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On March 26 2011 11:02 GARO wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 10:55 rabidch wrote:
sun ray + heartstopper aura = roasted centaur phoenix so fun to fry tanky heroes with holy shit, I want to play some dota over hon now
we also burnt through a late game spectre w/radiance pretty quickly, he was pretty bad though, although it is kind of hard to move once you're in ray + other slows
point is pheonix is such a zoning hero although i havent really correctly used firebirds so far, they're really hard to use in their current state with all of my concentration on using sun ray correctly
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On March 26 2011 13:07 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 11:02 GARO wrote:On March 26 2011 10:55 rabidch wrote:
sun ray + heartstopper aura = roasted centaur phoenix so fun to fry tanky heroes with holy shit, I want to play some dota over hon now we also burnt through a late game spectre w/radiance pretty quickly, he was pretty bad though, although it is kind of hard to move once you're in ray + other slows point is pheonix is such a zoning hero although i havent really correctly used firebirds so far, they're really hard to use in their current state with all of my concentration on using sun ray correctly
The most affective way I've seen birds used is a timed dive so the birds hit all at once against a hero.
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On March 26 2011 13:25 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 13:07 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 11:02 GARO wrote:On March 26 2011 10:55 rabidch wrote:
sun ray + heartstopper aura = roasted centaur phoenix so fun to fry tanky heroes with holy shit, I want to play some dota over hon now we also burnt through a late game spectre w/radiance pretty quickly, he was pretty bad though, although it is kind of hard to move once you're in ray + other slows point is pheonix is such a zoning hero although i havent really correctly used firebirds so far, they're really hard to use in their current state with all of my concentration on using sun ray correctly The most affective way I've seen birds used is a timed dive so the birds hit all at once against a hero.
i've tried that and it's not really effective* at all, you dont do that much damage and if somebody knows its coming he should stay away from it, also it assumes you've spent a lot of points in dive/birds and mid game like i said this isnt that effective. im gonna keep experimenting but my money is that sun ray is the most important thing about pheonix, you can do a ray -> birds to kill without getting too close, which you should NEVER do with sun ray (always keep your distance). im just trying to try different builds with in dive or birds. item builds are usually arcane boots/soul ring into high hp regen (im liking mek since it gives +4 and armor) then guinsoo late game. i tried treads but unless you're going some silly carry build its not as effective as arcane boots for the mid game roasting
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On March 26 2011 13:46 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 13:25 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 13:07 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 11:02 GARO wrote:On March 26 2011 10:55 rabidch wrote:
sun ray + heartstopper aura = roasted centaur phoenix so fun to fry tanky heroes with holy shit, I want to play some dota over hon now we also burnt through a late game spectre w/radiance pretty quickly, he was pretty bad though, although it is kind of hard to move once you're in ray + other slows point is pheonix is such a zoning hero although i havent really correctly used firebirds so far, they're really hard to use in their current state with all of my concentration on using sun ray correctly The most affective way I've seen birds used is a timed dive so the birds hit all at once against a hero. i've tried that and it's not really effective* at all, you dont do that much damage and if somebody knows its coming he should stay away from it, also it assumes you've spent a lot of points in dive/birds and mid game like i said this isnt that effective. im gonna keep experimenting but my money is that sun ray is the most important thing about pheonix, you can do a ray -> birds to kill without getting too close, which you should NEVER do with sun ray (always keep your distance). im just trying to try different builds with in dive or birds. item builds are usually arcane boots/soul ring into high hp regen (im liking mek since it gives +4 and armor) then guinsoo late game. i tried treads but unless you're going some silly carry build its not as effective as arcane boots for the mid game roasting
Well I mean offensively that's the most effective I've seen it used, 300 damage (after innate magic resistance) isn't so bad if it all hits one target. I personally would rather use it to heal. Still though, what's the AoE on the birds, 400 iirc? Cause I imagine it's a bit hard to dodge dive/bird if it's timed just so when you stop it hits.
What's your skill build with Phoenix btw? Cause' IIRC leveling up dive doesn't increase range or speed, just the duration of the pseudo disable. If you go something like 1 to dive, 4/4 bird/ray, I would imagine that'd be pretty reckage in lane every 10 seconds at level 9/10?
I don't hate playing against Phoenix, but I don't particularly like it either. He's more annoying than a Viper when ganking, and in a team fight ray is kinda annoying, not to mention I find that birds always heal just enough for the opp to live or release another spell, or mebe I'm just unlucky. Nova is definitely like Ravage but on the contrary to what you said earlier, if you fight in the nova it would do more than the ravage no? I haven't played many "good" phoenix players though so it's not that bad. Generally it's the scrubs that misposition the supernova or isn't that great with ray.
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im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum
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On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum
Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec.
Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom.
I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place.
btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz.
Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think?
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On March 26 2011 15:15 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec. Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom. I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place. btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz. Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think?
i think you should type less
nova sucks for initiation 99% of the time. it makes this FUOOOOOOOUUUUUUFOOOOOOOOOOO sound everybody can hear it and it takes 6 seconds to go off.
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On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum
40 second cooldown on phoenix dive <3 FTW
I'm just gonna go ahead and say I revolutionized phoenix playstyle, been running that sun ray first build since hero came out
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On March 26 2011 16:26 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 15:15 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec. Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom. I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place. btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz. Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think? i think you should type less nova sucks for initiation 99% of the time. it makes this FUOOOOOOOUUUUUUFOOOOOOOOOOO sound everybody can hear it and it takes 6 seconds to go off.
I talk a lot in person, so I type a lot on the interwebs! I'm going to disagree, I think it's great in the place I mentioned. If people decide to just run in said places, at least 1 is going to get picked off and then it'll be 4v5.
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On March 26 2011 16:29 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 16:26 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 15:15 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec. Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom. I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place. btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz. Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think? i think you should type less nova sucks for initiation 99% of the time. it makes this FUOOOOOOOUUUUUUFOOOOOOOOOOO sound everybody can hear it and it takes 6 seconds to go off. I talk a lot in person, so I type a lot on the interwebs! I'm going to disagree, I think it's great in the place I mentioned. If people decide to just run in said places, at least 1 is going to get picked off and then it'll be 4v5.
or they can tp out. basically anything but this spell would be better
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On March 26 2011 16:35 rabidch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 16:29 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 16:26 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 15:15 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec. Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom. I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place. btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz. Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think? i think you should type less nova sucks for initiation 99% of the time. it makes this FUOOOOOOOUUUUUUFOOOOOOOOOOO sound everybody can hear it and it takes 6 seconds to go off. I talk a lot in person, so I type a lot on the interwebs! I'm going to disagree, I think it's great in the place I mentioned. If people decide to just run in said places, at least 1 is going to get picked off and then it'll be 4v5. or they can tp out. basically anything but this spell would be better
It's a team fight? I'm sure your team mates can take care of one tping hero.
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On March 26 2011 17:50 [TYG]Transcend wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2011 16:35 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 16:29 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 16:26 rabidch wrote:On March 26 2011 15:15 [TYG]Transcend wrote:On March 26 2011 14:44 rabidch wrote:
im still really bad at using nova (or maybe its because i have to rely on crap friends), but
the damage is slightly higher than ravage but its non instantaneous. i think you forget theres a bit of difference between burst and non burst damage. the thing is the 2 heroes are very different, the ults can be compared but that was just my initial thoughts on pheonix
i've been trying 1-4-4-1 and so on, solo lane mid.
edit:
the thing that bothers me about the ult is that its not very useful in teamfights, i feel ray is much more productive and safer form of damage, nova is just there to attempt to bail you out/other team's ultimatum Yeah I know what you mean, when you're in Nova you need support to make sure you stay alive. Phoenix in a way is very team dependent. I mean, you can't kill anyone on your own, you need a stunner or dps to take someone down; otherwise they'll tp. With Nova if your team mates aren't watching out for you then you're basically dead, at level 3 sure it's 9 hits but by then people attack much faster than 1hit/sec. Yeah I know what you mean. In the instance where ravage lands and Nova lands, that one burst Ravage does more damage, and depending on the situation that is much more preferred. Depending on the line up though, I think I'd rather have a Phoenix on my team in most situations. I mean, for one thing Phoenix is range. He has an innate escape mech and a pseudo disable. He has a heal/nuke. Generally speaking, the only reason I see getting a TH over Phoenix is if we needed the instantaneous AoE stun. Don't get me wrong, that stun is amazing, great way to initiate, but Phoenix just brings more to the table than a TH does. I can see a roaming Phoenix be as good or better than a roaming TH, but I will admit the armor reduction is nice with Gush. The other situation where I'd get a TH is...I guess against a DB and we really do need a large AoE stun. A doomed Phoenix is so useless. Kraken just laughs at Doom. I think starting off a team fight with Nova is situational. It depends where you're fighting. If you can position yourself well and land the resulting stun, then start it off with that. Otherwise it's as you say, not as efficient as Ray. The damage output you'll get with ray will be higher than with Nova most of the time in the end. The stun is just too nice to give up if you can land it, plus the damage you get from the nova waves. If it's early-mid and the fight is in mid river for the tier 3 tower, then I'd be a dick with ray for a bit but when the fight actually initiates I'd drop Nova for sure. I think the position is just great in that area. You can do it near tower, up the ramp, up the other ramp, in the sent juke spot, in the scourge juke spot, even in either side's cliff if it meanders a little bit outside. There's a lot of options and you can get to each one with a dive most of the time, then you can get back into the fight with ray. My favorite definitely has to be river team fights when they happen. BOTH sides is a cliff and it's not wide enough to escape the stun just by moving from sde to side. The worst places to initiate with Nova is the open areas of the jungles and the side lanes, it's just too easy to reach you. But then again, you never know. I think Nova needs practice and instincts to do well, cause you're a sitting duck if you don't do it at the right time in the right place. btw Shinbz uz a fag, go dl some dotacashz. Edit: Yeah I think 1-4-4-1 is the best build. There's really no reason to level up Dive early cause it's not substantial enough. Granted, I'm thinking going 1 dive, stats/ray until ulti isn't so bad if you do decide to go roam. What do you think? i think you should type less nova sucks for initiation 99% of the time. it makes this FUOOOOOOOUUUUUUFOOOOOOOOOOO sound everybody can hear it and it takes 6 seconds to go off. I talk a lot in person, so I type a lot on the interwebs! I'm going to disagree, I think it's great in the place I mentioned. If people decide to just run in said places, at least 1 is going to get picked off and then it'll be 4v5. or they can tp out. basically anything but this spell would be better It's a team fight? I'm sure your team mates can take care of one tping hero.
if its a teamfight you just sunray to initiate. unless you're trapping them with a spell or long ult like fissure or chronosphere with a team initiation (which btw new scaling might make void viable once the imbo bans get nerfed) there isnt a point to it because you're always going to do more damage with sun ray + slow them for the easy pick off rather than being useless for 6 seconds and allowing the other team to react faster. its a measly 2 second stun at level 2, i dont even know what you're smoking with the stun being good, the best thing about supernova is the damage + full hp and mana and being in a magic immune status to dodge shit
seriously how many games of phoenix have you played
A doomed Phoenix is so useless.
really now tygs i think you're a genius
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United States717 Posts
I really can't believe how many people are in favor of the removal of the zero minute rune. As soon as mids realize that ganking them is the only damn thing we can do at the start of the game and hang back till we're seen in lane a very fun part of the game is utterly ruined. I frankly don't give a shit about the professional scene, they should play by different rules if they want but I'm playing to have FUN. Ruining the game is a shitty way to develop it.
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I think removal of the 00:00 rune isn't a bad change, but maybe they could've made it only for tournament mode 
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On March 26 2011 19:09 Melancholia wrote:
I really can't believe how many people are in favor of the removal of the zero minute rune. As soon as mids realize that ganking them is the only damn thing we can do at the start of the game and hang back till we're seen in lane a very fun part of the game is utterly ruined. I frankly don't give a shit about the professional scene, they should play by different rules if they want but I'm playing to have FUN. Ruining the game is a shitty way to develop it.
This is why I tried to write in caps.. the game is _not_ ruined, and like many have reasoned on the pages before, it is overall a good change. Fun != luck.
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On March 26 2011 19:09 Melancholia wrote:
I really can't believe how many people are in favor of the removal of the zero minute rune. As soon as mids realize that ganking them is the only damn thing we can do at the start of the game and hang back till we're seen in lane a very fun part of the game is utterly ruined. I frankly don't give a shit about the professional scene, they should play by different rules if they want but I'm playing to have FUN. Ruining the game is a shitty way to develop it.
What? So you prefer to lose mid thanks to the opponent getting DD/illu rune at 00:00?
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Phoenix's Nova as initiate is ONLY good if you have Blink Dagger cover and I mean like something vicious to warrant them to pull off of focusing you. That said, you'd also need some shitty spacing on their part. I would imagine setting up a zone trap, using nova as a follow up after/if you catch someone important to fuck with their rotations in, is better. That hero punishes poor rotations, like coming in one or two at a time, severely.
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Iron Curtain -> Red carpet lolol
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JIZZNIGMA
ty for the stream
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EPT
