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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
Your team needs more practice still D: People once again looked lost when shit started going downhill which shouldn't happen...They were looking for something to do but you need plans for that stuff, not that. So when did you guys feel like the game was out of your control? If you can't answer that, then you won't fix the problem  | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
There's a lot of 'handicaps' we have to overcome right now. 1st game. The necro pick was pretty retarded but we were talking about some irrelevant shit and the clock was ticking and oh em gee they banned our beloved windrunner. cm and es were both being useless both games pretty much and arguing over vent. Our team overrates cm/es. I can see that they're fitting for our passive style but they really have glaring weaknesses and it's crucial to secure 'rich support' heroes like WR/pugna that can clear waves and be the leading force midgame with farm being optional/part of their job. From a nontechnical pov, I feel like our team can't get shit done. What I mean is, we mean to do something but do a half-ass job of it or fail miserably. Good teams take a much bolder approach and if it fails they learn and move on. If we fail it's like... 'well that's that...' game 1, things really started getting out of hand when we figured we can't match them in a straight up fight but we can't do shit about their superior positioning capabilities. So... pretty much when they let FV do his own shit and the rest kept pushing and daring us to stop them. game 2, they just moved around like they owned the map and our attempt at getting back into the game was counterproductive to say the least. That lineup we used only works well when we have at least even map control. Our team is too short-sighted (how the laning phase plays out, weighing the risk and reward of potentially game breaking decisions etc.) and relies too much spontaneity. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
I don't like the CM for one reason, unless your name is NS and you have the rest of DTS having your back, it's too easy with picks these days to pick up the CM kill without too much effort in team fights. I hold Lion/VS as the gold standard of support this version and are much easier to run. I wouldn't run either CM/ES unless your teamwork is up to a certain point. Running a Tide is much safer/easier imo and you have to be extra stupid to fail with Lion over a CM. As for game sense, the best advice I can offer after playing with players like Maelk is that you have to think ahead and explicitly tell your team what to do in the most obvious situation for team fights. Like literally Maelk turns lowskilled players into a pretty competent team, I can't even get them to carry a TP. Anyways start getting your team to think in terms of timings throughout the game, what needs to be done at every part of the game with their respective heroes. Playing when shit doesn't go your way is something people always struggle with. The scrubs will keep feeding and the skilled will manage the game. Can't always rely on team fights to even out the score. Edit: First game was (fairly) in control until your supports started doing dumb stuff, watch the replay with only your team's vision, expected outcomes versus risks taken were really bad. | ||
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Durak
Canada3685 Posts
I wouldn't want to start off by leading a team since I'm lacking a lot of knowledge. I would probably learn faster with a teacher. So, I assume I should try to join a team that scrims. Should I look on the HoN forums? How can I gauge the skill/knowledgability of a potential team? Any suggestions would be appreciated. Edit: I guess that even by reading Heen's and Judicator's discussion, I can see that good teams have issues. I suppose the knowledge that I'm looking for can't be learned as "absolute truths" but comes down to team style. | ||
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Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/13105-heen-the-korean-mastermind-interviewed :3 | ||
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Wala.Revolution
7584 Posts
Don't know how bad a place it is though. | ||
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Durak
Canada3685 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:06 Wala.Revolution wrote: There's a competitive forums on honforums. Go to looking for clans. Don't know how bad a place it is though. Yeah, I'm just assuming everyone is terrible unless I hear some advice. I think my current plan is just to find some random team to scrim with, see how that goes, then try and find a better team and so on. | ||
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Invictus
Singapore2697 Posts
On September 23 2010 01:57 Goshawk. wrote: Interview with Heen: http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/13105-heen-the-korean-mastermind-interviewed :3 but since he complains to me for not being able to be "pro", I now give him heroes who can masturbate, such as phantom lancer and sniper. This made my day. | ||
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Heen
Korea (South)2178 Posts
On September 23 2010 01:57 Goshawk. wrote: Interview with Heen: http://www.gosugamers.net/general/news/13105-heen-the-korean-mastermind-interviewed :3 ..... translations are fun. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On September 23 2010 02:19 Durak wrote: Yeah, I'm just assuming everyone is terrible unless I hear some advice. I think my current plan is just to find some random team to scrim with, see how that goes, then try and find a better team and so on. ...and you think that will make you a good competitive player why? Testie's posts about his HoN team (the one about wards and raging) should give you an idea how a good team should be interacting in-game. Find PUGs or IHLs and find people you can play with there, individual skill has to be like the easiest thing to overcome, team skills on the other hand...let's just say you'll be playing against yourself, your team and the opposing team in every game. I don't know if competitive HoN has an established ringer community but you could go that route to find yourself a good team. And Heen, How.ToPL.Kr | ||
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Durak
Canada3685 Posts
On September 23 2010 03:18 Judicator wrote: ...and you think that will make you a good competitive player why? By my "assuming everyone is terrible", I'm talking about pubs and general pub teams. I've played and beaten them without a microphone (i.e. barely giving my team instructions). So, I'm assuming that the general "join a HoN team" forum is full of bad people. Oh, and I'm not very good and ranked like #3000 in HoN by PSR, so I know the majority of people are terrible. If you were referring to my second sentence, I think experience will make me a better competitive player than I am now. I'm trying to find a first step here.  On September 23 2010 03:18 Judicator wrote: Testie's posts about his HoN team (the one about wards and raging) should give you an idea how a good team should be interacting in-game. I'll look for them. I think I've read a few of his good posts in this thread. On September 23 2010 03:18 Judicator wrote: Find PUGs or IHLs and find people you can play with there, individual skill has to be like the easiest thing to overcome, team skills on the other hand...let's just say you'll be playing against yourself, your team and the opposing team in every game. Yeah, HoN is a team game; team skills are definitely way more important than slight differences in farming. The problem is that in pub games you usually don't get to do any of that. Hell, you could just outfarm them and win by pure skill. I'm ranked #3000 or something by PSR and yet I'm inexperienced and not very knowledgable. Edit: Fixed up quotes Edit2: Apparently the "All" posts button is gone. It's going to take a lot longer searching for stuff now.  | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
On September 23 2010 00:00 Heen wrote: Well... the game was out of control from the beginning really. Not once were we in a good position, or more accurately in control of the game. There's a lot of 'handicaps' we have to overcome right now. 1st game. The necro pick was pretty retarded but we were talking about some irrelevant shit and the clock was ticking and oh em gee they banned our beloved windrunner. cm and es were both being useless both games pretty much and arguing over vent. Our team overrates cm/es. I can see that they're fitting for our passive style but they really have glaring weaknesses and it's crucial to secure 'rich support' heroes like WR/pugna that can clear waves and be the leading force midgame with farm being optional/part of their job. From a nontechnical pov, I feel like our team can't get shit done. What I mean is, we mean to do something but do a half-ass job of it or fail miserably. Good teams take a much bolder approach and if it fails they learn and move on. If we fail it's like... 'well that's that...' game 1, things really started getting out of hand when we figured we can't match them in a straight up fight but we can't do shit about their superior positioning capabilities. So... pretty much when they let FV do his own shit and the rest kept pushing and daring us to stop them. game 2, they just moved around like they owned the map and our attempt at getting back into the game was counterproductive to say the least. That lineup we used only works well when we have at least even map control. Our team is too short-sighted (how the laning phase plays out, weighing the risk and reward of potentially game breaking decisions etc.) and relies too much spontaneity. Oh god nightmare flashbacks. This sounds exactly like me to my team back in the day lololol. On a half-serious note, you think I could obs or stand-in for a practice game with you sometime? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
3 mins in... First Blood, our Lesh dies. 15 seconds later, our NA dies. 6 mins in... Ack: my syllabear is losing to tiny 8 mins in... Me: My Sand King with Atropos dies to a VS-AM lane after they fucking outfarmed us. 15 mins in... 15 deaths... How we made playoffs that season is beyond me. Got fucking raped up the ass every time. The only thing we can claim fame to is that we ran Levi and Mag before it was the cool thing to do. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On September 23 2010 13:32 OmgIRok wrote: Heen is so good, damn. Good luck in the future! Tell your teammates to straighten up or something and take it seriously why cant you take anal surprises seriously then... jeez the only dota i've been playing (if any) is omg dota, pubs are so bad on bnet :< | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
On September 23 2010 15:37 rabidch wrote: why cant you take anal surprises seriously then... jeez the only dota i've been playing (if any) is omg dota, pubs are so bad on bnet :< http://www.pidgin.im/ | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
i dont even talk to anybody on aim why do i need it oh wait ryugie oh wait. | ||
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