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On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s.  I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race.
It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned.
One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase.
That will also give content creators to use as well.
No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports.
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On June 03 2026 08:20 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s. I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race. It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned. One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase. That will also give content creators to use as well. No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports.
But all that happens organically (nowadays) if the game is good.
I guess a strategic point of comparison would be Valve / Dota 2 in the early days, where they tossed a 1.6 million dollar tournament onto effectively a game in late beta. The difference there is/was the 'late beta' was more a port of an existing and popular game than it was new IP and new ideas. People already knew dota was fun, there was interest and and existing market to capture from both HoN and LoL, so even though throwing a multimillion dollar international tournament with an obscene (for the time) prize pool was a gamble as much as an investment, it still seems a lot more sane of a gamble than Stormgate planning for Esports before proving they can hold more concurrent players than Sc2 twitch streams can hold viewers.
Dota2 had some level of numbers to back it up in terms of playerbase and viewership, and behind that they still had Valve being financially able to take the hit if their gamble failed. I don't see the same level of risk management for Frost Giant.
I do think it's reasonable to say Valve/Dota2 needed the gamble to slingshot its esports (so 'gambling on esports' isnt always bad), but they had something of a foundation to slingshot from.
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On June 03 2026 08:44 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 08:20 ETisME wrote:On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s. I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race. It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned. One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase. That will also give content creators to use as well. No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports. But all that happens organically (nowadays) if the game is good. I guess a strategic point of comparison would be Valve / Dota 2 in the early days, where they tossed a 1.6 million dollar tournament onto effectively a game in late beta. The difference there is/was the 'late beta' was more a port of an existing and popular game than it was new IP and new ideas. People already knew dota was fun, there was interest and and existing market to capture from both HoN and LoL, so even though throwing a multimillion dollar international tournament with an obscene (for the time) prize pool was a gamble as much as an investment, it still seems a lot more sane of a gamble than Stormgate planning for Esports before proving they can hold more concurrent players than Sc2 twitch streams can hold viewers. Dota2 had some level of numbers to back it up in terms of playerbase and viewership, and behind that they still had Valve being financially able to take the hit if their gamble failed. I don't see the same level of risk management for Frost Giant. I do think it's reasonable to say Valve/Dota2 needed the gamble to slingshot its esports (so 'gambling on esports' isnt always bad), but they had something of a foundation to slingshot from.
Valve tied the game's monetization to tournaments with compendium.
I don't know how it works today, but during the first Internationals, people bought compendiums to get rare skins and stuff, and part of the money went to the prize pool.
I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure it sold pretty good.
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On June 03 2026 08:44 Fleetfeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 08:20 ETisME wrote:On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s. I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race. It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned. One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase. That will also give content creators to use as well. No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports. But all that happens organically (nowadays) if the game is good. I guess a strategic point of comparison would be Valve / Dota 2 in the early days, where they tossed a 1.6 million dollar tournament onto effectively a game in late beta. The difference there is/was the 'late beta' was more a port of an existing and popular game than it was new IP and new ideas. People already knew dota was fun, there was interest and and existing market to capture from both HoN and LoL, so even though throwing a multimillion dollar international tournament with an obscene (for the time) prize pool was a gamble as much as an investment, it still seems a lot more sane of a gamble than Stormgate planning for Esports before proving they can hold more concurrent players than Sc2 twitch streams can hold viewers. Dota2 had some level of numbers to back it up in terms of playerbase and viewership, and behind that they still had Valve being financially able to take the hit if their gamble failed. I don't see the same level of risk management for Frost Giant. I do think it's reasonable to say Valve/Dota2 needed the gamble to slingshot its esports (so 'gambling on esports' isnt always bad), but they had something of a foundation to slingshot from.
I am not disagreeing, but they were probably needed it for the investors. Esport is most likely part of the initial pitch, and so some fundings would have allocated to it.
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On June 03 2026 08:20 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s. I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race. It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned. One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase. That will also give content creators to use as well. No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports.
Yeah, you're right about their motivation, but it is also a risk.
Esports is basically an extended marketing. If a game gets popular as an esports, it gets media coverage and additional sales as a result.
If a game fails as an esports (for example, Heroes of the Storm), you just waste money down the drain.
You could spend the same money on the more conventional marketing and get more from it.
With the state of the game it had (placeholder models, missing lighting, desynced animations, terrible sound mixing, etc.), it was never a risk. It was a guaranteed shot in their foot.
They spent tons of money to show everyone how bad their game was.
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You're also right about investors, but it was probably on FG too.
Tim promised them SC3 with insane revenue to get the investment, but he probably put the accent on e-sports himself.
He could push it as a campaign+co-op game, because it is what made SC2 profitable.
E-sports is a money sink, both for sponsors and publishers. You have to be very precise with it.
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On June 03 2026 09:00 ChillFlame wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2026 08:44 Fleetfeet wrote:On June 03 2026 08:20 ETisME wrote:On June 03 2026 05:44 ChillFlame wrote:On June 02 2026 22:51 JimmyJRaynor wrote:time for some positive vibes guys! what a great match! great commentary! https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2404647033i have some weird/sad news though guys. Beomulf's twitter account is gone? I hope he is ok. Any how, guys, just for discussion purposes, who do you guys think were and are the top 3 Stormgate commentators of all time? I put this question to ChatGPT and it gave me: Artosis, Tasteless and Rotterdam. I had to contest this conclusion and after some back and forth here is what the AI said. So if we're grading on actual Stormgate mileage, not RTS fame, my list would be:
BeoMulf
PiG
Nathanias What 4th commentator would you add to create the Mount Rushmore of Stormgate Commentators? I love listening to Beomulf commentated Stormgate matches while I'm playing SC2 1v1s. I know we're on tl.net, but the concept of tournaments, commentators, and pro-player-oriented balance before the game is even out seems so bizarre to me. IMO, esports must grow organically. If a game is interesting to compete in, people will. By spending money on esports before shipping the game, you divert funding from more important areas. The game will be less developed, and players will be less likely to compete in it. By spending money on esports, you make it worse for esports. FG spent a shit ton of money on tournaments while they still had ~30% of the game done. They had fucking tournaments with placeholder models. Then they ran out of money, made a surprised Pikachu face, cried a bit, and wrapped the whole thing. Like, no shit. You spend money to show your game to a large audience, people see fucking rocket shooting deers, and refuse to buy it. If I didn't know better, I'd say it was sabotage. Regarding the commentators, I think folks here are totally right. Some people highlight the same game for 20 years, some people try to jump on the new thing to boost their career. There's nothing inherently bad with it. There's always a risk. If a game you jump into fails, it might also drag you with it. Now the bizarre part. Do you remember random race in SG? Because it didn't have one. If you lock random, your opponent sees your race at the start. Do you know why it is as it is? Because SC2 ladder gods jumped in, said it was terrible and needs to be changed, then they left. Again. Players from another game pushed a change to the ladder, and then they left. And the devs fucking listened to them and kept the change AFTER they left. I still can't comprehend this to the full extent of its surreal fuckedupishness. The moment I saw random isn't random in this game, I understood that the ladder will be terribly boring, because people who made this call are not capable of making something fun. P.S. Edit. I play(ed) T in SC2, and I always look forward to TvR. Random players usually cheese, so I must count cheeses from all matchups, do an early scout, and branch my build accordingly, or even improvise something out of the box. But they might also not cheese. You know what it is? It's called strategy. You gather intel, think, create a strategy, and then execute it. Usually, players who hate random don't like to think, they like to "operate" a build order. By removing a random race from RTS, you further remove "S" from it and encourage a mindless build order race. It's understandable why they want the esports scene to be preplanned. One is to get the pro to start putting time in and stream it, that way they can market to an existing fanbase. That will also give content creators to use as well. No doubt they also want to sell it so that the investors feel justified to spend so much and getting a piece of esports. But all that happens organically (nowadays) if the game is good. I guess a strategic point of comparison would be Valve / Dota 2 in the early days, where they tossed a 1.6 million dollar tournament onto effectively a game in late beta. The difference there is/was the 'late beta' was more a port of an existing and popular game than it was new IP and new ideas. People already knew dota was fun, there was interest and and existing market to capture from both HoN and LoL, so even though throwing a multimillion dollar international tournament with an obscene (for the time) prize pool was a gamble as much as an investment, it still seems a lot more sane of a gamble than Stormgate planning for Esports before proving they can hold more concurrent players than Sc2 twitch streams can hold viewers. Dota2 had some level of numbers to back it up in terms of playerbase and viewership, and behind that they still had Valve being financially able to take the hit if their gamble failed. I don't see the same level of risk management for Frost Giant. I do think it's reasonable to say Valve/Dota2 needed the gamble to slingshot its esports (so 'gambling on esports' isnt always bad), but they had something of a foundation to slingshot from. Valve tied the game's monetization to tournaments with compendium. I don't know how it works today, but during the first Internationals, people bought compendiums to get rare skins and stuff, and part of the money went to the prize pool. I don't know the exact numbers, but I'm sure it sold pretty good.
They did eventually, yeah, but not at first. TI 1 and 2 was just valve-funded. They didn't have crowdfunding for the prize pool.
TI3 had compendium purchases and nearly doubled the prize pool, then TI4 went berserk and added north of 8m to the prize pool, but all of that is well outside the scope of what I'm talking about. Initially it was Valve effectively gambling on esports, which obviously has since paid off, and imo was a much much more sensible gamble than anything FG dumped into esports.
That said, ETisME is probably correct that some of the gamble cost was offloaded to investors, so it's hard to say how much it actually cost FG.
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EPT
