• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:37
CET 13:37
KST 21:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)35
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which foreign pros are considered the best? Gypsy to Korea
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Provigil(modafinil) pills Cape Town+27 81 850 2816
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1539 users

Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 297

Forum Index > General Games
6072 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 295 296 297 298 299 304 Next
Kneeb4r
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada19 Posts
December 06 2025 01:03 GMT
#5921
On December 06 2025 08:31 WombaT wrote:
Subreddit regulars (I was active under a different username, so I recognise) making TL accounts to continue to moan, or argue with Spartak seems to me excessive.

People are calling out bad behaviour for what it is. Maybe he should have behaved in a way that didn't alienate an entire fanbase.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
December 06 2025 01:16 GMT
#5922
On December 06 2025 10:03 Kneeb4r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2025 08:31 WombaT wrote:
Subreddit regulars (I was active under a different username, so I recognise) making TL accounts to continue to moan, or argue with Spartak seems to me excessive.

People are calling out bad behaviour for what it is. Maybe he should have behaved in a way that didn't alienate an entire fanbase.

Yes, and my point is it was called out. Forever ago. Indeed, probably longer still.

There comes a point where it’s borderline unhinged.

Migrating to TL solely to bitch about a game that’s been DoA for months and argue with Spartak is ridiculous.

There’s nothing new under the sun here, there’s no new info like all of the stuff mentioned in the past few pages has been discussed thoroughly in this thread.

Which people would know was the case if they’d actually been active TL participants for any amount of time.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17231 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-06 01:37:19
December 06 2025 01:36 GMT
#5923
On December 06 2025 07:50 Miragee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2025 07:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 06 2025 07:38 Miragee wrote:
On December 06 2025 07:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 06 2025 05:22 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Moderation is an important job. With no moderation, things on the Internet descend very quickly into spam, harassment, and total chaos. But it is precisely because the job is so important that it shouldn't be arbitrary.

is it though? how much are the MODs paid?

In this world, the most important jobs are mostly badly paid or not paid at all. :<

$187B last year. if video game MOD is important then some of that cash should go to the MOD. if not, the publisher places zero value on the job.
you get what you pay for.

You measure importance solely in how much profit was made?

publishers and developers who pay $0 for community engagement people get what they pay for.
On December 06 2025 10:16 WombaT wrote:
Migrating to TL solely to bitch about a game that’s been DoA for months and argue with Spartak is ridiculous.

meh, lighten up and enjoy the white noise.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jeremy Reimer
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1112 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-06 01:59:57
December 06 2025 01:54 GMT
#5924
On December 06 2025 05:52 _Spartak_ wrote:
As I said, subreddit moderators can't delete comments. Unless reddit changed things recently, you can still see comments/posts removed by a moderator by going through the post history of the user. And if we ever removed any of your posts/comments, you will get a DM with the explanation of why it was removed and a link to the post that was removed. So, as an active member of the subreddit, which of your posts/comments got removed for being critical of the game? That should be easy to get an example of since you are adamant that we are regularly removing negative comments and you have obviously been nothing but negative about the game for a long time.


Well, the only post of mine that ever got removed was the most recent Tim Morten LinkedIn post, and the linked reasoning was just a copy/paste of the sub's rules, which didn't explain anything. But you did later explain in the thread of the next, similar post that it was because of "bad faith paraphrasing" in the title, which didn't even make any sense. Like, newspapers and websites paraphrase things in titles all the time. It's kind of the fun part of writing articles, which is why editors usually steal that part of the job.

But in any case, it's not that important.


The change in our attitude towards moderation is also fictional. If anything, I have been slightly less lenient on some repeat offenders recently. Moderation was even more lax in the past. The subreddit always had plenty of negative posts and comments. It is just that recently 99% of comments are negative, instead of it swinging between 30-70% negative as in the past. The change is due to what happened with the game, not because we used to remove negative stuff and for some reason we stopped doing so in the last year.


Well, look, you might be right about this. I haven't combed the history of the sub exhaustively to be able to prove it one way or another, and it makes sense that there would be many more negative posts after the game's spectacular failure (and, I'll point out one last time, the spectacularly bad faith actions of Frost Giant's management, particularly Tim Morten)

Perhaps we are all just beating a dead horse here. Except for the fact that the horse itself stubbornly refuses to completely die, which is just confusing for everybody involved.
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." -- Carl Sagan
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17231 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-06 02:14:47
December 06 2025 02:14 GMT
#5925
On December 06 2025 10:16 WombaT wrote:
Migrating to TL solely to bitch about a game that’s been DoA for months and argue with Spartak is ridiculous.

also, these orgs constantly promote how their game will be some amazing life altering experience. when that doesn't happen people get angry. Even when it does happen and the game is great you get that one in a million Avilo type person who will do crazy things. if you want to avoid this possibility do not promote video games as some great life experience to 100s of millions of people.

these companies are right there to collect the profit.. they also have to be there to accept the blow back from unhinged thrill seekers who were told their thrill seeking aspirations would be fulfilled by your entertainment product you charge $$$ for.

Frost Giant and its agents made all kinds of lofty promises knowing full well Morten already fucked C&C into the ground 10 years earlier.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Fleetfeet
Profile Blog Joined May 2014
Canada2628 Posts
December 06 2025 04:33 GMT
#5926
On December 06 2025 10:03 Kneeb4r wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2025 08:31 WombaT wrote:
Subreddit regulars (I was active under a different username, so I recognise) making TL accounts to continue to moan, or argue with Spartak seems to me excessive.

People are calling out bad behaviour for what it is. Maybe he should have behaved in a way that didn't alienate an entire fanbase.


Anything I've read from Spartak here seemed AT WORST like something from a normal dude and not a normal dude acting as a moderator. Do you have any evidence that Spartak singlehandedly alienated an entire fanbase BEFORE that fanbase turned to realizing Stormgate was never gonna get there? From my perspective, y'all just lumped Spartak on to the other side of the fence and then said "See? OBVIOUSLY he's evil, he's on the other side of the fence!"
Kneeb4r
Profile Joined September 2012
Canada19 Posts
December 06 2025 04:52 GMT
#5927
On December 06 2025 13:33 Fleetfeet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2025 10:03 Kneeb4r wrote:
On December 06 2025 08:31 WombaT wrote:
Subreddit regulars (I was active under a different username, so I recognise) making TL accounts to continue to moan, or argue with Spartak seems to me excessive.

People are calling out bad behaviour for what it is. Maybe he should have behaved in a way that didn't alienate an entire fanbase.


Anything I've read from Spartak here seemed AT WORST like something from a normal dude and not a normal dude acting as a moderator. Do you have any evidence that Spartak singlehandedly alienated an entire fanbase BEFORE that fanbase turned to realizing Stormgate was never gonna get there? From my perspective, y'all just lumped Spartak on to the other side of the fence and then said "See? OBVIOUSLY he's evil, he's on the other side of the fence!"

People were sick of him before the devs released 0.6 as their 1.0. That's why he is openly mocked on other platforms. If it was just about the game being bad people would just blame FGS and Tim "The Charlatan" Morten.
_Spartak_
Profile Joined October 2013
Turkey442 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-06 06:33:21
December 06 2025 06:31 GMT
#5928
The important context is that the "people" you are talking about are like 10 obsessive haters. Not that bothered to be "mocked" by them lol. On that note, maybe you can ask them to provide some proof of their criticism of the game being suppressed by me since you can't seem to provide any yourself.
Miragee
Profile Joined December 2009
8627 Posts
December 06 2025 10:57 GMT
#5929
On December 06 2025 10:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2025 07:50 Miragee wrote:
On December 06 2025 07:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 06 2025 07:38 Miragee wrote:
On December 06 2025 07:36 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
On December 06 2025 05:22 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Moderation is an important job. With no moderation, things on the Internet descend very quickly into spam, harassment, and total chaos. But it is precisely because the job is so important that it shouldn't be arbitrary.

is it though? how much are the MODs paid?

In this world, the most important jobs are mostly badly paid or not paid at all. :<

$187B last year. if video game MOD is important then some of that cash should go to the MOD. if not, the publisher places zero value on the job.
you get what you pay for.

You measure importance solely in how much profit was made?

publishers and developers who pay $0 for community engagement people get what they pay for.


Ok, I can agree with that.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17231 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-06 14:34:50
December 06 2025 14:33 GMT
#5930
i love watching the old stuff. its fun to play this in the background while i'm SC2 laddering.

so much hope! so much excitement! LOL.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Gargonus
Profile Joined October 2025
24 Posts
December 08 2025 13:34 GMT
#5931
Another post removed by the mods. That's sad.

However today is monday, I wonder if someone will post Tim's weekly rambling, and if that post will get deleted.
THIRD_DEGREE_
Profile Joined July 2025
United States19 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-08 14:03:36
December 08 2025 14:03 GMT
#5932
On December 06 2025 04:42 Jeremy Reimer wrote:

The fact that you don't silence criticism now doesn't mean you didn't silence criticism in the past, back when it had more impact. Nobody cares about the game or about the sub now, so it doesn't really matter what you do.

I remember you aggressively deleting any comments (and sometimes even banning entire accounts) that questioned whether or not voidlegacy was actually Tim Morten. That was a big deal, because voidlegacy often set the tone for the entire sub. Later, when it was 99.9999% proven that voidlegacy actually was Tim Morten, you still deleted some of the posts that brought it up.

So there's that.



DON-ILYA's account was banned, not just from /r/Stormgate, but from all of Reddit. Because of this, all his posts were mass-deleted, which seemed particularly draconian to me and not at all deserved.


Anyone can look through Spartak’s comment history over the past few years and draw their own conclusions about how those interactions played out.

You brought up a great point earlier. it’s difficult to “prove” the existence of something that was removed (removal is also effectively deletion); that’s just how Reddit works (I agree is a massive downside of the platform). The lack of a screenshot doesn’t mean the experience didn’t happen, especially when multiple users describe similar patterns.

That's a shame about DON -- he had some pretty solid gameplay breakdowns from his early EA experience.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland26225 Posts
December 08 2025 14:23 GMT
#5933
On December 08 2025 22:34 Gargonus wrote:
Another post removed by the mods. That's sad.

However today is monday, I wonder if someone will post Tim's weekly rambling, and if that post will get deleted.

What was deleted?

Far as I can tell it’s modded pretty reasonably. I mean Tim’s LinkedIn adventures are all there for everyone to peruse, amongst many a negative thread. Amongst ‘hey let’s post the player count for the 1000th’ time

What’s the issue here?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Jeremy Reimer
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1112 Posts
December 08 2025 15:19 GMT
#5934
On December 08 2025 23:23 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2025 22:34 Gargonus wrote:
Another post removed by the mods. That's sad.

However today is monday, I wonder if someone will post Tim's weekly rambling, and if that post will get deleted.

What was deleted?


It was a post asking about the upcoming roadmap. It linked to the last roadmap that Frost Giant shared.

Not everyone follows the whole saga closely, and the thread had some good information about all the known facts about the current development situation and planned patch.

But I guess maybe it wasn't in "good faith" enough or something, so it got nuked from orbit, and now nobody can get this information.


Far as I can tell it’s modded pretty reasonably. I mean Tim’s LinkedIn adventures are all there for everyone to peruse, amongst many a negative thread. Amongst ‘hey let’s post the player count for the 1000th’ time

What’s the issue here?


The issue is the randomness and the seemingly arbitrary nature of deletions.

Tim Morten LinkedIn posts? Fine, allowed.

Tim Morten LinkedIn posts but the post title isn't deferential enough? Deleted.
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." -- Carl Sagan
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17231 Posts
December 08 2025 15:39 GMT
#5935
On December 09 2025 00:19 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
The issue is the randomness and the seemingly arbitrary nature of deletions.
Tim Morten LinkedIn posts? Fine, allowed.
Tim Morten LinkedIn posts but the post title isn't deferential enough? Deleted.

dawg, is this naivete act a troll?

My guy, some clown is modding the reddit. This ain't a computer science seminar. We aren't solving for an eigenvector. This is video games. This is giant megacorps syphoning money from impulsive, thrill seekers engaging in an unhealthy habit.

So dude, just relax, and enjoy the stupidity. Don't play video games expecting objectivity and scientific rigour.

The reddit is in the same state as the revenue stream of the game it covers. Its borked.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jeremy Reimer
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1112 Posts
December 08 2025 15:53 GMT
#5936
On December 09 2025 00:39 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 09 2025 00:19 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
The issue is the randomness and the seemingly arbitrary nature of deletions.
Tim Morten LinkedIn posts? Fine, allowed.
Tim Morten LinkedIn posts but the post title isn't deferential enough? Deleted.

dawg, is this naivete act a troll?

My guy, some clown is modding the reddit. This ain't a computer science seminar. We aren't solving for an eigenvector. This is video games. This is giant megacorps syphoning money from impulsive, thrill seekers engaging in an unhealthy habit.


Ironically, when you're programming a 3D game engine, you're often solving for an eigenvector.


So dude, just relax, and enjoy the stupidity. Don't play video games expecting objectivity and scientific rigour.

The reddit is in the same state as the revenue stream of the game it covers. Its borked.


The status of moderation on the Stormgate subreddit is not that important, obviously. There are many more important things in the world. "It's just video games, lol!" is fine, but it's also needlessly nihilistic. One can find a more useful place to stand between these two extremes.

Describing things as they exist and not misrepresenting them is still important, no matter the context.
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." -- Carl Sagan
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada17231 Posts
Last Edited: 2025-12-08 16:21:20
December 08 2025 16:13 GMT
#5937
On December 09 2025 00:53 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Ironically, when you're programming a 3D game engine, you're often solving for an eigenvector.

Eugene Fiume was my favourite graphics prof. a pioneer in 3D graphic rendering. i learned the bresenham algorithm in his class.

if video games ain't paying you what you're worth and you have a deep math background i suggest passing the first 2 actuarial exams. you'll get an analyst job at a P&C Insurance Consultant instantly.

On December 09 2025 00:53 Jeremy Reimer wrote:
Describing things as they exist and not misrepresenting them is still important, no matter the context.

true. i'm not about to call Spartak a liar! the man has done an amazing job keeping the RTS genre growing and thriving. During Tasteless' esports lifetime achievement award speech he said he felt bad because he thought Spartak deserved it.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Jeremy Reimer
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada1112 Posts
December 08 2025 17:15 GMT
#5938
New Tim Postmortem is up.

As usual, there's nothing of substance. Tim's grateful for the suggestions from last week's post, and as a result has "a handful of new conversations in progress".

If only you could pay developers with conversations, Tim would be golden!
"Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." -- Carl Sagan
Gargonus
Profile Joined October 2025
24 Posts
December 08 2025 17:46 GMT
#5939
This speaks to the scarcity of capital


The audacity of saying that after burning $40M to the ground.
ScoutWBF
Profile Joined April 2005
Germany634 Posts
December 08 2025 18:13 GMT
#5940
On December 09 2025 02:15 Jeremy Reimer wrote:

If only you could pay developers with conversations, Tim would be golden!



Can always pay them in exposure
Prev 1 295 296 297 298 299 304 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RongYI Cup
11:00
Playoffs Day 3
TriGGeR vs MaruLIVE!
RotterdaM760
ComeBackTV 630
WardiTV533
IndyStarCraft 208
Rex145
BRAT_OK 107
LamboSC271
3DClanTV 66
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 760
IndyStarCraft 208
Rex 145
BRAT_OK 107
LamboSC2 71
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 5747
Rain 3207
Horang2 1202
Flash 1193
Hyuk 630
Shuttle 530
Light 336
BeSt 332
EffOrt 259
Mong 249
[ Show more ]
Soulkey 228
Pusan 208
Last 174
Zeus 170
ZerO 162
Soma 158
Hyun 158
Rush 139
Snow 122
hero 101
Mind 56
Barracks 44
ToSsGirL 34
Shinee 27
JYJ 26
Hm[arnc] 23
Free 18
Noble 15
GoRush 15
sorry 15
scan(afreeca) 14
910 13
Nal_rA 9
Icarus 9
SilentControl 9
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
Gorgc4510
XaKoH 536
Fuzer 133
XcaliburYe127
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2239
zeus1058
x6flipin577
edward64
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor114
Other Games
Liquid`RaSZi1499
B2W.Neo1035
crisheroes273
Sick223
Pyrionflax180
Mew2King115
ToD98
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• iHatsuTV 5
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 8
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota259
League of Legends
• Jankos1780
• Stunt798
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
20h 24m
HomeStory Cup
1d 23h
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
HomeStory Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
HomeStory Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-26
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.