I think this false advertisement and shameless insult to the players deserves it's own thread.
In 2019, Overwatch 2 was announced. An all new game that promised to finally explore the story and heroes of Overwatch, not only in small timmed events and 1 mission at a time, but in a full fledged campaing with co-op, cinematics, talent trees, hero progression and customizability. Finally after years of playing overwatch and being promised a story, they would be releasing a story campaing.
After a couple of years with development, Blizzard announced the PvP version would come out before the PvE. Many thought this was to help the strugglin Overwatch League.
This release was called "early access" and in a roadmap they promised the story mode would come out in 2023.
Well, they just announced that PvE story mode has been scrapped. And that they have known about it since a year and a half ago. And they never told anyone.
The interesting thing about it is, it's such a difference releasing content for players that are playing your game instead of saving up all of that content for one big release that you're going to do later. So we came to the realization that this wasn't the right way to be developing for all of Overwatch. It was about a year and a half ago that we made the decision to really shift strategy.
So, remember that gameplay trailer released 3 years ago? None of the things related to the campaign will be coming to the game.
Interview with gamespot, which I suggest to read because the itnerviewer doesn't hold punches and ask good questions. For example after the Lead Game developer says that "we didn't have the time/money peopel to develop two games, one PvP and one PvE" the reporter is having none of it and ask
Presumably, the resources, time, and other necessities that you would have needed to make PvE were factored in when you originally came up with the plan to create this game. What has changed since then that now you're in a position where you can't do it? We're in a situation now where the game is what it always has been--it's evolved in some ways--but a sequel was released and that sequel's justification hinged on the PvE. Why did that happen?"
Just to be clear, what they will do now is not release a PvE campaing, and instead some of the missions they had, will be released seasonally (like the blackwatch events for those who played Ow1). So basically, the exact same thing with Ow1....
They also made promises new cinematics will be released, and the story missions will be more frequent than in OW2. Still, that remains to be seen. They can say whatever they want and change it later as we're seeing. So even though they are saying they will have some story events etc, my expectations are beloew 0 and just don't trust them anymore.
__________ My opinion: I can't believe it. I just can't. The whole point of Overwatch 2 was the campaing. And along the way they updated the multiplayer and they would be released together. And now they are doing this?
The conspiracy theory people ahve is that they just did this so they could change the business model from lootboxes to battlepass. I don't think that was always the plan, but that's the result. OW2 is OW1, but worse since you only have 1 tank, and with a battlepass. This is outrageous.
And this is why Blizzard has not been able to get another MMO off the ground. There is no reason to even play Overwatch 2 as it was no different than the first one. The only reason people were still laying the game was this very feature that was to be released, now that is not. Expect history to repeat itself. With WoW number falling lower, and lower passing month one has to wonder how much cash Blizz is hemorrhaging. Not counting the countless staff that are continuously leaving.
On May 17 2023 11:12 Southlight wrote: Gamers are too stupid and companies know it.
There really is no other way to put it at this point, is there?
Often web services and the like will go through a cycle of getting shittier, finding new ways to charge for features that were previously given for free, etc. And then a new competitor will come along that's doing all the good stuff for you again to grab a userbase (and gradually become shit itself).
In gaming, however, the Overton window just keeps on shifting further and further anti-consumer and Gamers keep on paying top dollar for the slop.
Hopefully this will be the storm that actually topples the teacup, and teaches gamers that they should actually buy games instead of pre-ordering promises. There's little reason to expect it might be, though.
On May 17 2023 11:12 Southlight wrote: You say this but the Diablo 4 thread is going strong and I'm sure it'll break sales records. Gamers are too stupid and companies know it.
I guarantee you that the large majority (like 99,9%) of people who purchase D4 will enjoy it and have a good time. All the complainers in the reddit echo chamber or in threads like this one are a tiny insignificant blip when it comes to the sales. So it's no great mystery why people continue pre-ordering/playing games from studios like Blizzard, they enjoy them! If you want to call them stupid for enjoying a game then go ahead, but it's a bit silly.
On May 17 2023 18:02 Harris1st wrote: I'm really glad now that I never jumped aboard the OW hype train.
I am certain a OW2 with story missions, campaigns and stuff would have pulled me in and it would have pulled in countless others. Their loss
And in my case, it pays to be a skeptic. It always sounded like Overwatch: Vermintide, but it was taking waaaay too much time for it to be released. The first big red light was Jeff Kaplan leaving, and the second one was deciding to "release" OW2... which players just called "Overwatch 1.1, but with battlepass"
Thankfully I erred on the side of caution and didn't buy into the hype & only promises from Blizz yet again. FeelsVindicatedMan
Wait... they knew a year and a half ago and only decided now to make it public? This is inexcusable. I get the feeling they never even began work on the PvE part of the game, at all. Keep in mind this was Blizzards last "good/unblemished" IP. StarCraft died after that dumb fucking ending, Warcraft is a smoking crater. Diablo blew it's brains out upon release of D3. At the very least Diablo has been slowing trying to rebuild, we'll see. As for Overwatch. It's over. This makes Blizz scorecard for an FPS MMO type game 0-3. Ghost, Titan, and now this.
Yeah it seems to me that they knew they wouldn’t be releasing pve by the time the ow2 was launched but they couldn’t come out and say “here’s pvp and the pve is cancelled “ cause that would have been a big shitshow and many wouldn’t have touched ow2. So they said “it’s totally coming later this is early release” and now after a year the come out and say it… which is still a big shitshow but they got a year of profits and good faith from players.
It’s even more baffling since they stopped updating ow1 for like 3 years with only minimal updates as they were focusing on releasing ow2 under the promise of a big story mode and big pvp updates. And then they released ow2 with 2 new heroes and like 3 new maps when ow1 was released with 20 heroes and 10 maps. What was the point? Why wouldn’t they just put that stuff into OW1 instead? What were they doing?
I’m not buying Diablo 4 anymore. At least not during release. I’m reminded of the last time i felt duped by a company like this… With Diablo 3 pvp. I was so disappointed….
So no way am I buying Diablo 4 at launch. I’ll wait for reviews, wait for the seasons, and if it’s any good I’ll wait until it’s on sale. I’m tired of false promises.
People like Digital Extremes, Gearbox, and Bungie make PvE shooter experiences that are very hard to match. Blizzard knew they couldn't meet those standards so they smartly threw in the towel.
On May 17 2023 10:09 [Phantom] wrote: ... and just don't trust them anymore. ...
why trust them in the first place? The F2P model blossomed partly due to all consumers having zero trust for anything the video game industry produces. So the industry had to start handing out stuff for $0.
On May 17 2023 10:09 [Phantom] wrote: My opinion: I can't believe it. I just can't. ... This is outrageous.
I do not think it is outrageous. It is business as usual. In fact, this is pretty softball stuff.
Stuff like this has been happening since Mattel lied about the "Keyboard Component" in 1979 and got threatened by the Federal Trade Commission. This stuff has been happening since the dawn of the industry. Mattel fished in a bunch of parents to buying their "computer and gaming system" for the inflation adjusted equivalent of $1,400. (and you thought the PS5 was expensive? HA!). The computer portion never came out. The children were happy ... they got the state of the art video game. The parents... HA! They got fucked.
OW2 is F2P. The Mattel Intellivision was $1,400. What Blizzard is doing is small potatoes. What Mattel did ... that was grand larceny.
These stupid fucking product "roadmaps" are comedy gold. "The RoadMap To Hell is Paved With Good Intentions"
Wikipedia, on the Intellivision Keyboard: In mid-1982, the FTC ordered Mattel to pay a monthly fine (said to be $10,000) until the promised computer upgrade was in full retail distribution.[33] To end the ongoing fines, the Keyboard Component was officially canceled in August 1982 and the Entertainment Computer System (ECS) module offered in its place. Part of Mattel's settlement with the FTC involved offering to buy back all of the existing Keyboard Components from customers. Mattel provided a full refund, but customers without a receipt received $550 for the Keyboard Component, $60 for the BASIC cartridge, and $30 for each cassette software.[38] Any customer who opted to keep the products was required to sign a waiver with the understanding that no more software would be written for the system and absolving Mattel of any future responsibility for technical support.[39] They were also compensated with $1,000 worth of Mattel Electronics products.[38]
Wow. As I said, the Overton window has shifted.
On May 18 2023 13:27 JimmyJRaynor wrote: why trust them in the first place? The F2P model blossomed partly due to all consumers having zero trust for anything the video game industry produces. So the industry had to start handing out stuff for $0.
Gotta press X to doubt on this one. The industry, even post-F2P, is still living heavily off of full-price pre-orders. If only gamers would actually start distrusting in any meaningful capacity, lol
Companies brought along F2P when they saw how much money Facebook games could make.
even if one were to concede that they "smartly threw in the towel" they proceeded to do nothing to suggest the fight was over until after people had bought tickets for it. Business smart, sure, as long as they get away with it.
The only saving grace Blizzard has on their side is that they didn't charge preorders of the supposed PvE portion of the game, had they gone ahead and charged for said portion of the game and then did this. They would be in very deep shit. Kaplan left Blizz Overwatch in 2021.... they knew for a year and a half that PvE would not be released. There has to be a connection.
Another man's perspective on what happened internally at Blizzard... basically it comes down to good ol' Bobby's greed. He claims to have some inside sources, but obviously won't name them for fear of legal retaliation.
Wikipedia, on the Intellivision Keyboard: In mid-1982, the FTC ordered Mattel to pay a monthly fine (said to be $10,000) until the promised computer upgrade was in full retail distribution.[33] To end the ongoing fines, the Keyboard Component was officially canceled in August 1982 and the Entertainment Computer System (ECS) module offered in its place. Part of Mattel's settlement with the FTC involved offering to buy back all of the existing Keyboard Components from customers. Mattel provided a full refund, but customers without a receipt received $550 for the Keyboard Component, $60 for the BASIC cartridge, and $30 for each cassette software.[38] Any customer who opted to keep the products was required to sign a waiver with the understanding that no more software would be written for the system and absolving Mattel of any future responsibility for technical support.[39] They were also compensated with $1,000 worth of Mattel Electronics products.[38]
Wow. As I said, the Overton window has shifted.
the keyboard component never made it to full retail production. hardly any keyboard components were made. the overwhelming vast majority of the millions of customers did not have the oppportunity to buy a keyboard and turn their video game into a computer.. The overall point is.. millions got fucked out of $1400 being promised a hardware that transforms the product they bought while Overwatch is a F2P game with a new feature not being made as promised.
This kind of BS has been going on for decades. Atari tried to crush Activision in 1979. They could not care less that Activision was making awesome games for their console owners. A few years later was the Nintendo v. Tengen shenanigans eventually settled to a resolution in 1992. Hard core anti-consumer behaviour is run of the mill standard practice throughout the industry.
As a result of this decades long track record I have a surprise level of zero when a shift in how OW2 PvE will be distributed occurs.
On May 22 2023 09:09 JimmyJRaynor wrote: As a result of this decades long track record I have a surprise level of zero when a shift in how OW2 PvE will be distributed occurs.
I, too, have a surprise level of zero when Activision-Blizzard tanks customer goodwill and produces nothing that makes me want to play it
On May 18 2023 00:15 [Phantom] wrote: Yeah it seems to me that they knew they wouldn’t be releasing pve by the time the ow2 was launched but they couldn’t come out and say “here’s pvp and the pve is cancelled “ cause that would have been a big shitshow and many wouldn’t have touched ow2. So they said “it’s totally coming later this is early release” and now after a year the come out and say it… which is still a big shitshow but they got a year of profits and good faith from players.
It’s even more baffling since they stopped updating ow1 for like 3 years with only minimal updates as they were focusing on releasing ow2 under the promise of a big story mode and big pvp updates. And then they released ow2 with 2 new heroes and like 3 new maps when ow1 was released with 20 heroes and 10 maps. What was the point? Why wouldn’t they just put that stuff into OW1 instead? What were they doing?
I’m not buying Diablo 4 anymore. At least not during release. I’m reminded of the last time i felt duped by a company like this… With Diablo 3 pvp. I was so disappointed….
So no way am I buying Diablo 4 at launch. I’ll wait for reviews, wait for the seasons, and if it’s any good I’ll wait until it’s on sale. I’m tired of false promises.
why not buy diablo 4 for the... wait for it... campaign?
That's vaguely like telling people they should only be basing their enjoyment of StarCraft off of the campaign. I know with Diablo the focus is generally reversed and single player is the bedrock of the game, but the point stands that different folks have different reasons why they enjoy a game.
What do you mean "reversed"? By Blizzard's own words 80% of SC2 players played campaign first and foremost, then coop when it was released. Only 20% played MP at all, and I'd guess only fraction of them played it a lot.
I.e. SC2 is the game where 80% of sales came from SP players.
I personally know 7-8 people who played and loved SC2 campaign(s). None of them ever touched MP or ever thought about it. MP-players are a very vocal minority.
Look, I'm not here to litigate the exact number of people who primarily play this or that in SC2. This forum is dedicated to StarCraft as an esport, StarCraft's primary reputation is as an esport. The vast majority of Blizzard's post-launch work for SC2 was geared toward multiplayer. If you walk into a group of people who play Blizzard games and mention StarCraft, they're going to think of the multiplayer and how competitive the game is and how it's the first esport. Mention Diablo and people think of a fantastic single-player looting ARPG experience. Maybe you play it in groups but it's still the same thing you were playing by yourself, it still exists off the scaffolding of the single-player.
I'm not spending any extra time on that. That aside, you make my point that StarCraft succeeded the way it did because all kinds of people each found different things they enjoyed about it. Insofar as Diablo has different modes to enjoy, different players will end up gravitating to different things. It's totally legit to be focused on PvP if that's your bliss.
All that now said, fuck Blizzard. That's obligatory. I'm already sworn off them, but I loved Overwatch, and was initially excited like so many others for what OW2 was going to bring. It justified the "2" by promising so far undelivered content as far as story and missions and single-player, by fleshing out the threadbare lore and giving people something to chew on. What makes it Overwatch 2 now? Battlepasses?
I can't say I'm surprised that this is how it turned out, given the backlash they earned and that actions have consequences, but it really drives home that Blizzard's misconduct as a company is serious business when they have to backtrack on the fundamental promise of one of their biggest and only new games in development. They've been riding from one BlizzCon to the next off the back of OW2 and D4 being their 2 huge rallying flags, and they just set fire to one of them.
On May 23 2023 04:25 NewSunshine wrote: If you walk into a group of people who play Blizzard games and mention StarCraft, they're going to think of the multiplayer and how competitive the game is and how it's the first esport.
I'm a member of many SC-related discords and forums with a lot of people. And there's like 3-5% of people who mention MP at all, and maybe 0.5% who mention e-sports. They all talk about campaigns, coop, custom content / arcade, etc.
If you go to MP-centric forum like TL, of course you'll think that most people know about the game as MP / e-sport. Go to any non-MP-centric place and you might never hear about it.
But yeah, there's no sense in arguing about it, so let's not.
Since we are doing personal experience, I can second what ZeroByte mentioned. Most people who played Starcraft longer (than the campaign) are playing Arcade and Coop. It's less stressful and used to wind down after a long day at work, while laddering is anxiety at it's finest
The main thing here is that Blizzard spent so much effort and money on campaigns exactly because they knew how important it is for majority of players.
It wasn't an afterthought, i.e. SC2 isn't a primarily MP game with attached SP. For (officially) 80% of players it's a SP / coop / arcade game with attached MP. I'd guess before 2016 Blizzard did spend more time/effort on campaigns/cinematics than on MP part of the game.
So it's not different from Diablo in that regard, in my opinion.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://assets-prd.ignimgs.com/2022/06/15/overwatch-2-2022-roadmap-1655304570735.png)
