One of the biggest companies, Riot, tries to keep the guppies around by letting them pick which pool they swim in. To detach the metaphor, LoL allows you to make new accounts with a 15ish minute barrier to entry before you can play against people. You can smurf with a very low barrier to entry, with Riot even going so far as allowing you to make infinite accounts on the same email address.
Personally, I hope advancements in AI allow for 'fake guppies' a la Fortnite's bots, rather than Riot's method of victimizing its own playerbase to let some guppies feel like sharks.
the latest Stormgate video includes this wording at the start: "From Developers Who Contributed To: C&C , WC3, SC2"
So they're being 100% honest and transparent. The Community guy said the wording used in the KickStarter opening page was due to a character/word limit. Anyhow, good to see they are promoting their game in as good a light as possible... without bullshitting.
If people on reddit are going to complain about when an advert can be viewed as somewhat misleading .... then these redditors gotta give Frost Giant credit... when they get it 100% correct.
On December 07 2023 05:06 Hider wrote: Having watched plenty of streamer video play, I think I get some sense what Frostgiant is going for;
* Quality of live improvements to 1v1 + slow down the gameplay a bit + increased defenders advantage to make it more forgiving/less apm-demanding while still leaving room for basic micro. The intention is that this will allow former RTS/competitive minded players to get a competitive RTS experience without being as stressed as in Sc2.
* Create a strong coop experience for casuals.
Leaving aside coop because I know nothing about this; can their 1v1 theory become succesful? Regardless of them making the game somewhat easier to play mechanically and more forgiving, there is still a knowledge learning barrier. People do need to spend effort learning.
Usually the way you get people to commit to effort is because they can see a big reward at the end. "If I practice these things then I can maybe one day become X good which will be awesome".
Players can be motivated/hyped when served amazing gameplay/highlights. This is the case in all games, e.g. Fortnide, LOL, Dota, CS:GO, Overwatch etc. When I watch Clem play I get motivated and makes me want to play Starcraft 2 and git gut, even though I don't have time to do so.
The question is - and I think we will get a much better idea on this in the coming days/weeks - does Stormgate have that? Is there anything with Stormgate where you desperately want to master certain aspects of the game - because doing so will be very fulfilling?
I think the Coop and Campaign will ease a lot of players in to the more hardcore experience of laddering. I assume most casuals will stay with the 3v3 ladder though because of the fun with friends experience and if it's anything like SC2 3v3, it's a lot less stressful but still as rewarding as 1v1.
For me, what really motivates me to git gut is the fact that I want to demolish my friends in the most painful way possible and they want to do the same to me. That made me the better SC2 player than anyone I know personally and it will do the same in Stormgate as long as enough of my friends pick it up, too.
On December 07 2023 05:06 Hider wrote: Having watched plenty of streamer video play, I think I get some sense what Frostgiant is going for;
* Quality of live improvements to 1v1 + slow down the gameplay a bit + increased defenders advantage to make it more forgiving/less apm-demanding while still leaving room for basic micro. The intention is that this will allow former RTS/competitive minded players to get a competitive RTS experience without being as stressed as in Sc2.
* Create a strong coop experience for casuals.
Leaving aside coop because I know nothing about this; can their 1v1 theory become succesful? Regardless of them making the game somewhat easier to play mechanically and more forgiving, there is still a knowledge learning barrier. People do need to spend effort learning.
Usually the way you get people to commit to effort is because they can see a big reward at the end. "If I practice these things then I can maybe one day become X good which will be awesome".
Players can be motivated/hyped when served amazing gameplay/highlights. This is the case in all games, e.g. Fortnide, LOL, Dota, CS:GO, Overwatch etc. When I watch Clem play I get motivated and makes me want to play Starcraft 2 and git gut, even though I don't have time to do so.
The question is - and I think we will get a much better idea on this in the coming days/weeks - does Stormgate have that? Is there anything with Stormgate where you desperately want to master certain aspects of the game - because doing so will be very fulfilling?
For me, what really motivates me to git gut is the fact that I want to demolish my friends in the most painful way possible and they want to do the same to me. That made me the better SC2 player than anyone I know personally and it will do the same in Stormgate as long as enough of my friends pick it up, too.
You can do that in other games as well. What would make people want to invest extra resources to do that in Stormgate? Is the mechanics or strategy that much more interesting than in other games?
I'm a pretty religious Brood War viewer, and I know that it takes a while to understand the meta of a game. However, I can't can tell a thing of what's going on in Stormgate from watching gameplay videos today. All I see is two armies of different sized soldiers line up, and then stand around shooting each other for a while. Everything beyond that is just a mess. There's just nothing characteristic about any of the characters, sounds, or animations. It's just a flurry of particle effects everywhere. Add video encoding on top of that, and it's just one big blah on the screen.
What makes Brood War so great to watch is the spectacle of it all. There's a lot going on, and it's hard to keep track of it all. However, players don't have much of a hard time seeing it all because each unit is so distinct. They have very distinct shapes, attacks, and sounds. There's even distinct differences in just the way units move around. In Stormgate everything just glides around slowly. There's no tension, and it's hard as a viewer to stay engaged.
I'd say Frost Giant could really use a Samwise Didier right now.
I can see some improvements over the previous trailers, and I'm glad to see the cinematic looks good.
Still I don't see anthing super revolutionary or anything, and I fear the sc2 community will end up a little dissapointed as it does look more like other types of RTS not sc2.
Edit:
On December 08 2023 14:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Interesting complaint getting traction on reddit.
I'm a pretty religious Brood War viewer, and I know that it takes a while to understand the meta of a game. However, I can't can tell a thing of what's going on in Stormgate from watching gameplay videos today. All I see is two armies of different sized soldiers line up, and then stand around shooting each other for a while. Everything beyond that is just a mess. There's just nothing characteristic about any of the characters, sounds, or animations. It's just a flurry of particle effects everywhere. Add video encoding on top of that, and it's just one big blah on the screen.
What makes Brood War so great to watch is the spectacle of it all. There's a lot going on, and it's hard to keep track of it all. However, players don't have much of a hard time seeing it all because each unit is so distinct. They have very distinct shapes, attacks, and sounds. There's even distinct differences in just the way units move around. In Stormgate everything just glides around slowly. There's no tension, and it's hard as a viewer to stay engaged.
I'd say Frost Giant could really use a Samwise Didier right now.
Actually, I hadn't seen this, but while I was watching the trailer I thought the same thing. The untis seem "disjointed" like they are from the same faction but they don't really fit? And also a little hard to follow.
There is 1 thing sc2 does very well which is being fun to watch, and most importantly, very understandable to watch.
Although I will say that part of it could be the unfinished animations, as I saw some "marines" shotting nothing. But of course there's tstill the unit look
I'm a pretty religious Brood War viewer, and I know that it takes a while to understand the meta of a game. However, I can't can tell a thing of what's going on in Stormgate from watching gameplay videos today. All I see is two armies of different sized soldiers line up, and then stand around shooting each other for a while. Everything beyond that is just a mess. There's just nothing characteristic about any of the characters, sounds, or animations. It's just a flurry of particle effects everywhere. Add video encoding on top of that, and it's just one big blah on the screen.
What makes Brood War so great to watch is the spectacle of it all. There's a lot going on, and it's hard to keep track of it all. However, players don't have much of a hard time seeing it all because each unit is so distinct. They have very distinct shapes, attacks, and sounds. There's even distinct differences in just the way units move around. In Stormgate everything just glides around slowly. There's no tension, and it's hard as a viewer to stay engaged.
I'd say Frost Giant could really use a Samwise Didier right now.
Agreed, I found that more pronounced with the human faction than the Infernals, and partly I put that down to not having actually played the game too, but I don’t think they’re distinct enough as an observer.
My kid had a passing interest in SC and gave it a go as I was watching Katowice one time and I could pretty easily go ‘ok the robot spider dudes are called Stalkers, the laser giraffes are Collosus’ and he knew exactly what I was talking about.
With Stormgate it’s like ‘ok the infantry is called x, the slightly bigger infantry is called y, the slightly smaller infantry is called…’
I only watched one hour (beastyqt stream) and I have the same critic/complaint like that reddit post. I couldn't see/understand a thing when there is a fight.
his explanation why bw is/was great to watch fits perfectly. same goes for my favourite rts game wc3.
On December 07 2023 05:06 Hider wrote: Having watched plenty of streamer video play, I think I get some sense what Frostgiant is going for;
* Quality of live improvements to 1v1 + slow down the gameplay a bit + increased defenders advantage to make it more forgiving/less apm-demanding while still leaving room for basic micro. The intention is that this will allow former RTS/competitive minded players to get a competitive RTS experience without being as stressed as in Sc2.
* Create a strong coop experience for casuals.
Leaving aside coop because I know nothing about this; can their 1v1 theory become succesful? Regardless of them making the game somewhat easier to play mechanically and more forgiving, there is still a knowledge learning barrier. People do need to spend effort learning.
Usually the way you get people to commit to effort is because they can see a big reward at the end. "If I practice these things then I can maybe one day become X good which will be awesome".
Players can be motivated/hyped when served amazing gameplay/highlights. This is the case in all games, e.g. Fortnide, LOL, Dota, CS:GO, Overwatch etc. When I watch Clem play I get motivated and makes me want to play Starcraft 2 and git gut, even though I don't have time to do so.
The question is - and I think we will get a much better idea on this in the coming days/weeks - does Stormgate have that? Is there anything with Stormgate where you desperately want to master certain aspects of the game - because doing so will be very fulfilling?
For me, what really motivates me to git gut is the fact that I want to demolish my friends in the most painful way possible and they want to do the same to me. That made me the better SC2 player than anyone I know personally and it will do the same in Stormgate as long as enough of my friends pick it up, too.
You can do that in other games as well. What would make people want to invest extra resources to do that in Stormgate? Is the mechanics or strategy that much more interesting than in other games?
Obviously. Like I mentioned it depends on the general traction of the game if we (friends and me) pick it up. I was just posting to your point of "what motivates to git gut". We are are pretty game diverse group but it's only ever one game per genre, so it'll be either Stormgate, Zerospace or we stick with SC2
EDIT: I just saw the YT of Lowko playing and he mentioned a bunch of noob friendly mechanics which gives you a lot more room to micro instead of marco and more time to make plays for the highlight reels
I haven't followed Stormgate in the alpha and so on but I've watched a couple of YT videos and boy, that game looks clunky, messy and I have no freaking idea on whats going on. Seems like the micro part/APM is non existant here.
Frost Giant responded in the reddit thread i posted.
Gerald Villoria - Communications Director
Just popping in here to let you all know we’re reading this feedback and discussing it internally—we see it too and agree that this is an area that needs attention. Please keep sharing your thoughts as it’s been helpful in our discussions.
i played for 30 min more or less and didn't have any "desire" to play more. Fully agree with opinion on here from reddit. Very accurate feedback. Plus you can't change hotkeys (still). But anyways, finger crossed for SG.
EPT
