EPT[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1125
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
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paper
13196 Posts
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Etherone
United States1898 Posts
On December 26 2010 06:50 Judicator wrote: People who claim HoN MM is better than DotA clearly never played a game outside of pubs and pugs. you hear that testie you're an idiot pub | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22208 Posts
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
 What are some good items for blacksmith? I just played a long game with him and ended up just using the recommended items list, getting stormspirit + randomly getting an astrolabe + finally a sheepstick. I've heard sacrificial stone and harkon's are good on him though. Since my team had flint and chronos I tried to stick to a more support heavy route though, we ended up losing even though we had more kills and were just starting to destroy the other team in team battles because during midgame we were hurting and lost two rax, eventually in last team battle we got a genocide but the creeps killed our base. The opposing team ran a lineup of swiftblade (their best player), tempest (with refresher + blink), devourer, engineer and slither. I think that's why we lost midgame so much, we got raped by super ults everywhere on us. My priorities were frenzies on flint and chronos and I would stormspirit or stun either tempest or swiftblade, chronos sometimes got good ults though and got all their people and flint could pick off the people that were more dangerous. So basically I just wondering about items / any tips in a game like that. Then next thing is just a concept question, I know puzzlebox is good on Tundra and it was good on him in DotA as well but I'm just wondering the reason it's a good item. It gives strength and intelligence and of course the two minions are very useful (the question is for me though, how useful). It gives him pushing power I guess after strong ganking power? Iunno if I'm completely wrong on whatever I'm saying I'm just trying to learn to game a bit more so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm assuming runed axe is unnecessary since you already have the ice shards or wild axes or whatever they're called, and hmm dunno what any other good item alternatives would be. I just do puzzlebox and heart but I don't really know why it's good, if anyone could help that'd be cool :D I guess I might as well just ask about other general things as well for other heroes I've been playing recently and need some help on. Moraxus I've mostly been doing blood chalice so I can use the axes a lot and getting blink dagger since I felt that the stun was hard to get off without it. Then going into some tankey items and stuff, like barrier idol / heart depending on if the other team is more magic / physical. Is null unneccessary because you already have that one skill that blocks magic? Hmm actually I may have been getting shrunken too, but I'm not sure, I don't think I did in the games I played him I think most of the time I got barrier idol instead. Is shrunken good or does he not need it considering his ult + the null ability thing? Maybe even frostfield plate could be a good choice or assault cuirass if they have a kind of glass team. Glacius I've gotten quite a few times recently and god I just suck at him, I don't know why since he shouldn't be that hard to play from what I've heard . . . read some guides that recommended the 1 level of aoe, 1 level of mana regen, 1 level of frostbite, then 2 more levels of mana regen. I'm very bad with him though when I do that because he's slow movespeed and a pretty crappy attack animation I think and I die a lot. I guess I should spam the shit out of the aoe attack or something to get last hits and some harass but after the heroes are like level 3 the damage seems minimal to enemy heroes. And for builds I think I've been going some courier/wards/minor totem which I can later use to make plated greaves and astrolabe, and then I get ring of basilius but I'm not sure that's needed, is it overkill since he's already got such good mana regen? More wards of course, and it seems like since I'm not focusing as much on last hitting as on denying (so my lane mate can farm), my boots come sooooo late that I've already maybe died a few times because of low movespeed and me just sucking with glacius. Maybe I should skip the ring of basilius and get maybe a bracer instead for survivability or just go boots instead? Not sure . . . although after that I've heard he's supposed to just ward whore and that's all he needs. Wanna ask a little about flint too, I remember in DotA I read a guide that said to get headshot / long range skill maxed first before getting cannonball or flare or whatever it's called now, but it seems like all the people I watch now (including I saw a rep of testie) get the headshot + flare. I guess it makes sense since the range early on is really unneeded, he already has like 570 range or something when I checked while watching testie's rep. Obviously I can't emulate testie who just went like, minor totems + duck boots -> bottle (I guess I don't need this since I don't mid usually) -> steamboots -> wingbow. I think what I've been doing is going SnY (I read that on a guide somewhere) but back in DotA I would go for the stygian desolator. Also I forgot to mention that I get assassin's shroud first if I'm having surviviability problems. So kinda like bracers (? might be the agility ones, I feel like it'd be better to get the agility ones to help last hit but on the other hand you might need survivability, not too sure though since you're shooting from long range you should be ok) -> boots -> (assassin's shroud) -> SnY/desolator -> wingbow. So not really sure on what I should be going after boots, maybe it's more match dependent than I think. And would crit items stack with when you get a crit from the headshot skill? just wondering. Demented shaman is one of the heroes I'm comfortable with and I usually go minor totems -> plated greaves -> astrolabe -> sheepstick/staff of the master or whatever. Kind of wondering how good a tablet of command would be? Gives some good intelligence stats and I could push people into creeps and heal them, also I've seen some people use tablet to escape over cliffs and whatnot. Never used it before though so I'm a bit hesitant, not sure how far the range is or how easy it is to use, etc. Puppet master is interesting, I didn't get to see any testie reps since they're basically all corrupted or whatever / can't download, but I've been doing like bracers -> bottle -> steamboots -> shrunken head -> harkon's. I just read that on a guide somewhere lol, I guess the shrunken head is optional based on the matchup, I saw another guide say that assassin's shroud is pretty sweet on him because you can crit the puppet ult in one hit. Need some help here though I don't really understand why this stuff would be good on him. Wretched hag I watched a testie rep and he went for staff of the master and stuff (I don't totally remember the order he went in or what he made, I think it was a short 19 minute game though) but I've been going steamboots -> nullstone -> frostwulf or something. Thoughts? Ok I think that's about it that covers most of the heroes I have questions about! thx i know you people dont like to talk strategy in this thread but please do it for me!!! :3 :D | ||
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VorcePA
United States1102 Posts
On December 26 2010 16:56 Superiorwolf wrote: What are some good items for blacksmith? I just played a long game with him and ended up just using the recommended items list, getting stormspirit + randomly getting an astrolabe + finally a sheepstick. I've heard sacrificial stone and harkon's are good on him though. Since my team had flint and chronos I tried to stick to a more support heavy route though, we ended up losing even though we had more kills and were just starting to destroy the other team in team battles because during midgame we were hurting and lost two rax, eventually in last team battle we got a genocide but the creeps killed our base. The opposing team ran a lineup of swiftblade (their best player), tempest (with refresher + blink), devourer, engineer and slither. I think that's why we lost midgame so much, we got raped by super ults everywhere on us. My priorities were frenzies on flint and chronos and I would stormspirit or stun either tempest or swiftblade, chronos sometimes got good ults though and got all their people and flint could pick off the people that were more dangerous. So basically I just wondering about items / any tips in a game like that. Stormspirit is basically blacksmith's core. The items I aim for are: - Stormspirit - Ghost marchers - Blood Chalice / Power Supply* - Null stone Games typically don't last long enough for me to get anything beyond that but if they do my next items after those would be a Behemoth's heart and then a hellflower. These items give you all the necessary mana regen you'll need for a good while. Once you have the null stone it becomes pretty hard to run dry, but even with just your passive mana regen + a stormspirit you'll be able to hunt people down and stay at least for a little bit. Marchers + level 4 frenzy + stormspirit == something like 500 movespeed (just under max move speed), so unless they have a haste rune or something, you can chase them down for your team mates, because you'll have a stun, a disable, and a slow with that combination. * Blood chalice/power supply -- picking one just depends on what opponents you're facing. They both lose their power the longer the game goes on and you get more mana regen, so you shouldn't really base your decision on what's going to be happening in the mid game (IE, ganks and team fights). Just choose the one for the first early laning phase. If you get someone like thunderbringer or armadon or any other spammy hero, power supply is the way to go. If instead you find yourself laning against heroes with spells that have massive mana costs (Magmus, Succubus) or early they pick a passive ability, (Swiftblade, night hound), blood chalice is the way to go. | ||
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Superiorwolf
United States5509 Posts
Ya, I forgot to mention that I did start off with null talisman parts and got a blood chalice asap, but in retrospect I should have gotten a power supply as you suggested versus spam heavy heroes. We were laning against swiftblade / slither, but the slither was maxing toxin wards asap to push all the towers so a power supply would've been better than a blood chalice in that situation! | ||
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Entertaining
Canada793 Posts
PK on moraxes is a geat item, if u dont have an initiator ur team will be epecting u to pick it up. I wouldnt get more than a helmoftheblacklegion on him because his ult and stat gain already makes him super tanky, more tank items would be overkill. If i need tank items i grab a deamonic breastplate. Though if im carrying i just grab shieldbreaker for pure DPS. Glacius isnt used in pub games.. Its realllllyyy hard to not feed with glacius with every1 diving u for kills to up their KD in pubs. u are just supposed to buy wards and roam around stacking creeps but when i get glacius i only put one in his regen aura and then take his blast/freeze for last hits. get some of ur own farm, his ult with shruken doesnt screw around. Tablet on dshaman kinda situational.. if ur against a pharoh or need to interrupt a tempest's ult id grab it but since it doesnt have a major totem in it anymore it doesnt give decent stats so its pretty rare to see anyone pick it up these days. shroud on puppet is lols. ive been oneshot by it so many times while playing squishy heroes, stupid 900damage one hits. that builds fine if u have time to turtle if u dont grab alkemist bones. the attack speed it gives isnt bad either. i wouldnt get bottle on him unless ur mid. not much else i can say dont play him much. ur hag build is the one i use :D Usually only grab a stom when im against pushing teams where i need the ult every 5 seconds. its never a bad item tho. hag semi carry ftw. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 26 2010 17:32 Entertaining wrote: Glacius isnt used in pub games.. Its realllllyyy hard to not feed with glacius with every1 diving u for kills to up their KD in pubs. u are just supposed to buy wards and roam around stacking creeps but when i get glacius i only put one in his regen aura and then take his blast/freeze for last hits. get some of ur own farm, his ult with shruken doesnt screw around. glacius -> freeze self -> turn on shrunken -> turn on ulti makes the opponents shiver :D (see what I did there?) I believe in a pub my brother was "good" enough to carry glacius for the lulz o_O then again meh. pubs are generally filled with carry vs carry silliness (or nuke/gankers vs nuke/gankers or a combination of them like carry vs nuke/gankers or something). generally pubs don't really care about wards or courier. as in. one pub I was fooling around in, (we were kinda trolling EM before it disappeared). we were like "get wards" and someone was like "we're not pro enough to use them" and I was like "........." (and I'm just playing in the 1500 range here - and I play nostats since the people I play with don't like stats... and I don't want to play in pubs.) so *shrug* | ||
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hideo
Canada1641 Posts
I really like portal key (sometimes tablet of command) on blacksmith... synergizes nicely with storm spirit (doubles as escape + catching mechanism). I kind of like to play him in an annoying, high-mobility ninja style (a bit like thunderbringer), really great for ganking, chasing, and picking off out-of-position supports on the edges of team fights. I sometimes skip storm spirit in favour of bottle if i manage to snag solo mid, which I feel is a highly adequate source of mana especially when combined with blood chalice. Storm spirit itself is good because it's a decent source of mana, and the move speed stacks nicely with his buff, but you should always aim for the sheepstick once you hit late game. It's the penultimate late game item for anyone that's not a dps carry. You can play him in more of a tank style as well, but I don't know much about its viability. Puzzlebox is good on tundra for several reasons: First off, he can realize the minions dps fully, due to one fairly long disable, and a reliable slow which will keep the target in place to be beat on. Second, he becomes an absolute aura monster once he puts some items together, which makes pushes amazingly strong and/or buffs your carry. Movespeed/Attackspeed boost from the minions stacks with his own attack speed aura (dota only i guess) and daemonic breastplate or abyssal skull which are frequently built on him. Deliberately going for an aura stacking style is a really good idea if you've got say an andromeda on your team. Third, mana burn can help you trigger nullstones to pave the way for your almighty ultimate. Another key item that you might consider is a portal key, e.g. if you've got to initiate for your team, or if they've got a flint or a blink initiator that's really sensitive to positioning that you can easily find with your bird. The key to a good tundra is how well you use your bird to gain vision advantage. It's really really powerful because it allows your team to rune control effortlessly from the beginning of the game, makes perfect teamfight initiation possible, and allows your carry's lane to become ungankable if you dedicate it to that purpose. Glacius is a hero that defines a player's skill at playing support heroes. You have to really understand the general support, babysitting, support ganker mindset well if you want to control games and dominate with him. I find that pubs have a really tough time laning against him as long as you put him in an "aggressive babysit" lane... something like a swiftblade or pestilence is magical. It's really a very very strong lane. Abuse your range to harrass instead of trying to last hit with his crappy animation, and immediately go on the weaker hero once your lane hits the necessary level (usually something like lvl 3). I emphasize the timing because the effectiveness of your nukes depreciates really fast, especially because you'll be levelling your aura rather than your nukes. You can hit the critical hero level faster with good pulling technique. My usual skill build is 1 in each nuke and then max aura. Once you get past the laning stage your main impact on the game is going to be mana aura, warding, participating in as many ganks as possible, and positioning in teamfights to 1) not get caught and instagibbed 2) well-positioned ult once all the main disables are thrown. Items that really help you out are astrolabe and void talisman, portal key/shrunken are nice and can be game breaking if you're fed for some reason (lvl advantage makes your ult insanely painful), but imo pipe dream luxury items in most games. I don't like bracers, but if you can't help getting caught by pebbles/deadwood/etc. I guess you have no choice (though in such cases i find that it's 9 out of 10 times your poor warding/counterwarding that's at fault). flint i don't like in pubs because he's a bit reliant on teamwork and picks. He needs a bit of help in most cases to create space both in the sense of gank-safe freefarm and in the sense of teamfights to not get mobbed. My cookie cutter skill build is 1 in each passive, max nuke/slow, ult whenever possible. It varies a lot though... you basically go 1 point in headshot first to help your last hitting, as many points in range as necessary to outrange your lane opponent(s) to give you the harrass advantage (usually 1), max slow because it's great for pushing/counterpushing. In pubs you really want at least a little mana regen, because you'll be participating in lots of fights to try and maintain control of the game rather than afk freefarming... I like ring of teacher (subtle pushing power bonus too!)/power supply, but bottle can work if you're mid and enemy team has no idea how to rune control and there's no threat of roaming. My item build goes something like rush geometers -> wingbow -> whispering helm, shrunken head is inserted (usually after yasha) whenever you run into teamfights where you're having trouble keeping people off your back with just positioning (pharoah or something on the enemy team). I occasionally spring for SnY -> split up into frostwulf + geo, when I feel my team is lacking in disables, but it's not as efficient DPS-wise and doesn't stack with the all-important late game lifesteal. I don't play demented shaman much personally (usually only when i'm trying to go for the supergay pesti/ds or panda/ds lane combo), but tablet of command is good on him in a similar way it's good on accursed. It just makes saving people's lives (inclulding your own) really really easy for you, and really really annoying for the other team. I'm pondering trying to play him in more of an INT semi-carry style though, with sheepstick rush (he can flash farm like a mofo) but I know i'll get raged at hard by pubs. My build with wretched hag is pretty concrete. After steamboots/powersupply/bottle and point booster, I branch into a couple of builds: 1) carry (team is lacking solid dps): either hellflower or sheepstick core (if i feel i'm doin really well, i'll skip point booster straight rush for blessed orb -> sheepstick), then build dps items (shield breaker or frostwulf, savage mace, etc.). Rape the hell out of supports with your initial blink combo (ideally right on the heels of a dedicated initiator; putting lots of distance between yourself and dangerous heroes with your positioning), then focus down enemy carry together with your team. I like to think that the hellflower/sheepstick renders a shrunken head redundant, but it's also an option. 2) gank/early push game (trying to end the game quickly with a pushing team): puzzlebox core (sometimes i get this anyways as invis counter), add sheepstick later. 3) pure AoE nuker: staff of the master, restoration stone core.. later frostfield (this is theorycraft because i've never actually done it  , but I think something like a tempest pick would make this viable)I only get nullstone on hag when there's a bad news ult on the other team like tundra or succubus that will shut down my teamfighting. Shrunken head is NOT optional on puppet master imo, unless you've terribly outpicked them or something. You're always going to be a priority target for initial nuke/disable wave because of your disabling power. Other than that, I've found all sorts of builds work. I really like lifesteal and attack speed (usually in the form of hellflower), puzzlebox is really good against invis, shieldbreaker synergizes with your ult, etc. etc. I haven't really figured out any ideal builds, just try to adapt to the other team. | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
Or better, in HoN everyone is powerless unless they are farmed or fed for some reason. Everything dies in 4 hits, creeps own tanks ezpz and OH FUCK THE RANGE OF RANGED STUFF OH GOD AUTOATTACK FROM TWICE ACROSS THE MAP... If someone could show me around I would really appreciate it, right now spells and movement animations are too unresponsive, automated pathing is has got me killed more than once and the item system is horrible with components being bought twice, the stash system being the most retarded thing ever and whatnot. In case anyone was looking for a solid ground to help me im liking accursed. I've always been a tanky support player and other than having no mana for most of the game even if I start with the purple ring he's quite fun. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On December 26 2010 20:23 r33k wrote: HoN is so hard compared to LoL -.- Or better, in HoN everyone is powerless unless they are farmed or fed for some reason. Everything dies in 4 hits, creeps own tanks ezpz and OH FUCK THE RANGE OF RANGED STUFF OH GOD AUTOATTACK FROM TWICE ACROSS THE MAP... If someone could show me around I would really appreciate it, right now spells and movement animations are too unresponsive, automated pathing is has got me killed more than once and the item system is horrible with components being bought twice, the stash system being the most retarded thing ever and whatnot. In case anyone was looking for a solid ground to help me im liking accursed. I've always been a tanky support player and other than having no mana for most of the game even if I start with the purple ring he's quite fun. serious question: ...if you don't like HoN that much, why are you bothering to learn it? (as it's like going "GAAAAAH THIS IS SO HARD... ALL THE HEROES ARE USELESS AND ITS SO HARD AND ITS SO HARD AND ITS SO ANNOYING (with tones of "LoL is better!")" and then asking "so how do I play this game?") also lol exaggerated content. And about accursed -> more information. what are you skilling atm + what items are you building. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
honwiki.net is a good site regarding specific numbers. (range, damage, cd, etc) Pathing in HoN was always complained about, but they claim to have been improving it, and I think they have. Get used to the shop system + courier. I agree lol is more newbie friendly but it's easy to learn. Oh and they fact that you have stash + courier does make a difference, as to knowing what's at the sideshop and secret shop. Get used to hotkeys too, since it does make a difference since you do lose gold when you die. Learn to juke through trees, there are TONS of juke paths, and many more can be created by cutting down trees with runes of blight and axe. It'll just take time; just learn all the skills and whatnot and you'll fit in easily. You can learn from /j clan teamliquid or /j clan ludus novicius. Most people in there should be of some help. | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2394 Posts
Glacius is a hero that defines a player's skill at playing support heroes. You have to really understand the general support, babysitting, support ganker mindset well if you want to control games and dominate with him. Glacius is so easy to play, don't even have to worry about last hitting and your team just wins off your aura. I would call him the support hero of choice for nubs like me. Andromeda though, what the fuck. Small range, a skill like swap that is surprisingly complex, hard to co-ordinate and your team depends on, and then an aura that is only good late game when carries will instagib you. Jesus =/ | ||
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r33k
Italy3402 Posts
On December 26 2010 20:40 zhurai wrote: serious question: ...if you don't like HoN that much, why are you bothering to learn it? (as it's like going "GAAAAAH THIS IS SO HARD... ALL THE HEROES ARE USELESS AND ITS SO HARD AND ITS SO HARD AND ITS SO ANNOYING (with tones of "LoL is better!")" and then asking "so how do I play this game?") also lol exaggerated content. And about accursed -> more information. what are you skilling atm + what items are you building. I think I almost calmed down from this morning, but really it's annoying to go from the playerless tutorial that's basically a youtube video where you have to right click twice in a full 15 minutes to an actual game where people do nothing but yell at each other. I was going to learn it by watching replays but replays are down for the moment so I'm being tossed in the tarpit. On accursed I'm following a guide I found, shield first maxing his nuke/heal then his shield then stats. As for items I think I was going purple ring+treecut thing into phase boots into basically support items, one of them looked like a papyrus leaf and gave caster stats and attack speed. Basically tankiness and mana regen, since stuff already dies so easily and you never have the mana to do your combo twice unless you go back to the fountain. At least I wasn't getting 3shot by minions since I had the awesome shield, I am slightly annoyed by the fact that public practice games seem to be a no-no where at best you'll be queued with 9 smurfing trolls. I didn't know about team liquid being an actual clan there (nor about chat commands but w/e), I'll check that out. | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
On December 26 2010 21:39 r33k wrote: I think I almost calmed down from this morning, but really it's annoying to go from the playerless tutorial that's basically a youtube video where you have to right click twice in a full 15 minutes to an actual game where people do nothing but yell at each other. I was going to learn it by watching replays but replays are down for the moment so I'm being tossed in the tarpit. On accursed I'm following a guide I found, shield first maxing his nuke/heal then his shield then stats. As for items I think I was going purple ring+treecut thing into phase boots into basically support items, one of them looked like a papyrus leaf and gave caster stats and attack speed. Basically tankiness and mana regen, since stuff already dies so easily and you never have the mana to do your combo twice unless you go back to the fountain. At least I wasn't getting 3shot by minions since I had the awesome shield, I am slightly annoyed by the fact that public practice games seem to be a no-no where at best you'll be queued with 9 smurfing trolls. I didn't know about team liquid being an actual clan there (nor about chat commands but w/e), I'll check that out. Andro has a 1.75 second stun at level 1, -armor skill which increases damage and has utility, a powerful aura, and a life-saving swap. Shield removes stuns (I think this got nerfed a bit) so you get that first while your heal scales better so you max that first. Someone link that guide d8ms wrote. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17282 Posts
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Wala.Revolution
7582 Posts
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