a piece of shit AND got nerfed so you can't do the bugged combo (another bug, surprise), engineer was nerfed into oblivion and is now a 500 range hero who sucks dick compared to any other support.
I just don't understand their balance team.
And then youll go on and tell me how Dota is the best balanced game in the world, etc. right ?
Ill be honest with you, S2 are not the best balance team on earth, but theyre not horrrible at it either, and a lot of your comments are extremely unfounded (oh and did I say you developed a well thought out argumentation for each of them ?)
S2 needs to fix their auto-unstuck thing. Watching Hanni's stream and he ganks mid with an Ophelia as hellborn, legion mid runs into the treeline, gets blocked by the hellbourne mid and auto-unstuck makes him run straight up a cliff and escape the gank.
I've had it happen to me as Kraken so many times as well. Charge someone into a cliff, they get stunned then you're considered to be blocking them so they run up a cliff. Maybe put a 5 second delay on it?
Yup he's very strong. I had a game last night where Dev on my team got immortal. Doesn't change the fact that it's annoying when you hook someone up and they walk down the cliff you're on.
On August 27 2011 09:03 wonderwall wrote: S2 needs to fix their auto-unstuck thing. Watching Hanni's stream and he ganks mid with an Ophelia as hellborn, legion mid runs into the treeline, gets blocked by the hellbourne mid and auto-unstuck makes him run straight up a cliff and escape the gank.
I've had it happen to me as Kraken so many times as well. Charge someone into a cliff, they get stunned then you're considered to be blocking them so they run up a cliff. Maybe put a 5 second delay on it?
part of skill imo, opens up a bunch of new juke spots like right above sent mid ramp, above sent strong jungle camp, around south entrance to scourge jungle etc. maybe i just love juking too much <3
On August 27 2011 08:56 Ganfei2 wrote: S2 has the worst, most moronic balance team imaginable. There has never been a hero released that was just decent in a good lineup.
Every single hero change they make is either to completely trash a hero or to make them OP as fuck.
Bomb was OP as fuck with boomdust, silhouette physical stun + numbers OP as fuck, myrmidon OP as fuck, engi when released was OP as fuck, this new centipede hero is bugged and thus OP, MoA is OP as fuck because the numbers are horrendously bugged (640 damage on acid bomb = 1 hero to destroy any push lineup from 1000+ range away). Rhapsody is strong as fuck, maybe not OP, kotf was changed into an OP hero and is now merely imbalanced in pubs.
Meanwhile monkey king is a piece of shit AND got nerfed so you can't do the bugged combo (another bug, surprise), engineer was nerfed into oblivion and is now a 500 range hero who sucks dick compared to any other support.
I just don't understand their balance team.
And then youll go on and tell me how Dota is the best balanced game in the world, etc. right ?
Ill be honest with you, S2 are not the best balance team on earth, but theyre not horrrible at it either, and a lot of your comments are extremely unfounded (oh and did I say you developed a well thought out argumentation for each of them ?)
It's Ganfei. Anyways regarding the balance gripes, it happens in every game. If the community is worth anything, they'll work with it. DotA has to deal with this every release of new heroes too, but Icefrog usually does a good job of clearing up the meta when a certain strategy is being used too often, usually the more abusive, the quicker the balance.
I don't know jack shit about DOTA and I never claimed to, so let's keep the projections out of this.
Currently geomancer and monkey are both bugged. Armadon was bugged twice. Puppet was bugged. Alchemist bones was bugged. Lego's charge was bugged.
There are many more examples but I'm not willing to try to remember them at the moment. The point is that literally every single week S2 breaks the game in some way. Other companies have problems, and bugs, and glitches, but they don't release a weekly patch rife with bugs and glitches. S2 has done so, consistently, for months.
How exactly does a company change an item and then release the patch, and end up having the item's use result in the crashing of the server for all users? How does S2 change a hero and have the result be that the use of the new skill permanently kicks the player out of the game?
Is anything even tested....at all? How is geomancer bugged where his DoT skill is supposed to not affect units over a certain movespeed....but affects all units at all movespeeds? Does ANYONE play the hero before its released? SBT is an absolute joke, I was a member for about a week long before S2 started recruiting people from the forums. I then left it because it was so stupid.
Like....the errors aren't small, they aren't unimportant. The error KICKS people from the game PERMANENTLY. Or the error lets you do 1000+ damage at level 2. Or the error let's you kick everyone from the game and have the game go unrecorded.
And S2 doesn't fix the problems in any timely fashion. Some S2 member responded to the bug report about Monkey King and Geomancer and said they'd be fixed in the patch....next week. So for a week we're going to have these idiotic bugs that could he hotfixed in a couple hours.
Lastly, to address auto-unstuck....too bad it's also a piece of shit, and HON pathing is shit as well. The other day I got stuck in between a catapult and a single melee creep and I was unable to move until the creep had died. Then TODAY, I got stuck in between two creeps, and couldn't move til one had died. TWO CREEPS. |me|. Can't move up, can't move down. Just stuck in my 2D world.
i'm sorry ganfei didn't know you thought computers worked like one person going Oh i bug, ez fix just change this one line of code herp derp 5 mins of work, lol i get payed for this $2. =p s2 doesn't have enough people to run though every patch to find all bugs it's why bugs are found and patched after nearly every patch they don't have enough people to have 24/7 on call instant fixes to shit, just due to more people playing increases the chances people find bugs and hopefully report them. Their hero creation is quite sketchy either the hero will never be used in competitive games or nearly always, frankly i think s2 balances like mvc2 make everything powerful and fuck and let the people bash their heads in trying to come up with tiers.
On August 27 2011 14:59 Ganfei2 wrote: The balance gripes?
I don't know jack shit about DOTA and I never claimed to, so let's keep the projections out of this.
Currently geomancer and monkey are both bugged. Armadon was bugged twice. Puppet was bugged. Alchemist bones was bugged. Lego's charge was bugged.
There are many more examples but I'm not willing to try to remember them at the moment. The point is that literally every single week S2 breaks the game in some way. Other companies have problems, and bugs, and glitches, but they don't release a weekly patch rife with bugs and glitches. S2 has done so, consistently, for months.
How exactly does a company change an item and then release the patch, and end up having the item's use result in the crashing of the server for all users? How does S2 change a hero and have the result be that the use of the new skill permanently kicks the player out of the game?
Is anything even tested....at all? How is geomancer bugged where his DoT skill is supposed to not affect units over a certain movespeed....but affects all units at all movespeeds? Does ANYONE play the hero before its released? SBT is an absolute joke, I was a member for about a week long before S2 started recruiting people from the forums. I then left it because it was so stupid.
Like....the errors aren't small, they aren't unimportant. The error KICKS people from the game PERMANENTLY. Or the error lets you do 1000+ damage at level 2. Or the error let's you kick everyone from the game and have the game go unrecorded.
And S2 doesn't fix the problems in any timely fashion. Some S2 member responded to the bug report about Monkey King and Geomancer and said they'd be fixed in the patch....next week. So for a week we're going to have these idiotic bugs that could he hotfixed in a couple hours.
Lastly, to address auto-unstuck....too bad it's also a piece of shit, and HON pathing is shit as well. The other day I got stuck in between a catapult and a single melee creep and I was unable to move until the creep had died. Then TODAY, I got stuck in between two creeps, and couldn't move til one had died. TWO CREEPS. |me|. Can't move up, can't move down. Just stuck in my 2D world.
the anti-stuck, whiling having the occasional bug, is actually pretty decent, here is a taste of the alternative
EPT
.![[image loading]](http://i30.tinypic.com/2u40mya.jpg)
