On June 24 2009 07:12 zizou21 wrote: hey total noob question; i was dicking around w/ balrog and was wondering how you can link an ultra after a charge attack (headbutt,dash,w/e). is there even enuf time to start charging for an ultra? i tried and failed
As a non-Balrog player I only know how to do it with headbutt (the way I see all the time). I don't think you can combo into ultra except after focus attack or headbutt (and maybe counterhit dash swing blow?).
With headbutt:
charge down-back (55+ frames) -- this charges both headbutt and ultra
up-back + p -- this performs the headbutt; do this without ever letting go of back
forward, back, forward+ppp -- this performs the ultra
Essentially, all the SF games allow you to use any up motion (straight up, up-back, or up-forward) when executing a down up+punch/kick special. However, for back forward specials, you have to end on forward exactly. Actually, I don't even know which punch Balrog players use for the headbutt. I think you can use HP for the most damage, as I think they recover at about the same speed in this game. Also, I forget when you should be holding punches and kicks for the ultra, for the hits to connect.
Ah well, better wait for an actual rog player.
edit: summary in case I was confusing -- Execute the headbutt such that you don't let go of your back charge. Then you still have charge for ultra when you land.
On June 22 2009 02:14 L wrote: You will get used to the stick. I used keyboard for quite a long time, and the keyboard controller upper limit of 3 concurrent inputs is a MASSIVE liability. Raging demon and the qcf, uf movements, as well as 360s were fucking terrible because of having to move my middle finger up.
Keyboard IS fantastic for HCB/HCF movements, though. I agree there.
Depends on the keyboard. I have to press like 5 keys at the same time for my keyboard to fuck up. I have zero problems at all with QCF or the raging demon. I can't do a single tiger knee or 360 motion on the keyboard tho. Everything else I have 100 time more ease with the keyboard.
Guess my keyboard sucked dicks.
if you're talking about the tiger knee motion that's d df f uf (hooligan motion in SF4 iirc, I abbreviated it as QCF uf), then yeah, keyboards suck dick for that. I kinda solved it by binding e to w+d, and q to a + w. The df and db positions are kinda fucked on the keyboard, though, which means you can't play most charge characters properly.
Either way, transitioning to a stick will solve most of these problems. I do prefer keyboard for shotos or characters that don't have complex stick inputs, like X-Rolento from SFA3, or setsuna from last blade.
Myrmidon is exactly right. Only other times you can combo ultra are after an anti-air turn punch and a corner dashing armor break kick move w/e it's called.
assuming dash swing blow is the overhead, you just combo into c.lk or c.mp depending on the character into headbutt ultra. It's annoying though, some characters you can only connect with cr.hk off the overhead, which means no getting paid
Also, random thing with ken I've noticed: I can do hp shoryu fadc ultra and get the full (not just uppercut part) of his ultra to connect, and I got it a couple times off sheer luck a couple days ago in regular matches. But when I try it in training mode, the only way I get it to connect is after a crumble and letting them fall to the floor before doing the shoryu, which allows for enough time to do focus attack, dash, taunt, fp shoryu fadc full ultra for the goofiest ken combo I know of, but why doesn't it work outside of that wierd distance / timing? (
I get it 9/10 times if I do the focus - taunt thing, but off regular shoryu I land the full ultra 0/10 times. Even tried it with jab shoryus and off of a couple different hit strings for possible distances. So confused!
On June 22 2009 02:14 L wrote: You will get used to the stick. I used keyboard for quite a long time, and the keyboard controller upper limit of 3 concurrent inputs is a MASSIVE liability. Raging demon and the qcf, uf movements, as well as 360s were fucking terrible because of having to move my middle finger up.
Keyboard IS fantastic for HCB/HCF movements, though. I agree there.
Depends on the keyboard. I have to press like 5 keys at the same time for my keyboard to fuck up. I have zero problems at all with QCF or the raging demon. I can't do a single tiger knee or 360 motion on the keyboard tho. Everything else I have 100 time more ease with the keyboard.
Guess my keyboard sucked dicks.
if you're talking about the tiger knee motion that's d df f uf (hooligan motion in SF4 iirc, I abbreviated it as QCF uf), then yeah, keyboards suck dick for that. I kinda solved it by binding e to w+d, and q to a + w. The df and db positions are kinda fucked on the keyboard, though, which means you can't play most charge characters properly.
Either way, transitioning to a stick will solve most of these problems. I do prefer keyboard for shotos or characters that don't have complex stick inputs, like X-Rolento from SFA3, or setsuna from last blade.
haha interesting my keyboard experience: 2x QCF: I can do this really well and fast half-circle: If I should do it really fast, then it only works 80% 360/720: lol, once I did a red parry-->360 with Hugo on keyboard by chance, anyway I can't tiger-knee: I can do TK quarter circle moves with 95% rate (except Robo-Ky's fist rocket) horizontal charge: pretty OK vertical charge: annoying, also for some reason it can barely do it in SF games (3s and ST), but I can in Guilty Gear
Also, there was a point when I played so much GG with Baiken that I could do TK youzansen (srk move), but somehow that skill only lasted for 1 day (lol)
How many buttons can you use: This depends on some factors:
Low quality keyboards usually support less. Usually the wiring of the keyboard is made that specific button groups are wired together, and you can only do like 2 buttonpresses simulatniusly in that group, but if your keys are mapped more fortunately in the game, you can use even 4 if the other keys are in an other wiring group. There is a difference between PS/2 and USB keyboards.
To be honest I didn't read through your balrog-replies because they sounded wayyyy too complicated and I'm kinda drunk. All you gotta do is either crouching light punch, headbutt (backwards and up instead of just up motion) and BAM ultra. You can do dash punch, light punch, light punch and even one more light punch -> ultra, but I'd suggest dash punch, crouching light punch, crouching light kick, headbutt, ultra. The tricky thing is the pause between c.lp/c.lk/ultra. Force yourself to do a pause between the first two hits although you feel like you gotta do it the fastest you can and you can link the ultra. Balrog really is one of the easiest characters you gotta link the ultra with it, it just needs a bit of practice.
On June 24 2009 09:05 Trumpet wrote: Myrmidon is exactly right. Only other times you can combo ultra are after an anti-air turn punch and a corner dashing armor break kick move w/e it's called.
assuming dash swing blow is the overhead, you just combo into c.lk or c.mp depending on the character into headbutt ultra. It's annoying though, some characters you can only connect with cr.hk off the overhead, which means no getting paid
Also, random thing with ken I've noticed: I can do hp shoryu fadc ultra and get the full (not just uppercut part) of his ultra to connect, and I got it a couple times off sheer luck a couple days ago in regular matches. But when I try it in training mode, the only way I get it to connect is after a crumble and letting them fall to the floor before doing the shoryu, which allows for enough time to do focus attack, dash, taunt, fp shoryu fadc full ultra for the goofiest ken combo I know of, but why doesn't it work outside of that wierd distance / timing? (
I get it 9/10 times if I do the focus - taunt thing, but off regular shoryu I land the full ultra 0/10 times. Even tried it with jab shoryus and off of a couple different hit strings for possible distances. So confused!
u get full ultra animation on ken's shoryu fadc ONLY if
1. u get a counter hit (no combo, just straight HP shoryu) 2. u get them in the air. like the first 2 hits connect but they have to be in the air
any other way then is new to me an example of the 1st method is at 2:12 in this video + Show Spoiler +
On June 24 2009 07:25 L wrote: if you're talking about the tiger knee motion that's d df f uf (hooligan motion in SF4 iirc, I abbreviated it as QCF uf), then yeah, keyboards suck dick for that. I kinda solved it by binding e to w+d, and q to a + w. The df and db positions are kinda fucked on the keyboard, though, which means you can't play most charge characters properly.
hooligan motion in SF starts at DB and goes to UF, (like an HCF that's tilted)
On June 22 2009 02:14 L wrote: You will get used to the stick. I used keyboard for quite a long time, and the keyboard controller upper limit of 3 concurrent inputs is a MASSIVE liability. Raging demon and the qcf, uf movements, as well as 360s were fucking terrible because of having to move my middle finger up.
Keyboard IS fantastic for HCB/HCF movements, though. I agree there.
Depends on the keyboard. I have to press like 5 keys at the same time for my keyboard to fuck up. I have zero problems at all with QCF or the raging demon. I can't do a single tiger knee or 360 motion on the keyboard tho. Everything else I have 100 time more ease with the keyboard.
Guess my keyboard sucked dicks.
if you're talking about the tiger knee motion that's d df f uf (hooligan motion in SF4 iirc, I abbreviated it as QCF uf), then yeah, keyboards suck dick for that. I kinda solved it by binding e to w+d, and q to a + w. The df and db positions are kinda fucked on the keyboard, though, which means you can't play most charge characters properly.
Either way, transitioning to a stick will solve most of these problems. I do prefer keyboard for shotos or characters that don't have complex stick inputs, like X-Rolento from SFA3, or setsuna from last blade.
haha interesting my keyboard experience: 2x QCF: I can do this really well and fast half-circle: If I should do it really fast, then it only works 80% 360/720: lol, once I did a red parry-->360 with Hugo on keyboard by chance, anyway I can't tiger-knee: I can do TK quarter circle moves with 95% rate (except Robo-Ky's fist rocket) horizontal charge: pretty OK vertical charge: annoying, also for some reason it can barely do it in SF games (3s and ST), but I can in Guilty Gear
Also, there was a point when I played so much GG with Baiken that I could do TK youzansen (srk move), but somehow that skill only lasted for 1 day (lol)
How many buttons can you use: This depends on some factors:
Low quality keyboards usually support less. Usually the wiring of the keyboard is made that specific button groups are wired together, and you can only do like 2 buttonpresses simulatniusly in that group, but if your keys are mapped more fortunately in the game, you can use even 4 if the other keys are in an other wiring group. There is a difference between PS/2 and USB keyboards.
The key for doing HCB/F quickly on the keyboard is to MAKE GODDAM SURE you lift the finger you started with. If you're doing a piano over f d b, for instance, you need to slow down a bit to make sure you don't have all 3 fingers down at the same time. Once you get the muscle memory down for lifting your first finger, you can reliably do it 100% of the time at higher speeds.
I actually switched my movement inputs to numpad when I play GG on a keyboard, so 6239 isn't that killer, even on the shitkeyboard. I don't really recommend getting into that habit, though, because it switches the roles of your hands, which makes it really, REALLY unfun to unlearn when you switch to stick.
hooligan motion in SF starts at DB and goes to UF, (like an HCF that's tilted)
Lol, I don't play cammy, I just know it ends at uf. This would probably explain why i was too frustrated to bother learning cammy, though, thanks.
I play(ed) right hand on arrow keys for directions because that's the way DOS games, emulators, SC, etc. were set up. I mean, I used to use delete/home/end/pagedown for strafing with arrow keys for turning in Descent just fine, hitting both sets of directions simultaneously with right hand. My DP and qcfx2 motions are fast, and I can do everything consistently in a real match except standing 360 and ground TK in ST (jumping is 4 frames I think?, but I don't use those chars), which come out a little more than half the time. Some things like IAD really are easier. Other things harder though.
I wonder if it would have made sense to reverse the button order playing with buttons on the left side? i.e. hp-mp-lp rather than lp-mp-hp
How come when I link the ultra after a headbutt only the first punch hits the opponent (rest just whiff). Is this normal? maybe my bad timing?
Also one of the moves in the trial says to charge->forward->kick and then ultra? From what I understand you guys are saying the only charge you can link w/ the ultra is the headbutt? Sorry im a nub :
EDIT: specific trial i am on asks to Focus->Dash Upper->Ultra
On June 27 2009 07:11 zizou21 wrote: How come when I link the ultra after a headbutt only the first punch hits the opponent (rest just whiff). Is this normal? maybe my bad timing?
Also one of the moves in the trial says to charge->forward->kick and then ultra? From what I understand you guys are saying the only charge you can link w/ the ultra is the headbutt? Sorry im a nub
its because balrog's standard ultra is all straight punches (PPP). you have to hold down KKK in order for him to use uppercuts, which will juggle your opponent.
that's not the only thing to remember. if you don't the opponent trapped in a corner, you basically have to let one of the punches fail. So the most common variations is KKK, PPP, KKK, KKK
in other words, hold down PPP in the 2nd hit, let it go, and just hold down KKK for the remaining punches of the ultra. it sounds difficult from reading all this stuff, but it's actually pretty easy. lot easier than the charge trick to connect headbutt to ultra.
So I'm not completely doomed for failure when I get this for the PC then? I might buy a stick depending on how much I get into the game, but I've been played alot of 3S lately and that's really fun.
I don't know if which 3 buttons you activate Rog's ultra with matters (I use 3P) but you don't have to hold all the buttons, or even the Punches. What I do is whatever headbutt Ultra and hold any one K then let go and i get a straight then hold a K again (or 3K if I want to do that build meter thing)
On June 27 2009 07:11 zizou21 wrote: Also one of the moves in the trial says to charge->forward->kick and then ultra? From what I understand you guys are saying the only charge you can link w/ the ultra is the headbutt? Sorry im a nub :
EDIT: specific trial i am on asks to Focus->Dash Upper->Ultra
I think you're talking about this one? That should be super, right? Most attacks, including many special moves, can be canceled into super. Look at the chart here for reference: http://shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Balrog_(SFIV)
I don't even recognize which charge special that is that needs to be canceled into super for that trial. I'm going to guess it's dash upper, which I think is probably charge back, forward + kick? The way to cancel dash upper into super is this:
charge b, f+k, b, f+p
All the motions after the initial charge back should be done quickly. The game allows you to use the charge back motion for both the dash upper and the super. So you're doing a regular super motion after the focus attack, except you're hitting kick on the first forward as well. Same principle goes for other characters (e.g. with Ryu, do two hadoken motions fast and get a hadoken+super) and many other games.
Yes that's exactly the one i'm talking about; and sadly I am still having trouble with it. It's really connecting the FA with the Dash Upper. When I dash upper it's not even the same animation that I see in the video. Do you need to dash out of the Focus attack or something? that breaks my charge though.. But yes when I dash upper (CHARGE->KICK, right?) it doesnt even register the link on the side (although im pretty sure they link), and the animation is completely different than the one from the video. I am hopeless..
Be sure Dan is in the corner (makes it easier if nothing else). Be sure your FA is fully charged (don't let go of mp+mk until it releases by itself). Be sure you are doing charge b, f+k; not charge b, df+k. Charge b, df+k is another attack with a different animation. You can actually just sit there and wait until Balrog recovers from the FA, or you can backdash out of it. Either way works.
I am so embarrassed but that was it...I could have sworn I was EXTRA careful about not hitting downforward -_-; Thank you myrmidon you have been very helpful ^^ others as well
Balrog's dash upper and his smash needs to be fixed imo. I get the dash upper only 50% of the time because the degree of separation of forward and down-forward is too small. It's frustrating when I'm trying to combo with dash upper, and a smash comes out. It's also a pretty useless move. The separation difference is totally different from the punch variation, which I can hit every time.
EPT
