On December 19 2024 06:11 Garrl wrote: I'm sorry? Who is going to invest in an already launched live service game with an average of 72 players?
What we know is that they struggled to secure investments before EA. And after EA their valuation should have dropped significantly.
However, I guess it's still technically possibly for them to secure $5-10M more although they are giving up huge chunks of of the entire company.
I am not sure what kind of cope you are smoking with.
$5-$10m investment? How much a copy of stormgate sells? Can you do the math? Like anyone with basic common sense of business is not going to invest in this.
Bussiness people who invest in stock make the dumbest choices imaginably all the time, I see it constantly, so don't underestimate the infinite potential of stupid companies funding stuff like stormgate.
On December 19 2024 06:11 Garrl wrote: I'm sorry? Who is going to invest in an already launched live service game with an average of 72 players?
What we know is that they struggled to secure investments before EA. And after EA their valuation should have dropped significantly.
However, I guess it's still technically possibly for them to secure $5-10M more although they are giving up huge chunks of of the entire company.
I am not sure what kind of cope you are smoking with.
$5-$10m investment? How much a copy of stormgate sells? Can you do the math? Like anyone with basic common sense of business is not going to invest in this.
Giving that Frostgiant previously was valued at significantly more than $30M (since that was what they raised). .
I think what you are confusing though is what I think makes sense and what could happen. I wouldn't recommend investing it, but you never know with VC's - some of these aren't the brightest and falls for smooth talk. We have seen a lot worse investments than that in esports (or other places) than that.
Frostgiant might have been valued at +$100M previously. At this point maybe they can convince some investors they are still worth $20-30M.
At an additional $10M, that may give them runaway for most of next year and hence it's possible that around late summer 2025 they will announce 1.0. That will be its last shot.
On December 19 2024 06:11 Garrl wrote: I'm sorry? Who is going to invest in an already launched live service game with an average of 72 players?
What we know is that they struggled to secure investments before EA. And after EA their valuation should have dropped significantly.
However, I guess it's still technically possibly for them to secure $5-10M more although they are giving up huge chunks of of the entire company.
I am not sure what kind of cope you are smoking with.
$5-$10m investment? How much a copy of stormgate sells? Can you do the math? Like anyone with basic common sense of business is not going to invest in this.
Giving that Frostgiant previously was valued at significantly more than $30M (since that was what they raised). .
I think what you are confusing though is what I think makes sense and what could happen. I wouldn't recommend investing it, but you never know with VC's - some of these aren't the brightest and falls for smooth talk. We have seen a lot worse investments than that in esports (or other places) than that.
Frostgiant might have been valued at +$100M previously. At this point maybe they can convince some investors they are still worth $20-30M.
At an additional $10M, that may give them runaway for most of next year and hence it's possible that around late summer 2025 they will announce 1.0. That will be its last shot.
Its important to note that Frostgiant valued itself at 150 million. It was not an outside valuation.
On December 19 2024 06:11 Garrl wrote: I'm sorry? Who is going to invest in an already launched live service game with an average of 72 players?
What we know is that they struggled to secure investments before EA. And after EA their valuation should have dropped significantly.
However, I guess it's still technically possibly for them to secure $5-10M more although they are giving up huge chunks of of the entire company.
I am not sure what kind of cope you are smoking with.
$5-$10m investment? How much a copy of stormgate sells? Can you do the math? Like anyone with basic common sense of business is not going to invest in this.
Giving that Frostgiant previously was valued at significantly more than $30M (since that was what they raised). .
I think what you are confusing though is what I think makes sense and what could happen. I wouldn't recommend investing it, but you never know with VC's - some of these aren't the brightest and falls for smooth talk. We have seen a lot worse investments than that in esports (or other places) than that.
Frostgiant might have been valued at +$100M previously. At this point maybe they can convince some investors they are still worth $20-30M.
At an additional $10M, that may give them runaway for most of next year and hence it's possible that around late summer 2025 they will announce 1.0. That will be its last shot.
Its important to note that Frostgiant valued itself at 150 million. It was not an outside valuation.
What percentage of the company's total equity do you think they sold when they raised $30M?
We are able to share some good news: BITKRAFT, one of the investors who helped launch Frost Giant Studios, is leading an additional funding round to support our journey. Their continued investment means the world to us, and will help enable us to deliver a solid 1.0 release, which we’re tentatively aiming for in the second half of next year.
FUNDED UNTIL 1.0!
Let's be careful with their wordings. The investors are leading an additional funding round, meaning they haven't secured anything yet.
While it's prudent to be skeptical of PR statements from private companies, the normal reading of this statement is that the funding round has been completed/near completed, with Bitkraft as the largest backer
I think some of the doomers are too out of touch with the gaming industry (or business in general) to realize a few tens of millions of dollars being invested in a disappointing product is actually extremely boring and unremarkable. I sympathize with the RTS fans who genuinely pinned a lot of hope on Stormgate and were disappointed, but I have to roll my eyes at the rubberneckers who are trying to spin a weirdly conspiratorial, scandalous narrative out of a mundane industry story.
Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed that co-op is being deprioritized behind campaign and 1v1. Very curious about their rationale for focusing on 1v1 instead of coop, when these are the LotV guys who made coop and have told us it was the most popular game mode. I thought SG was supposed to be the game where they got to implement all the coop ideas they weren't able to in SC2?
We are able to share some good news: BITKRAFT, one of the investors who helped launch Frost Giant Studios, is leading an additional funding round to support our journey. Their continued investment means the world to us, and will help enable us to deliver a solid 1.0 release, which we’re tentatively aiming for in the second half of next year.
FUNDED UNTIL 1.0!
Let's be careful with their wordings. The investors are leading an additional funding round, meaning they haven't secured anything yet.
While it's prudent to be skeptical of PR statements from private companies, the normal reading of this statement is that the funding round has been completed/near completed, with Bitkraft as the largest backer
I think some of the doomers are too out of touch with the gaming industry (or business in general) to realize a few tens of millions of dollars being invested in a disappointing product is actually extremely boring and unremarkable. I sympathize with the RTS fans who pinned a lot of hope on Stormgate and were disappointed, but I have to roll my eyes at the rubberneckers who are trying to spin a weirdly conspiratorial, scandalous narrative out of an extremely mundane industry story.
Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed that co-op is being deprioritized behind campaign and 1v1. Very curious about their rationale for focusing on 1v1 instead of coop, when these are the LotV guys who made coop and have told us it was the most popular game mode. I thought SG was supposed to be the game where they got to implement all the coop ideas they weren't able to in SC2?
We haven't forgotten the drama with KS and their terminology about"funded to launch" or "year 0" etc, right? Entertainment industry is one of the few which we can actually see how big of the return /failure is. Look at insidious budget and their box office vs something like kraven Not all that surprised about coop being pushed back a bit, they need to get the theme and look right, so campaign gotta take priority. it doesn't even feel like it's part of stormgate worldbuilding right now
On December 20 2024 17:23 Harris1st wrote: I'm honestly glad they can continue developing for a year. I don't know if they can turn the ship around but I'm happy they get to try
Yeah, if they can convince the investors they have a shot at something we don't know yet, and can imagine about, then yes, all the props to them getting that done and get a chance to try for sure.
But given the game's current state, I cannot help to be a debbie downer.
I can try to imagine what they would do with 3v3 and make that a fun mode for a wider audience.
One thing I can say is that 3v3 is much more popular and easier to retain player base if that can get rolling.
I am still with a very active BGH 3v3 community for Starcraft brood war, some of the guys and girls I've known them as a kid since 2002.
It kind of make me wonder if the mechanics are dumbed down more, and the strategic choice you make are more meaningful, and a lot of the fight are more strategically rewarded, that are not purely a reaction based micro battle such as ling bane vs marine/medivac sort of thing going on. Or straight up how fast can you react until a SC2 disruptor shot go off. Yeah, I think that may acquire more audience?
It might make the balancing a lot easier cause in team game RTS, that each unique race can bring something to the table and can be picked up choose to put up a good show. Where in 1v1 the balance is ungodly hard since the best you can do is to keep the balance roughly in the middle for both side. And the moment someone figure something out, the balance is fucked until someone on the other side come up with something.
On December 20 2024 17:23 Harris1st wrote: I'm honestly glad they can continue developing for a year. I don't know if they can turn the ship around but I'm happy they get to try
Tim Morten did a great job making excuses and raising money. These are critical skills in the software industry. The slightly dishevelled look with the slightly hunched over posture is perfect. No one believes a 10% body fat, 6'3" guy in a $4,000 suit making excuses.
You never want to send in a guy who looks, walks, and talks like Henry Cavill when you are making excuses. You use the Henry Cavill looking guys when you want to do the initial sale. When it comes to making excuses the closer you look like George Costanza the more they'll believe you.
this is the end result of people having delusions about sc2 being badly designed, badly balanced, etc. never made any sense to think some cheeks knockoff game was going to make audiences want to play RTS. greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon
On December 20 2024 17:23 Harris1st wrote: I'm honestly glad they can continue developing for a year. I don't know if they can turn the ship around but I'm happy they get to try
Yeah, if they can convince the investors they have a shot at something we don't know yet, and can imagine about, then yes, all the props to them getting that done and get a chance to try for sure.
But given the game's current state, I cannot help to be a debbie downer.
.
Seeing various VC investments over the past 8 years in esports and frequently questioning the investment decisions in relation to the valuation. I have a 100% success record whenever I have a different assesment than VC's. VC's do not have any magical knowledge that the normal plebs don't have access to. Instead, fans have a significantly better understanding of the actual market and consumters than VC's.
On December 20 2024 17:23 Harris1st wrote: I'm honestly glad they can continue developing for a year. I don't know if they can turn the ship around but I'm happy they get to try
Yeah, if they can convince the investors they have a shot at something we don't know yet, and can imagine about, then yes, all the props to them getting that done and get a chance to try for sure.
But given the game's current state, I cannot help to be a debbie downer.
.
Seeing various VC investments over the past 8 years in esports and frequently questioning the investment decisions in relation to the valuation. I have a 100% success record whenever I have a different assesment than VC's. VC's do not have any magical knowledge that the normal plebs don't have access to. Instead, fans have a significantly better understanding of the actual market and consumters than VC's.
Yeah, the previous 8 year was the gravy train tho, the interest rate in US was low low low, now it is high, no one is spree and pray the cash around anymore.
We are able to share some good news: BITKRAFT, one of the investors who helped launch Frost Giant Studios, is leading an additional funding round to support our journey. Their continued investment means the world to us, and will help enable us to deliver a solid 1.0 release, which we’re tentatively aiming for in the second half of next year.
FUNDED UNTIL 1.0!
Let's be careful with their wordings. The investors are leading an additional funding round, meaning they haven't secured anything yet.
Anyway, I'm pretty disappointed that co-op is being deprioritized behind campaign and 1v1. Very curious about their rationale for focusing on 1v1 instead of coop, when these are the LotV guys who made coop and have told us it was the most popular game mode. I thought SG was supposed to be the game where they got to implement all the coop ideas they weren't able to in SC2?
While it's true that with them being the SC2 co-op guys, and having said that co-op was the most profitable gamemode and most popular after the campaign, they know how important it is.
But a big difference is that one of the reasons SC2 co-op was so easy and profitable was because it used mostly pre-existing assets. They had all three campaigns to pull maps, missions, and commanders from. The editor was already fully functional, the UI and all it's features already existed. While in Stormgate they haven't even finished making the first campaign missions, or designing the three races, or the map editor, we don't even have in-game groups or full hotkeys yet
Having a functioning game first, both via campaign, competitive, and customs makes co-op development so much easier. If Frost Giant didn't have any more cash, they'd probably be pushing co-op commanders more. But they have a bit of leeway to work longer on the game, it makes sense to have co-op a lower priority.
On December 21 2024 04:10 shikadisoda wrote: this is the end result of people having delusions about sc2 being badly designed, badly balanced, etc. never made any sense to think some cheeks knockoff game was going to make audiences want to play RTS. greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon
Let's expand our look beyond the niche RTS and the single game franchise Starcraft. Let's look at the entire "action//strategy" genre. The consumers of the great "action//strategy" games over the decades have been extremely loyal to the best games. Super Mario Bros. 3 is a great game. The peak of interst in the game came and went. Around the same time Super Tecmo Bowl, an "action/strategy" title came out for the NES. Super Tecmo Bowl has an active competitive community around it in 2024 some 33 years after its release. Super Tecmo Bowl's competitive community is a bit larger than it was in 2000. The game is growing. LOL.
I think it is really cool how loyal people are to RTS. Let's not dismiss that loyalty with comments like " greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon"
Korean Starcraft is really, super fucking cool and some of the most fun times of my youth were spent in Korean PC Bangs. The buzz and tension in the air is indescribable. Let's not dismiss the Korean PC Bang phenomenon. It was awesome.
Frost Giant is trying to keep that going. This effort will probably fail. At least, they tried man.
On December 21 2024 04:10 shikadisoda wrote: this is the end result of people having delusions about sc2 being badly designed, badly balanced, etc. never made any sense to think some cheeks knockoff game was going to make audiences want to play RTS. greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon
Let's expand our look beyond the niche RTS and the single game franchise Starcraft. Let's look at the entire "action//strategy" genre. The consumers of the great "action//strategy" games over the decades have been extremely loyal to the best games. Super Mario Bros. 3 is a great game. The peak of interst in the game came and went. Around the same time Super Tecmo Bowl, an "action/strategy" title came out for the NES. Super Tecmo Bowl has an active competitive community around it in 2024 some 33 years after its release. Super Tecmo Bowl's competitive community is a bit larger than it was in 2000. The game is growing. LOL.
I think it is really cool how loyal people are to RTS. Let's not dismiss that loyalty with comments like " greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon"
Korean Starcraft is really, super fucking cool and some of the most fun times of my youth were spent in Korean PC Bangs. The buzz and tension in the air is indescribable. Let's not dismiss the Korean PC Bang phenomenon. It was awesome.
Frost Giant is trying to keep that going. This effort will probably fail. At least, they tried man.
What the hell does Tecmo Super Bowl have to do with strategy games? You might as well talk about competitive Tetris. Yes, it's a thing, and yes, the game is old. But what does that have to do with anything related to this thread?
On December 21 2024 04:10 shikadisoda wrote: this is the end result of people having delusions about sc2 being badly designed, badly balanced, etc. never made any sense to think some cheeks knockoff game was going to make audiences want to play RTS. greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon
Let's expand our look beyond the niche RTS and the single game franchise Starcraft. Let's look at the entire "action//strategy" genre. The consumers of the great "action//strategy" games over the decades have been extremely loyal to the best games. Super Mario Bros. 3 is a great game. The peak of interst in the game came and went. Around the same time Super Tecmo Bowl, an "action/strategy" title came out for the NES. Super Tecmo Bowl has an active competitive community around it in 2024 some 33 years after its release. Super Tecmo Bowl's competitive community is a bit larger than it was in 2000. The game is growing. LOL.
I think it is really cool how loyal people are to RTS. Let's not dismiss that loyalty with comments like " greatest RTS game ever made already exists and nobody cares outside of a one-country cultural phenomenon"
Korean Starcraft is really, super fucking cool and some of the most fun times of my youth were spent in Korean PC Bangs. The buzz and tension in the air is indescribable. Let's not dismiss the Korean PC Bang phenomenon. It was awesome.
Frost Giant is trying to keep that going. This effort will probably fail. At least, they tried man.
What the hell does Tecmo Super Bowl have to do with strategy games? You might as well talk about competitive Tetris. Yes, it's a thing, and yes, the game is old. But what does that have to do with anything related to this thread?
I think the point he was trying to get across was quite clear... He's providing examples of action/strategy games that have had dedicated fanbases for decades and how as dead as RTS might ever seem to be there will always be a very fervant fan base for it.
EPT
