ccm won 2-0. global strat with dual lane mid wouldve been cool to see work but nooo ccm has to play good, oh well great game. game 2 was not good
Forgot nobody posts during the day for this thread, just assumed.
Dual lane mid is a risky risky proposition, how was the rune control from that?
bad, actually there wasnt much of a rune game but dk sagged early game and lost 3 towers pretty quickly to ccm who were playing neo-nv.cn style fast aggressive tower pushing but shifted into a survive-global-strat mode into the late game. i think dk was planning to lose top and get even on mid and bottom lanes, try to get spectre to radiance but spectres radiance game 25 minutes into the game
Wait, they ran spec mid?
DK - CCM top clockwerk vs VS, AA, enigma jungle (switch with morph at end of early game) mid visage/zeus vs SF bottom furion (tping around), spectre vs Morph
That is some dumbfuck laning. Breaking even on mid does NOTHING for DK, waste of a Visage lane. Should have swapped bot and mid.
they beat mid. the problem is they didnt adapt to enigma and so they had very little to stop those early pushes. visage shouldve went bottom for trilane and tried to force the scourge tower with furion in my opinion, but i dont know if it wouldve made too much a difference in the game. dk's kills were a little ahead in the mid and starting late game
What does that do though? Even if they beat SF mid (hurray, you beat a hero that has stupidly good midgame farm capabilities), it does little to get around the fact that your CW is playing catching up which you needed to keep some stupid ganking or pushing from happening because your only decent aoe comes from missile (unless you want Zeus spamming out) versus an AA that can pretty much just keep you from staying in any lane for too long with just minimal ganking or even just showing ganks.
Visage going bot means that SF has room to farm and increase the AoE mid game capabilities of CCM which DK needed to minimize. Timing was off, it's SF recovery versus CW recovery with the Spec factor which really doesn't matter as much since you have gayshit AA to deal with the first few fights of a Radiance Spectre, since Furion is free and so is Zeus. All of which Morph has you by the balls because you have 0 effective strategies against it mid-late to late.
Looks good on paper but shitty in game progression, short of CCM just giving up on towers, DK had a pretty tough fight.
CW isn't really playing catchup, as the game progresses his spells don't scale up and is there as a gank-support. Count on the global strat+gank to dull the effectiveness of supports who always have to stick around somebody else (in fact props to CCM for their item builds). AA's ult doesn't make teamfights free, it just makes them a lot easier to win, and he becomes a slight liability because of the weak strength gain.
The point of pushing down bottom tower is to allow more space for Spectre to farm Radiance faster and break the pushing momentum which put DK behind, had Spectre gotten Radiance 2 minutes faster DK probably would've won. Lanes were not that concrete for DK to not switch around some heroes since Furion was doing it anyway. Teamfights weren't such a problem besides getting caught in a perfect Black Hole, the fact that they could not deal with any early and mid pushing without Radiance was.
Edit: I forgot to mention the early Courier kill with Furion was done.
what item builds are you guys going on nomad? I've seen him built differently almost every game and I myself have only gotten around to playing him once. I went ptreads, vanguard, battlefury, sny, butterfly (iirc) but going vanguard may have been too conservative.. He doesn't seem to be a wtfbbq hero late game from what I've seen so far. Secondary carry that shines mid-game maybe?
Also, if you have attack modifiers and exclusive modifiers, then you can only stack 2 orbs (like skadi + lifesteal) from the exclsuvive modifier pool? Actually what combination of double orbs can you get, in dota terms that is (so sny + maelstorm would be one).
what item builds are you guys going on nomad? I've seen him built differently almost every game and I myself have only gotten around to playing him once. I went ptreads, vanguard, battlefury, sny, butterfly (iirc) but going vanguard may have been too conservative.. He doesn't seem to be a wtfbbq hero late game from what I've seen so far. Secondary carry that shines mid-game maybe?
Also, if you have attack modifiers and exclusive modifiers, then you can only stack 2 orbs (like skadi + lifesteal) from the exclsuvive modifier pool? Actually what combination of double orbs can you get, in dota terms that is (so sny + maelstorm would be one).
ive seem him rape train late game, because of his invis +attackdmg boost by%+ attack speed. the nomad did go shroud that game though, but probably because he was against a solo bubbles in lane. ( bubbles auto loses to nomad[because take cover doesn't block illusion harass])
maelstorm/mjoll stacks with all other non-lightning procs diffusal stacks with all other non-manadrain procs lifesteal and skadi are both attack modifiers and do not stack the hon terminology is pretty clear on all of this, not sure where your confusion comes from. hon is not dota
the one item that absolutely shines on nomad is shieldbreaker - as you said his strength is the midgame for various reasons, and while there are many options and viable builds it is the one item that maximizes his damage output in the phase of the game the hero works best in.
Well... I thought I understood it but then I've seen magebane going lifesteal and
life steal = attack modifier manaburn = exclusive modifier
so I am confused. Can I go nullfire + lifesteal or is that only for magebane? I wanted to know since there are games where you get an orb other than lifesteal and if for some reason the game drags on... late game, lifesteal is king.
On April 13 2011 11:28 Heen wrote: Well... I thought I understood it but then I've seen magebane going lifesteal and
life steal = attack modifier manaburn = exclusive modifier
so I am confused. Can I go nullfire + lifesteal or is that only for magebane? I wanted to know since there are games where you get an orb other than lifesteal and if for some reason the game drags on... late game, lifesteal is king.
You can go nullfire + lifesteal on any hero. However, you cannot go nullfire on magebane. Nullfire stacks with any orb, same with magebane's thing. Vlad's works with any orb, but only affects melee units
Other orbs never stack and you have to rotate them with .
lightning stacks with everything in dota iirc basically in hon you can have manaburn + lightning + bash + one of (lifesteal, slow, -magic armor, -physical armor) and vlads i suppose.
On April 13 2011 16:17 JeeJee wrote: lightning stacks with everything in dota iirc basically in hon you can have manaburn + lightning + bash + one of (lifesteal, slow, -magic armor, -physical armor) and vlads i suppose.
ah. i guess ranged skadi stacked with a bunch of things. i forget though, had a chart somewhere. in hon it makes a little more sense, grab any exclusive modifiers and one attack modifier
On April 13 2011 16:22 JeeJee wrote: ah. i guess ranged skadi stacked with a bunch of things. i forget though, had a chart somewhere. in hon it makes a little more sense, grab any exclusive modifiers and one attack modifier
So, I have found the greatest lineup in dota, that is near uncounterable.
The heroes are:
PA Gondar Tide Sniper Techies
Laning: Gondar Solo against trilane. (Just Spam WW and you wont die!) PA solo. (He can easily deal with heroes like Storm and is very difficult to kill.) Tide+Sniper against solo. (Sniper can get freefarm) Techies Jungle/pull (It allows you to keep the creeps on your side. Also, Tech can push very well)
Why it is overpowered? We have excellent lategame, with 4 carries and an a solid teamfight stun from Tide. We also can turtle very well thanks to sniper and Techies. Finally, Its very difficult to stop this team from farming thanks to the excellent vision from techies and of course the imba track.
We have tank, support, carries, gankers. Everything really. Its perfect. Of course getting access to these heroes could be difficult. I know that Gondar is permabanned most games, but with luck, your opponent will choose to use relatively weak heroes like Invoker or Windrunner, who dies very quickly to this lineup. Anyone watched an old Lgd game where gondar 2 hitted a very farmed WR? Yes, with my lineup, I can quickly kill off opponents wihout problems, especially lategame.
Generally if techies gets agha+dagger very fast then its instant win. 6 second stun from statis trap is truly broken. During this time, sniper with MoM can inflict crazy damage from afar.
Heroes i need to ban: Spectre, Void, Pl as these are very powerful lategame heroes. Venge, bat, lion for their strong initiation on sniper.
i'm normally on youtube when i'm tabbed waiting for games to be found. here's a series of videos which is basically about people getting trolled in hon made by a person named smyger.
not sure if it's been shared with the thread yet...
On April 14 2011 06:21 shimamoto wrote: i'm normally on youtube when i'm tabbed waiting for games to be found. here's a series of videos which is basically about people getting trolled in hon made by a person named smyger.
not sure if it's been shared with the thread yet...
EPT
